Christians, your feelings about non-Christians on CF?

Pavel Mosko

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I'm not so sure. Many CF members might feel that there are other forums besides CF where non-Christians can express their views, and CF has a commission from Jesus to spread His teachings. While free speech advocates might laud my ability to express my views on CF, if my posts are detrimental to the commission that Jesus gave to all his disciples then CF would probably have a duty to limit my free speech. Heresies are viewed as particularly dangerous because they are so similar to orthodoxy and can easily ensnare people who are seeking Christ.

So I can see why CF might not want their computers and software to be used to lead people away from Christianity, and I can see why they might see non-Christian members as a danger for that reason.
Well your empathy for CF positions is very freshing.

I got to say that the tight restrictions give me some pause at times. I actually think it helps to think about our Faith as far as compare and contrast. I actually tend to follow some heretical people!

To tell you the truth, I've got a bit of a soft spot for a Gnostic Bishop, who lives in LA named Stephen Hoeller who is interviewed below in this LA times article (I grew up in a small high desert CA city where the Times was a our big city news paper). I find him fascinating, his story coming from Eastern Europe has some parallels to my father's family coming from Slovakia in WWII. I also am intrigued at his comprehension of Christian Truths (some Christians who profess Nicene Creed views sometimes don't do well at that). I also like his style and have lifted some things from him. (He deals with people who are opposed to him in a gentlemanly even grandfatherly, erudite fashion instead of being abrasive, condescending etc.)

Anyway, at times I would like to post some of his videos that I enjoyed albeit with some kind of disclaimer (that I don't believe in the theology but found something interesting or useful) but the various warning on threads and the Blog area has largely kept me from doing so. (I could probably post them in the debate forum like I did with some of my Islam videos).


Exile in Godville
 
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MehGuy

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Yeah, I created a log-on there several years ago and lasted about a week before I quit. Sometimes I wonder if it should be called the "stinking atheist" forums instead of the "thinking atheist" forums. There was another one called "atheist forums" that wasn't quite as harsh. My favorite was the "happy atheist" forum. There were a lot of smart and nice people there, but the traffic was low. (Of course labeling as a Christian on any atheist forum seems to invite debates.)

Joining an atheist forum sounds really boring.. only time I ever joined one was when I was a Christian.. the people there attacked me.. but ended up respecting me for not backing down and running away like other theists did.. lol. Oh man.. I used to love the atheist/theist hatred when I was a Christian.. lol..

The climate was a little different back then, especially with the teen/young adult crowd.
 
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cloudyday2

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Joining an atheist forum sounds really boring.. only time I ever joined one was when I was a Christian.. the people there attacked me.. but ended up respecting me for not backing down and running away like other theists did.. lol. Oh man.. I used to love the atheist/theist hatred when I was a Christian.. lol..

The climate was a little different back then, especially with the teen/young adult crowd.
I joined the happy atheist forum within a few weeks of learning about psychosis and deciding that maybe it was the best explanation for experiences that I had been assuming were spiritual. So I needed a place where atheists could give me some reassurance in my new path. I also learned some useful things. For example, my cat is very thankful to the forgotten atheist who told me how important it is to play with my cat regularly when I mentioned my concern that he was sleeping too much and possibly depressed (LOL). I also did not have an accurate picture of how DNA works, and one of the atheists patiently answered my obscure questions and pointed me to some good links.

But I can see how a mature atheist would be bored on an atheist forum.
 
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MehGuy

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I joined the happy atheist forum within a few weeks of learning about psychosis and deciding that maybe it was the best explanation for experiences that I had been assuming were spiritual. So I needed a place where atheists could give me some reassurance in my new path. I also learned some useful things. For example, my cat is very thankful to the forgotten atheist who told me how important it is to play with my cat regularly when I mentioned my concern that he was sleeping too much and possibly depressed (LOL). I also did not have an accurate picture of how DNA works, and one of the atheists patiently answered my obscure questions and pointed me to some good links.

But I can see how a mature atheist would be bored on an atheist forum.

Yeah, I meant joining an atheist forum as an atheist sounds boring. A theist would probably have more fun. Although I still listen to atheist podcasts from time to time.. so maybe I'm not much of one to talk, lol. I used to be part of the atheist YouTube community, but it pretty much died after other atheists starting fight other atheists over feminism. The idea that the world would be more united and peaceful if we all became godless quickly died.. lol.

Kind of sad.. people who were once friends became enemies and some even resorted to doxing and trying to get people fired from their jobs. You can take religion out of the equation but we're still drawn to tribalism and emotional thinking.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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I joined the happy atheist forum within a few weeks of learning about psychosis and deciding that maybe it was the best explanation for experiences that I had been assuming were spiritual. S

Well in some ways that might be unfortunate.

1) There are a few cases here and there where spiritual phenomenon can objectively supported. In talking to this one English atheist I knew on a Christian Theological message board, I was working that point. There are some near death experiences where people see and hear things in the spirit that they could not have learned where their body was located. And the atheist agreed that sort of thing was possible, or that he was not opposed to that kind of idea. He however didn't quite get why I was making that sort of appeal or argument and I told him, if you make that kind of step into believing in some kind of after life or metaphysical spiritual reality, you basically are in the neighborhood of Theism, rather than complete Materialistic Evidentialism. At that point, it is only a very small short step towards theism rather than a 1000 mile chasm to cross.


2) Even certain atheists, Sam Harris especially comes to mind, comments that he sees himself as "spiritual" or sometimes finds things that are attractive in the Philosophy or mysticism of various religions. And I agree! So it's possible some of your spiritual events might be considered something more benevolent. Maybe it was you taking the first step of the "Heroes Journey" as Joseph Campbell use to say, or synchronicity, or Providence.
 
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cloudyday2

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Well in some ways that might be unfortunate.

1) There are a few cases here and there where spiritual phenomenon can objectively supported. In talking to this one English atheist I knew on a Christian Theological message board, I was working that point. There are some near death experiences where people see and hear things in the spirit that they could not have learned where their body was located. And the atheist agreed that sort of thing was possible, or that he was not opposed to that kind of idea. He however didn't quite get why I was making that sort of appeal or argument and I told him, if you make that kind of step into believing in some kind of after life or metaphysical spiritual reality, you basically are in the neighborhood of Theism, rather than complete Materialistic Evidentialism. At that point, it is only a very small short step towards theism rather than a 1000 mile chasm to cross.
In my case when spiritual things seemed to be happening I was trying my best to pretend they were not happening, because I didn't want people to think I was weird. So for example, when I saw some really weird stuff in the presence of other people, I didn't stop and say "wow, did you see that? what do you suppose that was?..." Mostly I shrugged my shoulders and tried to ignore stuff, but that meant that potential cases with multiple witnesses were not investigated at the time when memories were fresh. It is possible that I hallucinated the reactions of other people who seemed to be witnessing the same things.

But I totally agree with your approach of starting by exploring the possibility of a spiritual reality before tackling the possibility of God. Theoretically an atheistic can believe in spiritual things, but as a practical matter they can't.
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg

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My feeling is there are three types of non-christian on here:

A. The type that are looking to convert/have questions.
B. The type that aren't interesting in converting really, but enjoy talking none the less.
C. The kind that are here to troll.

I'm fine with A and B, but not C. The C kind should just be banned. They either post stories or response to things with only the intent on being trolls. Knowing full well if someone gets annoyed, they can report them and get them in trouble. They also enjoy circular debates where no matter what you say, they go around and around to drive you nuts.

Its also why I think if a non-christian has a history of reporting people, is known for antagonizing or only posts to cause problems, they should just be banned. Some say block them, but why do that when you can save the community the hassle by just removing them for good.

There would be many reasons and I see the list you posted is very limited. I do not post much here, but I do read the topics at times. I thought I would add a comment here, as it gives another side to the story.

It could be that some are here to learn more and at the same time give an occasional alternate views for others to consider as well.

A good point in question when it is said, "types of non-christian". What really defines a Non Christian and who would be the judge of that? Who knows who is the true Christian at heart and in deed?

For instance, I am a Baha'i, but I have a Love for Christ and for God's Word in the Bible. A love that I would offer, is as deep as those that first accepted Christ. The wonder of the birth of that Message is ageless.

Today is somewhat a special day for a Baha'i, being Easter Sunday. Christ sacrificed his life for us on this day and also on this day in1863 Baha'u'llah declared. I see it as a day of ageless significance.

As per the OP, how does that make you feel? I would be interested to know.

May Christ be with you always. Regards Tony
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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There would be many reasons and I see the list you posted is very limited. I do not post much here, but I do read the topics at times. I thought I would add a comment here, as it gives another side to the story.

It could be that some are here to learn more and at the same time give an occasional alternate views for others to consider as well.

A good point in question when it is said, "types of non-christian". What really defines a Non Christian and who would be the judge of that? Who knows who is the true Christian at heart and in deed?

For instance, I am a Baha'i, but I have a Love for Christ and for God's Word in the Bible. A love that I would offer, is as deep as those that first accepted Christ. The wonder of the birth of that Message is ageless.

Today is somewhat a special day for a Baha'i, being Easter Sunday. Christ sacrificed his life for us on this day and also on this day in1863 Baha'u'llah declared. I see it as a day of ageless significance.

As per the OP, how does that make you feel? I would be interested to know.

May Christ be with you always. Regards Tony
Those are good points. I also looked up what Baha'i is, never heard of it before. A very interesting read. :)
 
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MariaJLM

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There would be many reasons and I see the list you posted is very limited. I do not post much here, but I do read the topics at times. I thought I would add a comment here, as it gives another side to the story.

It could be that some are here to learn more and at the same time give an occasional alternate views for others to consider as well.

A good point in question when it is said, "types of non-christian". What really defines a Non Christian and who would be the judge of that? Who knows who is the true Christian at heart and in deed?

For instance, I am a Baha'i, but I have a Love for Christ and for God's Word in the Bible. A love that I would offer, is as deep as those that first accepted Christ. The wonder of the birth of that Message is ageless.

Today is somewhat a special day for a Baha'i, being Easter Sunday. Christ sacrificed his life for us on this day and also on this day in1863 Baha'u'llah declared. I see it as a day of ageless significance.

As per the OP, how does that make you feel? I would be interested to know.

May Christ be with you always. Regards Tony

Now that you mention it what actually are the Baha'i views on the Passion and Resurrection of Christ? I suspect you guys don't see him as God in the flesh who sacrificed himself to save a fallen world like we do.
 
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Zoness

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Joining an atheist forum sounds really boring.. only time I ever joined one was when I was a Christian.. the people there attacked me.. but ended up respecting me for not backing down and running away like other theists did.. lol. Oh man.. I used to love the atheist/theist hatred when I was a Christian.. lol..

The climate was a little different back then, especially with the teen/young adult crowd.

They're boring unless you're interested in the political aspects of secularism, which I am.

But it's boring because past that question I don't care much these days. I'm interested in philosophy but there's only so many times you can do the theism vs atheism debate.

I'd rather talk about video games, politics or literally anything else after awhile.
 
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There are some non-Christians members on CF who have no interest in converting to Christianity but enjoy the conversations here. As a non-Christian member, I sometimes feel that the many moderators and members would like me to go away.

Always open to discussion with non-Christians; please don't go anywhere.
 
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cloudyday2

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TI'm interested in philosophy but there's only so many times you can do the theism vs atheism debate.
I'm sure you have seen the theism vs atheism debate on both Christian forums and atheist forums. How does the type of forum affect the debate?
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg

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Now that you mention it what actually are the Baha'i views on the Passion and Resurrection of Christ? I suspect you guys don't see him as God in the flesh who sacrificed himself to save a fallen world like we do.

I see that would be another OP. The important thing is I see your response to a person on this forum that does not go by the 'Title of Christain', is that of curiosity.

I see curiosity is a great virtue when used correctly. It enables us to examine all things with an empty glass or like a child as the bible tells us to do.

Christ is my purpose in life, my heart has no other desire and may that purpose become a world embracing vision. The key with that statement, is that is saying a lot, without actually saying it in words. I see that is the Bible.

Regards Tony
 
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cloudyday2

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Now that you mention it what actually are the Baha'i views on the Passion and Resurrection of Christ? I suspect you guys don't see him as God in the flesh who sacrificed himself to save a fallen world like we do.
I just googled that question and the answer is more interesting than I expected.
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg

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I just googled that question and the answer is more interesting than I expected.

It is also the reason that a person on a Christain Forum, that has a different view of Christ, must show in words and deeds what Christ tried to teach us all, and that is, that we are to only show Love for all. I see we are all in this life as a gift from God, we are all guided as per the wisdom of God.

I love this passage in the Bible, I see the scope is greater than has been considered within the Christain Faith, I see it all embracing of humanity and past Faiths.

"John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

Regards Tony
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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A good point in question when it is said, "types of non-christian". What really defines a Non Christian and who would be the judge of that? Who knows who is the true Christian at heart and in deed?

For instance, I am a Baha'i, but I have a Love for Christ and for God's Word in the Bible. A love that I would offer, is as deep as those that first accepted Christ. The wonder of the birth of that Message is ageless.

Christianity carries with it a definition which contains historicity and to redefine it as you are attempting to do seems misleading. The Muslims of the Seventh Century were not Christians. The Bahai of the 21st century are also not Christians. Nestorians, Orthodox, Catholics, Oriental Orthodox and even Protestants may be classed as Christians because there is a common theology and agreement concerning who Christ is. Bahai are not a Christian sect but a decidedly new religion which denies many Christian beliefs and practices. Thus you might claim Jesus, but that doesn't make you Christian.

Today is somewhat a special day for a Baha'i, being Easter Sunday. Christ sacrificed his life for us on this day and also on this day in1863 Baha'u'llah declared. I see it as a day of ageless significance.

As per the OP, how does that make you feel? I would be interested to know.

May Christ be with you always. Regards Tony

Easter is the day Christ rose from the dead. Bahai deny his resurrection and maintain that Jesus didn't actually rise from the dead but his disciples simply had a greater sense of Jesus' teachings.

Easter might be special for you, but it is special for different, non Christian, reasons.
 
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Tony Bristow-Stagg

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Christianity carries with it a definition which contains historicity and to redefine it as you are attempting to do seems misleading.

Seems to be, would be correct way to consider it. If one considers that as a valid argument, one would just be using the same evidence that the Jews would use against Christains, it is the same as saying that the Christains mislead the Jews.

The Muslims of the Seventh Century were not Christians. The Bahai of the 21st century are also not Christians.

Both Faiths teach acceptance of Christ and I also see they teach acceptance of the Word of God. The waters are somewhat muddied in the interpretaion of the Quran, but to a Baha'i faith in Jesus as the Christ is immovable.

Luckily the judge for ones heart, is God and we do not have the right to judge another's heart. Christ tells where to look and Christ mentions good fruit, from good trees.

Nestorians, Orthodox, Catholics, Oriental Orthodox and even Protestants may be classed as Christians because there is a common theology and agreement concerning who Christ is.

There was one Jesus with a Message of the One God. As believers in Christ, we are one and Christ said the Name will also be One, but Christ did say it will be a new name. The Jews can also argue a common theology, has it served them with wisdom?

Bahai are not a Christian sect but a decidedly new religion which denies many Christian beliefs and practices. Thus you might claim Jesus, but that doesn't make you Christian.

A Christain accepts the Old Testament, it became part of faith in Christ.

The question then is, do Christains follow all the laws and practices and all Jewish Theology of the Old Testement?

If not, as one can see, it is not a valid argument, as it has also been used in the past against Christains.

Easter is the day Christ rose from the dead. Bahai deny his resurrection and maintain that Jesus didn't actually rise from the dead but his disciples simply had a greater sense of Jesus' teachings. Easter might be special for you, but it is special for different, non Christian, reasons.

That the events in Jesus life, as the Christ, are seen with a different frame of reference, this in turn does not diminish their importance or beauty.

The Christains will have this same comparison with the Old Testament. A Christain would see a fulfillment of the Old Testement and as such see they have a great love for it, that a Jew is just yet to accept.

Thus again an argument that is on shaking foundations.

It may be best if we share our love for Christ and put theology aside, Baha'u'llah offered;

"Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.
We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified......"

Regards Tony
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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QUOTE="cloudyday2, post: 73864492, member: 311563"]There are some non-Christians members on CF who have no interest in converting to Christianity but enjoy the conversations here. As a non-Christian member, I sometimes feel that the many moderators and members would like me to go away. I bought a lifetime membership several years ago, but I wouldn't want to hang around at CF thinking I am adding value to the conversations when maybe I am only an irritant. It is easy to misunderstand or overlook the feelings of others when typing on keyboards.

The forums where non-Christians can participate are called "outreach" forums, and I suppose that "outreach" might not include conversations with people who have shown no interest in conversion over years of membership.

So I was curious what Christians members honestly feel about that.[/QUOTE
===========================================
People join just like any business - no different. Feelings go up and down, and don't change that, do they ?
 
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cloudyday2

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People join just like any business - no different. Feelings go up and down, and don't change that, do they ?
I'm having trouble understanding what you mean. Maybe I am missing something obvious, but can you say it a different way?
 
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cloudyday2

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@Tony Bristow-Stagg , I had a couple of question regarding your beliefs on Manifestations:
(1) Can a person BECOME a Manifestation? There is the famous scene where a dove descends on Jesus when he is baptized. Buddha goes through a process before he becomes enlightened. Moses saw the burning bush. Etc.
(2) Can there be more than one Manifestation SIMULTANEOUSLY?
 
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