Christmas is a pagan holiday?!

[Brian Mc]

As mentioned, in the Bible there is no specific evidence revealed as to the birth date of Jesus ... not even the year of His birth.
Speculation re the circumstances of John (the Baptist's) birth, etc indicates Jesus was born in September.

When I was advised a few months ago of the stellar happening that will depict a birth from a virgin (Virgo) on 23 September, this firmed up what my own leadings have been for the last two years or so.

It also confirms that the deception of Constantine (etc.) who "selected" 25 December to be Christ-Mas was a man made decision NOT some divine revealing to him. Many millions of people have been led to go against Father's will (Who DID NOT REVEAL JESUS' BIRTH DATE ... for His own reasons) & make a "big thing" out of it with presents, partying, Santa, etc ..... whereas, I believe Father wanted Christ Jesus death on the cross & His resurrection to be the "big thing" .... but most of the world don't comply ... PLUS, again, man deceives so, so many by wrongly observing "Good" Friday & 1 1/2 days later (Sunday) His resurrection ..... even though the word of Jesus Himself states ....
Matt 12:40 For even as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth

Because of , frivolity, family gathering etc. Satan's plan of deception is complied with by many, many millions of "believers" rather than "go against" the world's ways & accept what Christ Jesus said.

But Christ Jesus said ....
John 14:23 Jesus answered, If a person [really] loves Me, he will keep My word [obey My teaching]; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home (abode, special dwelling place) with him.

BUT man is given a choice ... to obey or disobey! But the price of disobedience is HIGH.

John 3:16 For God so greatly loved {and} dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

Footnote: When I heard about the stellar display expected on 23 September 2017, visible in Israel & the Middle East, I immediately thought, I was born early morning on September 24 in Australia .... when it is the night of 23 September in Israel ....... I know that Father was drawing me (John 6:44) for all my life but I only "surrendered" when I was 46 ...& it has been a "full on" ride ever since.

 

[Yanni depp]

I happened to read up online that Christmas is a pagan holiday that the Catholic church adopted to convince pagans to join their church. That it actually originally worshiped the Sun God or something like that.

Is it true? And if so, are we not to celebrate Christmas?

This troubles me because I have always looked at Christmas a time of joy, of goodwill, of spending time with family. And even though I didn't grow up that religious, I do recall praying in front of the Christmas tree on Christmas Eve one year to God. And I felt really good doing so, I thought He was listening.

Plus...my family celebrates and meets on Christmas and I don't really get to see the one side of my family until Christmas.

So yeah, what do you think? What is the truth?

Yeah, i read that a lot of the traditions are pagan solstice celebrations, the decorated tree, gift giving, and also they used to sacrifice animals under the mistletoe--not kiss.
But you wanna see your family, then go, its great to see your loved ones, your not celebrating the solstice, so be merry : )

 

[dqhall]

I happened to read up online that Christmas is a pagan holiday that the Catholic church adopted to convince pagans to join their church. That it actually originally worshiped the Sun God or something like that.

Is it true? And if so, are we not to celebrate Christmas?

This troubles me because I have always looked at Christmas a time of joy, of goodwill, of spending time with family. And even though I didn't grow up that religious, I do recall praying in front of the Christmas tree on Christmas Eve one year to God. And I felt really good doing so, I thought He was listening.

Plus...my family celebrates and meets on Christmas and I don't really get to see the one side of my family until Christmas.

So yeah, what do you think? What is the truth?

The pagans do not celebrate a remembrance of Christ's birth. The Santa Claus story got exaggerated after a true life story about a saint who gave gifts to children in remembrance of Christ's teaching people to be charitable.

We do not know the exact day he was born, nor the exact day he died. The Hebrews had a lunar calendar without fixed length years. They occasionally recalculated their New Year to make Passover and Pentecost align with the grain harvest. The first fruits of the grain harvest were offered during the Passover festival and the fullness of the harvest was celebrated during Pentecost. It is important to remember Christ's birth, life, death and resurrection any day of the year.

 

[Shempster]

An analogy:
Let's say that the LGBT community changes the name of their big parade to the "Nice people parade".
They go ahead with all that stuff they do but hold up signs that say "Nice people pride".
That would change nothing. Calling it something different changes nothing but the name.

Easter and Christmas are most certainly pagan holidays. But I would not get too bent up about it. The vast majority of Catholics and Christians as well as much of the un-believing world observes those ancient holidays. I think that will be merely one of the biggest deceptions God will reveal we mistakenly believed when we come face to face with Him. There will be more. He knows that we are highly influenced by our culture and family so I would not see Him wanting to punish us for that.
Let's face it, Satan runs the place so it's no wonder it will be filled with deceptions.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I happened to read up online that Christmas is a pagan holiday that the Catholic church adopted to convince pagans to join their church. That it actually originally worshiped the Sun God or something like that.

Is it true? And if so, are we not to celebrate Christmas?

This troubles me because I have always looked at Christmas a time of joy, of goodwill, of spending time with family. And even though I didn't grow up that religious, I do recall praying in front of the Christmas tree on Christmas Eve one year to God. And I felt really good doing so, I thought He was listening.

Plus...my family celebrates and meets on Christmas and I don't really get to see the one side of my family until Christmas.

So yeah, what do you think? What is the truth?

...on a practical note, Christmas is basically what we are willing to make of it. If we want it to be a day to honor Jesus Christ as Lord by His vicarious birth into the world through Mary, even though we don't know exactly when Jesus was really born, then it will be a day to honor Jesus Christ (along with trees, cards, carols, candy canes and all that stuff). Or, if we want it to be pagan and use it to focus on the Saturnalia and whatnot, then it will be pagan. And if we want to ignore Christmas and treat it like it's just another day, then for that person, it is just another day.

In deciding on whether you're going to 'do' Christmas or not, the question ultimately is: whose world is this? In answering this, we might want to contemplate what the Apostle Paul shared with the Romans back in the day:

Romans 14:5-9​

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat [or candy canes ] does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
​

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Karl.C]

I happened to read up online that Christmas is a pagan holiday that the Catholic church adopted to convince pagans to join their church. That it actually originally worshiped the Sun God or something like that.

Is it true? And if so, are we not to celebrate Christmas?

This troubles me because I have always looked at Christmas a time of joy, of goodwill, of spending time with family. And even though I didn't grow up that religious, I do recall praying in front of the Christmas tree on Christmas Eve one year to God. And I felt really good doing so, I thought He was listening.

Plus...my family celebrates and meets on Christmas and I don't really get to see the one side of my family until Christmas.

So yeah, what do you think? What is the truth?

Like Christmas, the Jewish Passover also happens to fall in a period of Pagan festivities. So it isn't a biggy...just a co-incidence...

And it is true that there is no evidence of early Christians celebrating what we know as Christmas in December. However, there is evidence that early Christians celebrated the incarnation (the conception) in March/April. December just happens to be nine months later. Until modern times (late 20th century), especially in law, the rule of thumb was/is that human existence doesn't occur until "first breath". Thus, it doesn't take any imagination to see the mind shift within Christian society. The fact that Constantine, using his imperial powers made the celebration of Christ's birth a public holiday would have been a help in the shift of social consciousness. The fact that Constantine had to do so by decree evidences that Christmas was no part of the pagan festivities that occurred about the same time (winter solstice festivities).

Now the trimmings are a different matter. Most of which have 100% pagan roots, which is why Christmas as invented in America was so easily commercialised (what the Christian Churches complain about these days). In old times the peasantry wasalways up for any excuse to get drunk and engage in debauchery. The only thing that has really changed is, thanks to unionism's collective bargaining, the peasantry now have a surplus of income to waste on tempoal delights.

--------------------​

Clement of Alexandria (150-215CE) wrote in his length work the Stromateis at 1.21.145...
Clement of Alexandria: Stromata, Book 1

There are those who have determined not only the year of our Lord’s birth, but also the day; and they say that it took place in the 28th year of Augustus, and in the 25th day of [the Egyptian month] Pachon [May 20 in our calendar] … And treating of His Passion, with very great accuracy, some say that it took place in the 16th year of Tiberius, on the 25th of Phamenoth [March 21]; and others on the 25th of Pharmuthi [April 21] and others say that on the 19th of Pharmuthi [April 15] the Savior suffered. Further, others say that He was born on the 24th or 25th of Pharmuthi [April 20 or 21].​

 

[Tetra]

I'm confused... why would it matter if it's a pegan holiday in origin?

 

[kepha31]

Pagan celebrations often coincided with Passover.
Does that make Passover pagan? Of course not.

The Winter Solstice was NOT a Roman Civil holiday until 274 AD. The Emperor Aurelian made December 25th a civil holiday because the Christians were already using it to celebrate the Birth of Jesus and he was trying to detract from the Christian celebration!

None of the Sun Cults used December 25th before then. It appears that the Winter Solstice was originally a CHRISTIAN feast that the pagans tried to paganize, not the other way around.

 

[Karl.C]

I'm confused... why would it matter if it's a organ holiday in origin?

(?) Please articulate your question in comprehensible English.

If the question meant to ask: Do the origins of the Christian festivities matter?

The simple answer is: It matters to puritanical Protestants who think their protests against Christmas are a direct attack on the Papacy in which they can claim victory.

The trouble is, the Papacy had nothing to do with the establishment of December 25th as the birth date of Jesus.

If anything it was a North African thing dating to the earliest days of Christianity, aligned to the idea that the incarnation occurred on the same day as Jesus' death, add nine months and... It was the Byzantium emporer (thus the Eastern Church) than formalised it as a public holiday.

The real quibble in Christianity is the exact day upon which we should celebrate and whether, we as gentiles, should be celebrating on the day of visitation by the three wise men.

Of interest: December 25th is recognised as an approximation by everyone, but it is the agreed date! Whilst the EOC usually celebrate it on January 6th under the Gregorian calendar, that day is in fact December 25th under their calendar (the Julian calendar).

 

[ToBeLoved]

Don we now our gay apparel. Fa la la la.

Gay was happy, before gay was gay. Slang is different language and doesn't change the meaning of words that use another definition.

So feel free to don you now your gay apparel, fa la la la la, la, la, la, la.

 

[Karl.C]

Pagan celebrations often coincided with Passover.
Does that make Passover pagan? Of course not.

The Winter Solstice was NOT a Roman Civil holiday until 274 AD. The Emperor Aurelian made December 25th a civil holiday because the Christians were already using it to celebrate the Birth of Jesus and he was trying to detract from the Christian celebration!

None of the Sun Cults used December 25th before then. It appears that the Winter Solstice was originally a CHRISTIAN feast that the pagans tried to paganize, not the other way around.

That is an account I've encountered before. Did you make it up or have you got authentic, verifiable sources for the ascertain that are acknowledged by recognised authorities?

I'm not questioning your what or dating for Aurelian's decree merely the why. Christianity just wasn't that big an issue to the Romans - except that insignificant minoriity had a tendency to inflame the masses...

 

[kepha31]

I'm confused... why would it matter if it's a organ holiday in origin?

WE HAD IT FIRST!
The Winter Solstice was NOT a Roman Civil holiday until 274 AD. Any encyclopedia will verify this. Constantine was born the same year so he had nothing to do with it. The Emperor Aurelian made December 25th a civil holiday because the Christians were already using it to celebrate the Birth of Jesus and he was trying to detract from the Christian celebration!

None of the Sun Cults used December 25th before then. It appears that the Winter Solstice was originally a CHRISTIAN feast that the pagans tried to paganize, not the other way around.

 

[Tetra]

(?) Please articulate your question in comprehensible English.

If the question meant to ask: Do the origins of the Christian festivities matter?

The simple answer is: It matters to puritanical Protestants who think their protests against Christmas are a direct attack on the Papacy in which they can claim victory.

The trouble is, the Papacy had nothing to do with the establishment of December 25th as the birth date of Jesus.

If anything it was a North African thing dating to the earliest days of Christianity, aligned to the idea that the incarnation occurred on the same day as Jesus' death, add nine months and... It was the Byzantium emporer (thus the Eastern Church) than formalised it as a public holiday.

The real quibble in Christianity is the exact day upon which we should celebrate and whether, we as gentiles, should be celebrating on the day of visitation by the three wise men.

Of interest: December 25th is recognised as an approximation by everyone, but it is the agreed date! Whilst the EOC usually celebrate it on January 6th under the Gregorian calendar, that day is in fact December 25th under their calendar (the Julian calendar).

I'm on my phone and it auto corrected pegan to organ for some reason. I'm asking... why does the origin even matter? Who cares.

 

[Tetra]

WE HAD IT FIRST!
The Winter Solstice was NOT a Roman Civil holiday until 274 AD. Any encyclopedia will verify this. Constantine was born the same year so he had nothing to do with it. The Emperor Aurelian made December 25th a civil holiday because the Christians were already using it to celebrate the Birth of Jesus and he was trying to detract from the Christian celebration!

None of the Sun Cults used December 25th before then. It appears that the Winter Solstice was originally a CHRISTIAN feast that the pagans tried to paganize, not the other way around.

I'm confused as to why it matters though?

 

[kepha31]

Nobody knows when Jesus was born, but there are clues.
Zechariah was acting as high priest when the birth of St. John the baptizer was announced to him in the Holy of Holies in the Temple. That would have been on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement which falls in late September. St. John was conceived shortly thereafter during Sukkot, the Festival of Booths.

At the Annunciation, the BVM was told that Elizabeth was 6 months pregnant. That would have been in late March. (BTW the feast of the Annunciation is celebrated on March 25th in the Roman Calendar. )

Nine months later Jesus was born sometime in late December.

Now there is an interesting coincidence with all this. St. John would have been born near the Summer Solstice (the longest day of the year) everyday after that would get shorter until the Winter Solstice six months later, which is the shortest day of the year. Every day after that would get longer. In the First Century the Winter Solstice fell on December 25th.

It would be fitting that Jesus would have been born on the shortest day of the year because he is the "Light of the World":

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. (John 8:12)

Everyday after his birth there was more light.
Also St. John the Baptizer said of himself:

He must increase, but I must decrease.” (John 3:30)

Which is exactly what happened to the daylight after their respective births. (This was the point St. Augustine made in his championing the celebration of Jesus' birth on the Winter Solstice).

So despite the objections of some pundits, December 25th is a very reasonable date to celebrate Jesus' birth and not a concession to paganism.
By Art Sippo

 

[RisenInJesus]

I think pretty much anything in this fallen world has pagan connections and/or origins. If one is going to make the decision to avoid celebrating Christmas based on it's possible pagan connections then there are a lot of other things which must be avoided to be consistent. Should Christians stop wearing wedding rings, using the paper money with it's occult symbols, or even using the names of the days of the week which are named after pagan gods?
Believers are called to live in this world, redeem our time here on earth, and be a light for Christ. The motive of one's heart is what makes the difference and I don't believe there is anything wrong with celebrating and rejoicing in the birth of Christ. Actually, I think doing so shows an acknowledgment and gratefulness for the greatest gift God has given us in sending His Son for our salvation and it is a testimony to the world. This brings glory to God over and above paganism.


"Some people have argued that Christians should not celebrate Christmas because it was originally a pagan holiday. Others say that it shouldn’t be celebrated because it is never commanded in Scripture. After all, during the Last Supper, Jesus instructed His followers to commemorate His death, but nowhere does the Bible instruct Christians to commemorate His birth.


Christmas is a time when Christians celebrate and remember Jesus Christ coming into this world to save sinners. December 25 is not necessarily the date that Jesus was born, but this does not detract from the fact that it is very important to remember Jesus and what He did for us. While we are not commanded to celebrate the birth of Christ, we do see precedent in Scripture.4 The angels and shepherds praised God for sending His Son into the world. Christians are definitely permitted to do this, and every day we should thank God for Christ stepping into this world!"
4 Misconceptions About Christmas

 

[Soyeong]

I happened to read up online that Christmas is a pagan holiday that the Catholic church adopted to convince pagans to join their church. That it actually originally worshiped the Sun God or something like that.

Is it true? And if so, are we not to celebrate Christmas?

This troubles me because I have always looked at Christmas a time of joy, of goodwill, of spending time with family. And even though I didn't grow up that religious, I do recall praying in front of the Christmas tree on Christmas Eve one year to God. And I felt really good doing so, I thought He was listening.

Plus...my family celebrates and meets on Christmas and I don't really get to see the one side of my family until Christmas.

So yeah, what do you think? What is the truth?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas as a time of joy, or goodwill, or spending time with family, and rejoicing in our Savior's birth. However, there are many traditions associated with Christmas that do not have their origins based on Christianity. In Deuteronomy 12:31, God did not tell the Israelites to repurpose pagan altars and to make pagan traditions about worshiping Him instead, but rather He said to tear down pagan altars and to not worship Him in the same way that pagans worshiped their god, so it is not just the worship of pagan gods that God found detestable, but also the way that they worshiped their gods.

However, I think a much more important issue than whether we should celebrate certain days as part of human traditions that may or may not have pagan origins is whether we should deprive ourselves of the delight of celebrating the days that God had commanded to be kept. God's holy days are important foreshadows that are extremely rich with teachings about Messiah, about God's plan of redemption, and are rehearsals of what we will be doing during Messiah reign, so we should let no man keep us from the delight of obeying those commands.

 

[Soyeong]

The origin of our celebrations is not the point at all. Christmas, or any other celebration, is what we make of it.

If the goal of our celebration is to honor God, then isn't what God's makes of it more important than what we make of it?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I'm on my phone and it auto corrected pegan to organ for some reason. I'm asking... why does the origin even matter? Who cares.

Basically, some Christians feel that if the day began as a pagan holiday, then it is somehow a spiritually adulterous proposition to say it is ok to celebrate it. In their minds, Christmas represents a merging of anti-thetical intentions and it thus taints the quality of any devotional properties it might have before God. I don't agree with it, but that is the essence of their concern.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[RisenInJesus]

Here is an informative little book written by someone who was formerly in vehement opposition of celebrating Christmas, but has come to a more biblical and balanced perspective realizing that Christmas is a time that can be used to bring good fruit and glory to God.

Christmas Reconsidered: Ralph E. Woodrow: 9780916938130: Amazon.com: Books