Discussion Christians who seek to stop churches and revivals...

[GoldenKingGaze]

Around the world and in Australia there are Christian groups that seek to stop other pastors and revivals from going. Like "church watch central." They do some church of their own, but seem to focus on speaking against large church pastors like Brian Houston and the Pringles and Ben Fitzgerald. I read from their site that they actually thought the latter practiced witchcraft, and they tried to take him to court, and criticized him for taking self protecting legal action in court.

They think contending for the faith means picking fights. There is big ego in the interpretation of things. Maybe jealousy. "Am I really expected to believe, he, is anointed and that I should not touch him?" They ask questions of the pastors to trap them in engaging with a fighter. The pastors now ask "what is your motive in asking me that question?"

They criticize the New Apostolic Reformation, NAR. This is a bit of a vague movement and seems to be built around what CP Wagner observed the Spirit doing in the twentieth century. Revivals, growth, graces, offices being restored and phenomena. I hear things like that NAR wants to bring back stoning adulterers... I find it hard to verify things, but I plan to call Wagner institute... So they seem to dislike the Holy Spirit. Sometimes they think it is demonic. They call themselves Pentecostals but no longer believe in the gift of tongues. They misinterpret, "Do all things decently and in order."

I recall in one video from a critic group Benny Hinn is pointing as they he had just been holding a book open. The comment is, "Only Satanists ever make that hand symbol. Hinn is actually a Satanist." I have a friend who would fall that sort of stuff.

Persecution goes on and on, Cain versus Abel, the troubles of the prophets, early Christians and Rome, heretics and the Popes, witches and protestant kangaroo courts and councils, the Jews and Nazi Germany... Now some people want to bring back, "guilty until proven innocent".

These people kid themselves if they think they are serving God like this. I wrote to them to ask question about Jesus, but no reply. Surprisingly, I think the wife of the head of one of these moves wrote this song about rumours:

 

[RaymondG]

I wonder....If I were to write something negative about the ones who are criticizing other Christians, would that not make me just like them?

 

[bekkilyn]

I don't believe there is cause to stop anyone from expressing one's religious beliefs in any manner they choose, whether we agree with them or not, unless of course they are harming other people, like if they were actually going around stoning adulterers. So while it's fine to hold a critical opinion, and express it at the appropriate times and places, we must allow people freedom to practice their faiths regardless of our own opinions, and even if they practice Satanism or some other belief system traditionally opposed to Christianity.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I wonder....If I were to write something negative about the ones who are criticizing other Christians, would that not make me just like them?

Depends on your motives and the intended results. It would be a taste of their own medicine. As in Proverbs.
KJV
Pro 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
Pro 15:12 A scorner loveth not one that reproveth him: neither will he go unto the wise.
Pro 22:10 Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out; yea, strife and reproach shall cease.
ESV
Pro 22:10 Drive out a scoffer, and strife will go out, and quarreling and abuse will cease.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I don't believe there is cause to stop anyone from expressing one's religious beliefs in any manner they choose, whether we agree with them or not, unless of course they are harming other people, like if they were actually going around stoning adulterers. So while it's fine to hold a critical opinion, and express it at the appropriate times and places, we must allow people freedom to practice their faiths regardless of our own opinions, and even if they practice Satanism or some other belief system traditionally opposed to Christianity.

I agree with you, but I am not sure about Satanism which I think does harm. Ritual abuse.

 

[bekkilyn]

I agree with you, but I am not sure about Satanism which I think does harm. Ritual abuse.

Depends on the type of Satanism, but I would agree that practicing ritual abuse would disqualify freedom of expression. However, we can't assume that a Satanist is practicing ritual abuse any more than we could assume that a Christian sect isn't practicing ritual abuse.

 

[Halbhh]

Around the world and in Australia there are Christian groups that seek to stop other pastors and revivals from going. Like "church watch central." They do some church of their own, but seem to focus on speaking against large church pastors like Brian Houston and the Pringles and Ben Fitzgerald. I read from their site that they actually thought the latter practiced witchcraft, and they tried to take him to court, and criticized him for taking self protecting legal action in court.

They think contending for the faith means picking fights. There is big ego in the interpretation of things. Maybe jealousy. "Am I really expected to believe, he, is anointed and that I should not touch him?" They ask questions of the pastors to trap them in engaging with a fighter. The pastors now ask "what is your motive in asking me that question?"

They criticize the New Apostolic Reformation, NAR. This is a bit of a vague movement and seems to be built around what CP Wagner observed the Spirit doing in the twentieth century. Revivals, growth, graces, offices being restored and phenomena. I hear things like that NAR wants to bring back stoning adulterers... I find it hard to verify things, but I plan to call Wagner institute... So they seem to dislike the Holy Spirit. Sometimes they think it is demonic. They call themselves Pentecostals but no longer believe in the gift of tongues. They misinterpret, "Do all things decently and in order."

I recall in one video from a critic group Benny Hinn is pointing as they he had just been holding a book open. The comment is, "Only Satanists ever make that hand symbol. Hinn is actually a Satanist." I have a friend who would fall that sort of stuff.

Persecution goes on and on, Cain versus Abel, the troubles of the prophets, early Christians and Rome, heretics and the Popes, witches and protestant kangaroo courts and councils, the Jews and Nazi Germany... Now some people want to bring back, "guilty until proven innocent".

These people kid themselves if they think they are serving God like this. I wrote to them to ask question about Jesus, but no reply. Surprisingly, I think the wife of the head of one of these moves wrote this song about rumours:

I've attended at least 7 denominations where I've heard at least 3 sermons each, in times when I've been really listening. That includes not only very mainstream like Catholic and Lutheran, but also even a Church of God for a few years (a form of penecostal, because we moved to a house only about 50 yards away from one, and my mother would just take us to any church that was the closest; my non-believing step-father called them the 'holy rollers'. But mostly I've attended larger denominations like Lutheran and Chruch of Christ, and currently am in a Lutheran church. No church is perfect, and there is nothing wrong with a person being a reserved person who listens silently, or an effusive person that yells up and jumps up and down, etc.)

I think there is no protection from being misled for anyone (in any church, not even the oldest) except only that protection Christ Himself said, which He said depends on whether they do this He said:

John 10 NIV

I give the full chapter link, because it's wrong and mistaken to think we can understand a verse outside of the full meaning it has together with all the verses it relies on.

But it's not only the beginning of the chapter in particular that is why this came to mind, though that is indeed a part. Absorb the beginning, meditate on it, make it a part of you. But then, in time continue reading the chapter fully (don't stop at verse 21!).

If you start to think about, wonder about, what "listen" means in verse 27, then consider all that is being said -- Christ Himself is speaking. Words. He is saying words that we should listen to, if we believe in Him. Yes?

The profound protection in verse 28-29 is for those that do as in verse 27 as we can clearly see, but verse 27 cannot be understood in isolation either. It's part of the passage, chapter...book.

Best would be to fully read through the Gospel of John, if one has not in recent years.

Even if you've already read this Gospel.

Amazingly, I can testify that if you are reading it the 3rd or 5th time, I can testify, you will learn deep new things that will strongly help you. Things you need right now.

After all, you want to be His sheep, not someone else's, of course, so you will want to listen to Him. And this applies to all of us, in every church. Not just some people need to listen, but every one must if they wish to be one of His sheep.

John 1 NIV (NIV is pretty good, but if reading for the 3rd or more time, I'd recommend to go to the ESV translation:
John 1 ESV

(And Matthew. And Luke. Mark. -- they also one can learn so much from even reading the 3rd or 5th time, or simply if you haven't read one of them in the last 3 or 4 years, to listen to Him more, and hear more. It is so rich, and so little of what He said is communicated in chruches even with a good preacher during a year or 2 of attendance.)

 

[com7fy8]

Maybe jealousy.

Anyone who gets attention can get attacked. And it is possible that neither the person nor the attackers are right. Both might be wrong; but that attention . . . gets attention

I see if the ones doing the criticizing are at least as careful to point out how they themselves are wrong and can be misleading. After all, judgment begins "with us first" > 1 Peter 4:17. So, examples of this will first make sure we are wise to them, themselves.

 

[jiminpa]

Slanderers, liars, and gossips, are on the same list, having no part in God's kingdom, as adulterers and murderers. Some of these same people have held or participated in anti-Holy Spirit rallies.