Christians, your feelings about non-Christians on CF?

[andy b]

The point is, you as a Christain will live the virtues, you will serve all humanity and you will turn the other cheek. As a Baha'i I will do the same.

I look forward to working with you in our shared Love for God.

Thus what is the point of debate we have?

Regards Tony

Turning the other cheek when struck by a Roman officer was actually a severe act of rebellion in Roman times ....my take on this is if you get hit , hit back harder and next time round but them first .....being a Christian doesn't mean being a door mat

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

The point is, you as a Christain will live the virtues, you will serve all humanity and you will turn the other cheek. As a Baha'i I will do the same.

I look forward to working with you in our shared Love for God.

Thus what is the point of debate we have?

Regards Tony

From the beginning I only questioned your presentation of Christianity and Bahai as being almost the same. You haven't really dealt with that criticism.

 

[Silverback]

There are some non-Christians members on CF who have no interest in converting to Christianity but enjoy the conversations here. As a non-Christian member, I sometimes feel that the many moderators and members would like me to go away. I bought a lifetime membership several years ago, but I wouldn't want to hang around at CF thinking I am adding value to the conversations when maybe I am only an irritant. It is easy to misunderstand or overlook the feelings of others when typing on keyboards.

The forums where non-Christians can participate are called "outreach" forums, and I suppose that "outreach" might not include conversations with people who have shown no interest in conversion over years of membership.

So I was curious what Christians members honestly feel about that.

At first, I thought it was a bad idea, and I avoided responding to there post.

After a short while though I really ceased caring
...for the most part anyway.

However, the Atheist should not get upset when told it's a matter of faith.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Turning the other cheek when struck by a Roman officer was actually a severe act of rebellion in Roman times ....my take on this is if you get hit , hit back harder and next time round but them first .....being a Christian doesn't mean being a door mat

Yes that is your choice.

For a Baha'i it is better to be killed than Kill. At the same time justice is important. How we impart that justice must be given in Love.

Jesus Christ was an example. Christ had all power over life, but sacrificed His. That lesson is a great one.

Regards Tony

 

[Kaon]

I don't mind nonbelievers being here at all. Sometimes nonbelievers ask questions that believers might not think to ask. I find that helpful.

The forum rules here prohibit the typical "internet atheists", who are simply trolls, from being disruptive, but those rules also prohibit believing trolls from being disruptive, so it seems fair enough.

They do?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

From the beginning I only questioned your presentation of Christianity and Bahai as being almost the same. You haven't really dealt with that criticism.

You could give a list of what I have offered that is not compatible. After all it is the Fruits Christ tells us to look for.

If you have another list in mind of subjects I have not raised, you could also compare that list against any argument comparing Judaisim and Christianity and see if it repeats past mistakes.

Regards Tony

 

[cloudyday2]

The only concern is that it is disingenuous to imply Bahai and Christianity are more or less the same with little differences. Oh we both believe in Jesus. We both believe in God. Oh we both believe the resurrection.

It's insincere and just wrong. I have no fear of Christians going to Bahai because it's such a marginal religion that it doesn't even register when we talk about world religions, though it presents itself as such.

I completely understand your feelings, because it is a common way for Christians to feel, and I felt that way when I was a Christian.

 

[cloudyday2]

For all the surface similarities in belief or practice that can be pointed out, there cannot be such compatibility absent the one most important and non-negotiable belief of Christianity--that Christ is God incarnate and there is no other.

Why is that belief important and non-negotiable? There is the gospel story when Jesus asks some disciple who they think he is, and Peter says "you are the Christ, the Son of God". Is that why it is so important?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

The only concern is that it is disingenuous to imply Bahai and Christianity are more or less the same with little differences. Oh we both believe in Jesus. We both believe in God. Oh we both believe the resurrection.

It's insincere and just wrong. I have no fear of Christians going to Bahai because it's such a marginal religion that it doesn't even register when we talk about world religions, though it presents itself as such.

I completely understand your feelings, because it is a common way for Christians to feel, and I felt that way when I was a Christian.

So as per this OP you are concerned because there may be a Love that attracts hearts, that is not named 'Christain', but is as powerful, a Love not of God?

It brings up a good though and I wonder how the Jews saw people becoming followers of Christ in the first few hundred years? Maybe we could just thank those people that chose to follow Christ and put our trust in God to guide all our hearts. I see we do not control God's Faiths.

Regards Tony

 

[Eyes wide Open]

Turning the other cheek when struck by a Roman officer was actually a severe act of rebellion in Roman times ....my take on this is if you get hit , hit back harder and next time round but them first .....being a Christian doesn't mean being a door mat

That makes no sense Andy. Your first interpretation of turning the other cheek is, as you state an act of rebellion, (a peaceful one I might add)
Then you inject what you would do which is an act of retaliation, not peaceful rebellion. Further still you allow your mind to preempt a further scenario where you will act in future at the instigator, thus removing your door mat status. You cant make stuff up to suit your own agenda. Christianity suffers from that enough.

 

[cloudyday2]

Turning the other cheek when struck by a Roman officer was actually a severe act of rebellion in Roman times ....my take on this is if you get hit , hit back harder and next time round but them first .....being a Christian doesn't mean being a door mat

I think there are several points to the "turn the other cheek" teaching:
(1) The Kingdom of Heaven is not like the Kingdom of Earth. Jesus isn't teaching people how to live in the Kingdom of Earth but how to live in the Kingdom of Heaven. The whole point that Jesus was making is that the Kingdom of Earth is worthless and all our efforts should be invested in the Kingdom of Heaven. Being a doormat might not be a recipe for success in the Kingdom of Earth, but it is required for the Kingdom of Heaven. Let people walk all over you in this life with the knowledge that you are preparing yourself and the world for the Kingdom of Heaven.
(2) Jesus often emphasized intentions over actual behaviors. Turning the other cheek means putting the interests of others ahead of your own interests - even when it hurts. Sometimes maybe it is better to tell somebody when they have injured you if that person didn't realize and can become more righteous as a result of your complaint. Other times it might be pointless to complain, and it is better to simply turn the other cheek for another blow. Definitely you shouldn't hit back unless your intention is to BENEFIT the other person. Your goal should never be to benefit yourself by hitting back.

 

[Danthemailman]

Sometimes the non-Christians provide the only sanity to be found on these forums, so my vote is for "stay".

LOL! The insanity seems to come more from "nominal" Christians/make believers.

 

[Albion]

Why is that belief important and non-negotiable?

Because even though we can appreciate the beliefs and practices that different faiths hold more or less in common, and we are thankful that this is so, there comes a point at which the effort to beat all of them down to some uniform statement amounts to denying what makes one or more of them be what they are as a faith. A Christless Christianity, for example, is NOT Christianity.

There is the gospel story when Jesus asks some disciple who they think he is, and Peter says "you are the Christ, the Son of God". Is that why it is so important?

Why is it important to know the identity of the God one worships and follows, or which God is the real one? Really?

 

[FireDragon76]

@Ignatius the Kiwi , it seems that you disagree with the Baha'i religion's desire to include Christianity under its umbrella? This attitude seems to mirror the combative, polemical attitude of many CF members towards Mormons. Probably the concern is that these religions might trick some uninformed Christians into leaving the "true" faith?

Mormons deny fundamental aspects of Christianity. They are essentially polytheists. They only have superficial similarities.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Because even though we can appreciate the beliefs and practices that different faiths hold more or less in common, and we are thankful that this is so, there comes a point at which the effort to beat all of them down to some uniform statement amounts to denying what makes one or more of them be what they are as a faith. A Christless Christianity, for example, is NOT Christianity.

I see there can be no way we can take Christ out of anything that is good, inclusive of all Faiths. How else is Christ the First and the Last, if Christ is not the good we see in all things? If we see good outside of Christ, we are attributing good to another source.

'Christ' is a title given to Jesus. Christ means 'Annointed One'. With Jesus we know through the virgin birth that Jesus was Annointed with the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that is of God and it is the Holy Spirit that is the Good in all things.

May Christ be with you always. As a Baha'i, Christ is always in my thoughts.

Regards Tony

 

[Albion]

I see there can be no way we can take Christ out of anything that is good, inclusive of all Faiths. How else is Christ the First and the Last, if Christ is not the good we see in all things? If we see good outside of Christ, we are attributing good to another source.

'Christ' is a title given to Jesus. Christ means 'Annointed One'. With Jesus we know through the virgin birth that Jesus was Annointed with the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that is of God and it is the Holy Spirit that is the Good in all things.

May Christ be with you always. As a Baha'i, Christ is always in my thoughts.

Regards Tony

So you see that we have different gods, which in turn means that despite all that our two faiths may have in common, what separates them is of fundamental importance and ought not to be denied or papered over in any effort to promote harmony or mutual respect.

We can have that...without trying to make out that there isn't anything critical that distinguishes one religion from the other.

 

[RichardY]

Striking Turning the other cheek. I think it depends how it is done.

If it's done in the way, of "I am defenceless(stated or not), strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the Darkside will be complete." Then not so good. A Socratic troll. I know nothing Mr Fawlty.

If it's done in the way of walking 2 miles when being asked for 1. More disarming of "enemies", which I suppose depends.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

So you see that we have different gods, which in turn means that despite all that our two faiths may have in common, what separates them is of fundamental importance and ought not to be denied or papered over in any effort to promote harmony or mutual respect.

We can have that...without trying to make out that there isn't anything critical that distinguishes one religion from the other.

The key here is that I do not see a different God. You have chosen that path.

I am offering that nothing is the Word of God can separate Gods Faiths, they are in harmony. I am not saying man has not made many interpretations that have caused division.

Christ foretold of a Day when God would be One and His Name One and Christ said it would be with a New Name that He showed us this would be so. Christ said the only people that would see the One God are those that accepted the New Name.

At the same time I am happy for you to make all your own choices, we are individuals that each and all answer for what we have done in this life.

Regards Tony

 

[andy b]

Yes that is your choice.

For a Baha'i it is better to be killed than Kill. At the same time justice is important. How we impart that justice must be given in Love.

Jesus Christ was an example. Christ had all power over life, but sacrificed His. That lesson is a great one.

Regards Tony

I have a family to support Tony so I ain't getting slept by no punk in no situation ......as a christian I aspire to be Christlike but as s human I know my limitations

 

[cloudyday2]

Mormons deny fundamental aspects of Christianity. They are essentially polytheists. They only have superficial similarities.

Thanks, your comment is a great example of an issue that I was having trouble organizing and expressing: it isn't only the items of faith that distinguish religions but also the IMPORTANCE given to those items. For example, BEHAVIORALLY there is almost no difference between a earnest Christian and an earnest Mormon. Why is behavior a SUPERFICIAL similarity? Many religions would view behavior as fundamental.

The demons Jesus exorcises in the gospels apparently know his full identity, but knowing this doesn't make the demons reconciled with God. Paul in the Book of Romans speaks of gentiles who instinctively know and seek to obey the fundamentals of God's Law without knowing anything about Judaism and can be reconciled with God in spite of their ignorance.

Of course speaking of behavior as the fundamental trait of religion raises red flags for Christians who do not want to forget that their salvation is an undeserved gift from Jesus. However, the behavior desired by God is not necessarily perfect obedience to the letter of some law code. Rather, the behavior is to recognize that you desperately need to be reconciled with God to be complete, and that this reconciliation is worth far more than anything you might need to pay. ... A person can recognize this fact without knowing anything about Jesus. Jesus HIMSELF is the salvation - not the KNOWLEDGE of Jesus. A person might know Jesus without knowing his name and his gospel stories and the Christology of the Nicene Creed.