Christians who vote Democrat: why do you vote for a pro-abortion party?

[Junker P Hoodwink]

The Bible is clear that life begins at conception.

Proverbs 139:13, “For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.”

Jeremiah 1:5, “Before you were in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as the prophet of nations.”

Job 31:15, “Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?”

Psalm 22:10, “From birth I was cast on you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.”

Luke 1:41, "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."

 

[Zoii]

@Junker P Hoodwink, Why must christians here use language they know is non-factual, with the choice of words designed to incite anger. Its an approach IMO that isnt christian - Its adversarial

'Pro-Abortion' would imply that they want everyone to have an abortion - how ridiculous

Not every democrat will support an abortion

Those that do are NOT pro-abortion, but Pro-CHOICE.

And for the record some Republicans are pro-CHOICE as well.

Also some will sit in the middle - ie do not support abortion, though acknowledge certain cohorts should have access to pregnancy termination eg Terminations due to a medical condition.

So I would ask first and foremost, when you start such debates, to cease with an adversarial approach and choice of words aimed to incite hate.

You want your country to be great again? - Well it wont while people like you throw vitriol at those who dont vote the same way as you

 

[seeking.IAM]

Because I'm not a single issue voter.

 

[tulc]

The Bible is clear that life begins at conception.

Proverbs 139:13, “For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.”

Jeremiah 1:5, “Before you were in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as the prophet of nations.”

Job 31:15, “Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?”

Psalm 22:10, “From birth I was cast on you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.”

Luke 1:41, "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."

I don't think this topic is for this forum I think it's supposed to go here: Debates on Abortion
tulc( perhaps a mod could move it for Junker P Hoodwink?)

 

[Strathos]

There is a big difference between pro-abortion and pro-choice. Statistics show that the best way to reduce abortions is by providing easy access to contraception and safe sex education. Trying to outlaw it just leads to women attempting to perform the procedure themselves with several dangerous methods that often end up killing them.

 

[Junker P Hoodwink]

Why must christians here use language they know is non-factual, with the choice of words designed to incite anger. Its an approach IMO that isnt christian - Its adversarial

'Pro-Abortion' would imply that they want everyone to have an abortion - how ridiculous

Not every democrat will support an abortion

Those that do are NOT pro-abortion, but Pro-CHOICE.

And for the record some Republicans are pro-CHOICE as well.

Also some will sit in the middle - ie do not support abortion, though acknowledge certain cohorts should have access to pregnancy termination eg Terminations due to a medical condition.

So I would ask first and foremost, when you start such debates, to cease with an adversarial approach and choice of words aimed to incite hate.

Actually, the term "pro-choice" is deceptive. Anyone who uses that term is reframing the subject to make it about something it isn't.

 

[Halbhh]

The Bible is clear that life begins at conception.

Proverbs 139:13, “For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.”

Jeremiah 1:5, “Before you were in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as the prophet of nations.”

Job 31:15, “Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?”

Psalm 22:10, “From birth I was cast on you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.”

Luke 1:41, "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."

Reading through entirely the wonderful and powerful Psalm 139 is a revelation! This is a prayer, this particular psalm, we all should pray occasionally.

But when exactly does God place the soul in the developing human body?

If conception was the moment a soul enters a developing human life, that would be extraordinarily hard to justify and explain by the word of God, since God is not unjust and --
"A recent re-analysis of hCG study data concluded that approximately 40-60% of embryos may be lost between fertilisation and birth, although this will vary substantially between individual women. "
Early embryo mortality in natural human reproduction: What the data say

Meaning about 1/2 of all developing human babies don't make it due to natural abortion done by the mother's body.

Of course "abortion" as we typically talk about it is not this natural spontaneous abortion done by the mother's body, but instead human-caused abortion. It may be that the great majority of developing babies aborted by human choice would have been viable and received a soul, at some point. When? We don't know that exact time when by scripture, to my knowledge (though I'm eager to consider any verses).

We definitely know that God knows souls before He puts them into bodies. We just don't know (to my knowledge) precisely when He puts a soul in a developing body, that special moment, during pregnancy.

But there is a powerful clue -- in how there is a certain point past which suddenly it is very emotionally fraught to lose the developing baby.

That's significant, that point in time. I don't know how far along that is precisely, but I wonder if others know. It's not on day 5 or 12 for instance, before a woman even knows....not that soon....but it's long before the last month.

 

[Zoii]

Actually, the term "pro-choice" is deceptive. Anyone who uses that term is reframing the subject to make it about something it isn't.

OK - and what, in your opinion, is the paradigm, if its not about having a legal environment for a woman to choose if she will have a child or not.

In any case my point is about your language and the way you try to instigate a vitriolic discussion , by lobbing a few grenades on those who dont vote the way you do.

 

[Junker P Hoodwink]

In any case my point is about your language and the way you try to instigate a vitriolic discussion , by lobbing a few grenades on those who dont vote the way you do.

You're projecting your own aggression onto me.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Because I'm not a single issue voter.

I am pro-choice, but like seriously...I'm Democrat for so many other reasons before the abortion issue would even make the list.

 

[expos4ever]

I am not an American, but if I were, I would vote Democrat, no doubt about it. Yes, I have concerns about the abortion issue, but I suspect you and others do not really know the exact position of the Democratic party on abortion. I don't know it either, but I would bet is not remotely close to "abortion on demand", something I would deeply object to.

There are so many reasons in my mind why the current Republican party is farther from the gospel model than the Democrats.

 

[redleghunter]

But when exactly does God place the soul in the developing human body?

Does it matter? I don’t know why people bring this up as the answer is if we don’t know when then we do no harm.

That immediately squelches the argument as if we don’t know and go ahead and act then we make ourselves out to be God.

Then again we can all consider the following:

Christ is truly God and truly human. His human nature was conceived in the womb as well with a human soul. Would we think of the Divine Logos at some point had a soulless body?

 

[Chesterton]

nm

 

[PloverWing]

The question of abortion rights isn't very important to me as a voter one way or the other. I'm more concerned with the environment, foreign policy, civil rights, and immigration policy, and I line up fairly well with the Democrats on these issues.

 

[Zoii]

You're projecting your own aggression onto me.

Ah huh---Ok as Australians sometimes say 'I'll let that go through to the keeper' - For you Americans its kinda a 'not worth a comment'

In any case it seems u understand my point and hope you tone down the rhetoric.
After all - these are your own compatriots - they may not vote like you - but gee - the way American voters attack each other....not pretty and certainly not uniting the country.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

The question of abortion rights isn't very important to me as a voter one way or the other. I'm more concerned with the environment, foreign policy, civil rights, and immigration policy, and I line up fairly well with the Democrats on these issues.

As a liberal, I don't support abortion. But unlike the majority of the conservatives I know now and have known during my life, I'm more than just pro-birth. My pro-life beliefs do not end at an unborn child in the womb. Personally speaking, I could never, in good conscience, be a Republican again and not just for political reasons but also for moral reasons as well. I'm a liberal for many reasons.

 

[redleghunter]

My pro-life beliefs do not end at an unborn child in the womb.

That’s great! Which Christian ministry do you work for or support which provides support before, during and after the birth of the child?

 

[Arcangl86]

I'm not a single issue voter, but even if I was I think that Democratic policies are actually more effective in reducing abortions.

 

[tulc]

That’s great! Which Christian ministry do you work for or support which provides support before, during and after the birth of the child?

Well I support (as does my family) this one:
Cornerstone Community Outreach
we provide help for pregnant women, women with children families in need and programs to train people to get work. we help with housing, medical needs, feeding programs and overnight shelters for about 400 people a night.
tulc(we also help a lot of refugees and homeless vets)

 

[redleghunter]

Well I support (as does my family) this one:
Cornerstone Community Outreach
we provide help for pregnant women, women with children families in need and programs to train people to get work. we help with housing, medical needs, feeding programs and overnight shelters for about 400 people a night.
tulc(we also help a lot of refugees and homeless vets)

This is great tulc!