Christians in Film

keith99

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Let me start by saying I'm in a position not unlike the most conservative of Christians. I find a lot of Film and TV to be drek so I do not watch all that much, especially if one does not count sporting events.

I've seen it claimed that Christians are portrayed unfairly in Movies and TV.

Does anyone here see that as a general pattern? Either way can anyone give some specific examples?

When I started to think about this a bit I started thinking that there is cause for complaint, not on how Christians are portrayed, but rather that Christians are portrayed so little. I can see some reasons for that and any comments on that issue are also welcome.
 

loveofourlord

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Let me start by saying I'm in a position not unlike the most conservative of Christians. I find a lot of Film and TV to be drek so I do not watch all that much, especially if one does not count sporting events.

I've seen it claimed that Christians are portrayed unfairly in Movies and TV.

Does anyone here see that as a general pattern? Either way can anyone give some specific examples?

When I started to think about this a bit I started thinking that there is cause for complaint, not on how Christians are portrayed, but rather that Christians are portrayed so little. I can see some reasons for that and any comments on that issue are also welcome.

I wonder how much of that is just background. Look around your town up to 98% are Christian depending on where you live, and is there anything that makes them uniquely christian? You don't see straight people portrayed in films either, because they are the "norm" the base level least in people's minds, so it's the differences, the minorities, the gay person, the hindu, or jew that stand out, but everyone else you probably assume depending on the char is a straight chrisitan and don't think about it.

If were talking about terrible stereotypes, how about scientists? Just watched a film yesterday that drove me up the wall, never thought about it till then, but it's another, "One man will save the planet, while ALL the worlds scientists are incompetent"

But maybe it's just a perspective, stereotypes don't bother me as much, I'm sure I've been offended or annoyed with how a Chriistian was shown, but it doesn't last.

I wonder if this is a bit like the Christian persecution idea, it's something everyone "knows" is true, but no one can point to anything concrete beyond a smal 2-5% difference, oh this one is the over protective christian mother or such.
 
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I definitely do see a pattern here in "Old Europe" (read British and Nordic TV, film, literature) how fictional Christian clergy seems to fall into two stereotypes: the pompous foolish small town parish pastors as a comic relief and the wicked, corrupted, cruel vicar/bishop/archbishop/cardinal as an antagonist.

There seems to be a cultural divide between Europe and North America, however, which I think may have a lot to do with the religious/denominational pluralism of NA vs. our Anglican/Lutheran one country-one religion dominance. Unless it's about the Roman Catholics, NA TV series and movies tend to portray generic Christian/Protestant pastors for mass appeal, and I suspect there's some PC going on so as not to offend anyone with a merest hint of any one specific denomination being portrayed negatively. I.e. over here, we are basically laughing at ourselves. In NA, the business does not want to be caught having a laugh at a particular denomination's expense (and cue outrage), if that makes sense.

Examples of foolish country parish pastors: basically, anything by Jane Austen in literature and film & TV adaptations. William Collins in the Pride & Prejudice is the "grandfather" of this type: (morally) weak, pompous, selfish laughing-stock partial to gluttony and flattery. Old Finnish black-and-white pastoral films are full of (drunk) stock characters like this. The priest in The Walking Dead. The younger version would be found in Emma: a opportunistic handsome young vicar looking for a prosperious marriage for money and social position.

The corrupt bishop/cardinal or the sadistic minister father: The Borgias, the Tudors, The Da Vinci Code, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, Robin Hood, the Three Musketeers, Ladyhawke, The Pillars of the Earth, Fanny and Alexander. Modern version found in Nordic thriller series: clergy and organized religion = authority and in this genre, authority is often portrayed as corrupt: currupt cop, elected official, or vicar.
 
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keith99

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I definitely do see a pattern here in "Old Europe" (read British and Nordic TV, film, literature) how fictional Christian clergy seems to fall into two stereotypes: the pompous foolish small town parish pastors as a comic relief and the wicked, corrupted, cruel vicar/bishop/archbishop/cardinal as an antagonist.

There seems to be a cultural divide between Europe and North America, however, which I think may have a lot to do with the religious/denominational pluralism of NA vs. our Anglican/Lutheran one country-one religion dominance. Unless it's about the Roman Catholics, NA TV series and movies tend to portray generic Christian/Protestant pastors for mass appeal, and I suspect there's some PC going on so as not to offend anyone with a merest hint of any one specific denomination being portrayed negatively. I.e. over here, we are basically laughing at ourselves. In NA, the business does not want to be caught having a laugh at a particular denomination's expense (and cue outrage), if that makes sense.

Examples of foolish country parish pastors: basically, anything by Jane Austen in literature and film & TV adaptations. William Collins in the Pride & Prejudice is the "grandfather" of this type: (morally) weak, pompous, selfish laughing-stock partial to gluttony and flattery. Old Finnish black-and-white pastoral films are full of (drunk) stock characters like this. The priest in The Walking Dead. The younger version would be found in Emma: a opportunistic handsome young vicar looking for a prosperious marriage for money and social position.

The corrupt bishop/cardinal or the sadistic minister father: The Borgias, the Tudors, The Da Vinci Code, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, Robin Hood, the Three Musketeers, Ladyhawke, The Pillars of the Earth, Fanny and Alexander. Modern version found in Nordic thriller series: clergy and organized religion = authority and in this genre, authority is often portrayed as corrupt: currupt cop, elected official, or vicar.

Am I understanding correctly that the vast majority of what you are pointing out is about the clergy more than Christians in general? And perhaps to some degree it is the almost standard anti authority meme.

That you mentioned The Three Musketeers is interesting as I see a trend there. In the book Richelieu is a more complex character and honestly far removed from the almost one dimensional evil person he has mutated to in more recent films. After all near the end of the story (book) it is Richelieu who gives D'Artagnan a lieutenants commission in the Musketeers.

Oh and on the foolish country pastors, do some of them have some good qualities? Especially in older stories. I'm starting to wonder down a different line than I started on, thinking that perhaps stock characters are losing their depth and things like a foolish country pastor, who in the early versions was still shown as caring loses the redeeming traits in more modern renditions. (And totally off my original track that this might be happening to all sorts of stock characters, Christian and not).
 
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Ada Lovelace

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I'm still sleepy and my brain is uncooperative so I can't think of as many examples at the moment of fictional Christian portrayals in movies and TV shows outside of the context of the clergy. The main one that is coming to mind right now is "The Good Wife" because I binge-watched the past seasons of it on Hulu when sick and am now caught up to current shows. There have been several story arcs relating to Christianity and religious beliefs in general in this season and past ones after the lead character's teenage daughter, Grace, develops an interest in faith and becomes baptized. There's an episode where the high-profile parents are terrified Grace has been kidnapped when her whereabouts are unknown for a few hours after school because she'd called her mom several times without leaving a message and had been seen by friends getting into the car of an unknown adult. It's later revealed that she's been at church being secretly baptized. An private investigator who works for her mom's law office tracks Grace down to the church, orders the minister to cease contact with her (which he agrees to do) and then returns her home where her parents lecture and ground her. She is punished for having been deceitful and irresponsible, but it's also clear they disapprove of her baptism. There's another scene where her mom expresses concern about Grace becoming a Christian, telling her that Christians are becoming a minority group in America. Ultimately the parents do end up becoming supportive of Grace being a Christian, and in this season her mom evens go to her for assistance when representing clients in a Christian form of arbitration. That brings up a whole other episode and portrayals.

The fictional Grace is somewhat annoying because for the first few seasons she's a socially awkward nerve-grating dork, this Jesus freak who holds loud choir practices repeatedly singing cloying hymns with her friends while her mom and her campaign team are trying to concentrate in the adjoining room. She is shown as being friendless, plain, naive, and boring in earlier seasons. Over time she becomes beautiful, and it's clear she's intelligent and thoughtful.

The other parts of the show that were interesting is that Alicia's political advisors see her atheism as being something that has to be mitigated because voters will be less inclined to support her. She's been admired by conservatives for being "Saint Alicia," a virtuous woman who gave up her law career to stay at home when her children were young, and who stood by her husband through his infidelity. Her advisors worry that she'll lose favor with that demographic if she doesn't modify previous public comments where she said she was an atheist, and that voters "don't support atheists."

This is an old article about one of the past seasons. There might be newer ones.
CBS's 'The Good Wife' Takes on Jesus from Both Sides

As for movies..... I actually think the Christian characters in Christian movies like "God's Not Dead" are more unlikeable and obnoxious than the one in secular movies. There wasn't a single Christian character in God's Not Dead who did not send my eyes off on a roller coaster. That movie was just a freaking embarrassment.

UPDATE:
So I have "The Good Wife" on in the background right now and there are two episodes back to back that involve Christian characters or plot points. The last one was from an earlier season when Grace first decides she wants to explore Christianity. Her mom is called to school because Grace has infringed on the school's policy about not wearing shirts with religious or political statements by wearing a a tee shirt with a cross that reads "I am the mustard seed." Her mom questions her passion for wanting to make such a statement because they've never been religious, and Grace explains that a friend gave it to her. Later on she seems to be more sincerely interested in Christianity, and her mom agrees to drive her to church and gives her a Bible.

The second episode is the one I mentioned above about two Christians who become involved in arbitration. It's called Binding Christian Arbitration - the Matthew Process. At home that night Alicia seeks Grace's help on Bible verses relating to the case. She asks Grace if she really believes in all the stuff in the Bible. I actually thought Grace's response was lovely -

“I don’t know if it’s all historically accurate, but I think it can be true in another way. You know, like poetry; it can still be true even if it’s not accurate. Look, if I wanted you to remember that God created everything, I’d probably tell you a story about it happening in seven days. But that doesn’t mean it actually happened in seven days. It just means that I wanted you to remember that God created everything.” The two Christian neighbors end up peacefully working out the differences and coming up with a fair agreement while the lawyers bicker over Bible verses.

http://observer.com/2014/10/the-good-wife-episode-6x3-if-i-ran/

Oh, and this episode also features Gloria Steinem encouraging Alicia to run for office!!!!! My mom is the one who loves this show but I legitimately like it now.
 
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Inkfingers

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I've seen it claimed that Christians are portrayed unfairly in Movies and TV.

Does anyone here see that as a general pattern? Either way can anyone give some specific examples?

The typical presentation of Christians in the media falls into 4 general categories:

Wet, faltering, liberal, dipstick:
Rev-Tom-Hollander-007.jpg


Twisted machiavelian:
Cardinal.jpg


Comic relief:
Ned_Flanders.png


And unattainable "sexy" priest:
James_Norton__from_demonic_TV_villain_in_Happy_Valley_to_crime_fighting_cleric_in_Grantchester.jpg


But media lives on facile stereotypes, so its not really surprising. I don't expect it to be Christian-friendly.
 
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Bananagator

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For some reason the only portrayal of regular everyday Christians that has bothered me enough for me to specifically remember are those seen in the show Degrassi: The Next Generation.

Now, keep in mind that I don't watch Degrassi. Especially not The Next Generation. But from what I've seen - which, again, isn't much - a vast majority of the characters turn away from their (Christian) faith throughout their time on the show, if they had any to begin with. And they're generally laughed at by the characters that aren't Christians.

Maybe the reason the examples in Degrassi make me so angry is that show as a whole just makes me angry ^_^
I watched a few episodes when I was in high school and uuuuggghhh it's just so.... ugh. But yeah, their general portrayal of Christians being freaks is just icing on the cake.

I'm not typically offended by portrayals on TV to be honest. I love The Simpsons and I think Flanders is hilarious, Sheldon's mom on The Big Bang Theory made me laugh for a while, etc. But really, I can't think of anything else. Except on South Park but that hardly even counts since they make fun of absolutely everyone hahahaha.
 
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Kalevalatar

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Am I understanding correctly that the vast majority of what you are pointing out is about the clergy more than Christians in general?

Yes, because the clergy represents the visible Christian.

Portraying generic "everyday" layman Christian, however, therein lies the difficulty.

Story structure/plot rules dictate that unless it's 100% crucial to the plot and the story itself, you leave it out. In literature, you have the luxury of getting into the character's head to hear their private ruminations; in film, you have to show it in action. It takes times, seconds on the film, and time is money. You cannot show thoughts. Character's political opinions, religion, high school sweethearts, reading, eating, bathroom habits are not shown unless it has a plot point or the story is about politics or religion, one Christian's personal journey or some such. A protagonist can be a devout Christian, an avid horse rider and a green thumb, but unless it has a point, it's not adressed or even shown on screen ... if you get my drift. James Bond can be a devout Anglican, but we don't really know, since his off-duty quiet time is rarely and only shown when it's relevant to the Bond-ish action plot.

Similarly, keeping in mind that 75% of Finns belong to the Evangelical Lutheran Church and 90% of our teenagers choose Lutheran confirmation, I assume that the generic Finnish film protagonists reflect this and have a background similar to mine: they are parish members and believe in God, even if their occasional going to the Sunday Mass is not shown on screen. These characters are not portrayed as Christians per se.

Therefore I think that the representations of the clergy = Christian in general, in films.

That you mentioned The Three Musketeers is interesting as I see a trend there. In the book Richelieu is a more complex character and honestly far removed from the almost one dimensional evil person he has mutated to in more recent films. After all near the end of the story (book) it is Richelieu who gives D'Artagnan a lieutenants commission in the Musketeers.

That's an interesting observations and I agree. Film (moving picture), literature, and movie or state adaptations are totally different medium, though. In literature, you can be privy to the protagonist's private thoughts; generally, you have hundreds of pages to engage with the POV characters. In film and movie adaptations, the script clocks at page 110 or 120, typically, at the expense of complexity. A character can be a lot of interesting, complex things, but you can only show in the final cut the one most crucial side of a character. TV series, usually, if they make it past the first season do-or-die cut, start showing more character facets and development in season two.

Oh and on the foolish country pastors, do some of them have some good qualities? Especially in older stories. I'm starting to wonder down a different line than I started on, thinking that perhaps stock characters are losing their depth and things like a foolish country pastor, who in the early versions was still shown as caring loses the redeeming traits in more modern renditions. (And totally off my original track that this might be happening to all sorts of stock characters, Christian and not).

Maybe it's our rather solemn Lutheran traditions, but unless those foolish pastoral pastors are there for a comic relief alone, they are quite often the instrument that brings down the struggling and "fallen" heroine. In these films, the audience's sympathy is on the heroine's (or hero's) side: s/he's had one lapse, has repented and is trying to start anew, but the establishment/authority typically a country pastor or vicar won't let her spoil his flock. As I said, this is a Finnish & Nordic (Lutheran) thing. I don't see it NA films and TV, but I do see something somewhat similar in some British/Anglican films & TV.

And perhaps to some degree it is the almost standard anti authority meme.

Absolutely. It's also a proto/feminist "meme". The country parish pastor, of course, represents also the patriarchal establishment.
 
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Paul of Eugene OR

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Let me start by saying I'm in a position not unlike the most conservative of Christians. I find a lot of Film and TV to be drek so I do not watch all that much, especially if one does not count sporting events.

I've seen it claimed that Christians are portrayed unfairly in Movies and TV.

Does anyone here see that as a general pattern? Either way can anyone give some specific examples?

When I started to think about this a bit I started thinking that there is cause for complaint, not on how Christians are portrayed, but rather that Christians are portrayed so little. I can see some reasons for that and any comments on that issue are also welcome.

You will see many people wearing crosses without any other comment as to their Christianity, they are simply normal characters in the movie.
 
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Ada Lovelace

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You will see many people wearing crosses without any other comment as to their Christianity, they are simply normal characters in the movie.

True, though sometimes they are symbolic of the duplicity of the character.

Episode-1x13-The-Revelator-sons-of-anarchy-2933954-333-500.jpg


Even if you've never seen Sons of Anarchy you can infer from her overall appearance and body language that she most likely is not a person who strives to model her life in accordance to the tenets of Christianity, despite prominently wearing the most dominant and recognizable symbol of it.
 
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keith99

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True, though sometimes they are symbolic of the duplicity of the character.

Episode-1x13-The-Revelator-sons-of-anarchy-2933954-333-500.jpg


Even if you've never seen Sons of Anarchy you can infer from her overall appearance and body language that she most likely is not a person who strives to model her life in accordance to the tenets of Christianity, despite prominently wearing the most dominant and recognizable symbol of it.

I have come to believe the saying:

"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" is a bit off. The final refuge is religion.

Lest people misunderstand I do not say this in any way as denigrating the true and pure forms of either, in fact it is in large part a good refuge because the good forms exist.
 
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Ada Lovelace

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A post in the Teen section about favorite TV shows in which someone included HBO's True Detective on his list made me think of some portrayals of Christians on it. I watched it while sick and dazing in and out of focus, so I only vividly recall a few snippets and do not know the full story arc or enough about the characters to put their dialogues in context.

I can't post the YouTube videos of the scene because of the language, so I'm pasting the quotes from IMBD instead. I'm just censoring out the words myself instead of letting the system do it:

Season 1, Episode 3. The detectives are at a tent for a Christian revival. This takes place in Louisiana in the 1990s. There is a crooked faith healer in front of a crowd of charismatic people who are fanning themselves. The two detectives are at the very back perimeter of the tent behind the audience, observing it all.

Cohle: What do you think the average IQ of this group is, huh?

Hart: Can you see Texas up there on your high horse? What do you know about these people?

Cohle: Just observation and deduction. I see a propensity for obesity, poverty, a yen for fairy tales. Folks putting what few bucks they do have into little wicker baskets being passed around. I think it’s safe to say that nobody here is going to be splitting the atom, Marty.

Hart: You see that, your f'ing attitude. Not everybody wants to sit alone in an empty room, beating off to murder manuals. Some folks enjoy community, the common good.

Cohle: Well, if the common good got's to make up fairy tales, then it’s not good for anybody.

Hart: I mean, can you imagine if people didn’t believe, what things they would get up to?

Cohle: Exact same things they do now, it’s just out in the open.

Hart: Bull-sh.. It’d be a f'ing freak show of murder and debauchery, and you know it.

Cohle: If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother, that person is a piece of sh.. and I’d like to get as many of them out in the open as possible.

Hart: Well, I guess your judgement is infallible, piece-of-sh..-wise. You think that notebook is a stone tablet? [Cohle habitually carries around a large ledger-size notebook for his detective notes.]

Cohle: What’s it say about life? We get together, tell yourself stories that violate every law of the universe, just to get through the godda.. day? What’s that say about your reality, Marty?

Hart: When you get to talking like this, you sound panicked.


"True Detective" The Locked Room (TV Episode 2014) - Quotes - IMDb

I found this article when I ran a search for the quotes from the scene I watched:
?True Detective?s? Godless Universe: Is the HBO Show Anti-Christian? - The Daily Beast

I don't think I'll be able to sink the time into watching the show but I'm curious about it.
 
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Let me start by saying I'm in a position not unlike the most conservative of Christians. I find a lot of Film and TV to be drek so I do not watch all that much, especially if one does not count sporting events.

I've seen it claimed that Christians are portrayed unfairly in Movies and TV.

Does anyone here see that as a general pattern? Either way can anyone give some specific examples?

When I started to think about this a bit I started thinking that there is cause for complaint, not on how Christians are portrayed, but rather that Christians are portrayed so little. I can see some reasons for that and any comments on that issue are also welcome.

Have you seen True Detective, Keith? It certainly focuses on the darker side of religion and is very critical of Evangelical Christianity within the Deep South. McConaughey, although reportedly a Christian in real life, plays a very tormented "realist" and some of his invective towards Christians (from what I can tell, they're either Pentecostal or some other Charismatic group) is very funny. If I remember correctly, only Evangelical Christianity is portrayed in the show, so they don't cover the full spectrum, but there are many references to Christianity within the show. At the end, (MINI SPOILER ALERT) the show becomes more warm to, if not full Christianity, at least some form of spiritualism, and McConaughey's once atheistic, nihilistic sort of character hints towards a changing life view.

As a sidebar, I highly recommend it. It doesn't contain nearly as much "drek" as a show like Game of Thrones, but it is very dark. It certainly is more thought-provoking and intense than most TV.

Edit: I've just read Artemis's post above, which is a transcript of the above video.

Second Edit: I'll remove the video as it does contain course language. I'll defer to the above transcript.
 
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. The priest in The Walking Dead.

I forgot about TWD. I notice more of the corrupt, evil stereotype of liturgical priests than I do the clumsy, humorous yet affable priests. I was glad that at the least they didn't portray him as evil, and although he made a big mistake on the show, it's obvious that he's penitent for what he did and it wasn't done out of malice but out of fear. I remember Herschel as well, and that he provided hospitality for Rock's group because it "was the Christian thing to do". TWD isn't too bad in terms of portraying Christians, and it certainly could be a lot worse.
 
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keith99

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Have you seen True Detective, Keith? It certainly focuses on the darker side of religion and is very critical of Evangelical Christianity within the Deep South. McConaughey, although reportedly a Christian in real life, plays a very tormented "realist" and some of his invective towards Christians (from what I can tell, they're either Pentecostal or some other Charismatic group) is very funny. If I remember correctly, only Evangelical Christianity is portrayed in the show, so they don't cover the full spectrum, but there are many references to Christianity within the show. At the end, (MINI SPOILER ALERT) the show becomes more warm to, if not full Christianity, at least some form of spiritualism, and McConaughey's once atheistic, nihilistic sort of character hints towards a changing life view.

As a sidebar, I highly recommend it. It doesn't contain nearly as much "drek" as a show like Game of Thrones, but it is very dark. It certainly is more thought-provoking and intense than most TV.

Edit: I've just read Artemis's post above, which is a transcript of the above video.

Second Edit: I'll remove the video as it does contain course language. I'll defer to the above transcript.

No I have not seen it. However being critical of Evangelical Christianity in the deep south sounds like shooting fish in a barrel.

I haven't watched Game of Throwns either. I did read all the books half a decade ago (or course only what was written then). I rather liked it. there were some interesting twists and turns. One that comes on mind they could never show on TV and even if they could the point would be lost. (It relates to oral sex and also dominance, but what is easily explained in the book by allowing us to hear the thoughts completely reverses the dominance situation from today's viewpoint. Not unlike how Brave New World makes sex clean but Motherhood dirty).

But for me Game turned a cruel corner with the Rains of Castamere incident. I'd be fine with men dying. Jut unfair a poor direwolf has to pay for a man's mistake. Oh and this was not a twist at all the outcome as far as the broad strokes goes was written in huge red letters from the point where man and wolf were separated.

EDIT: If yuo check my homepage there is one photo, me with the puppies. The black one sitting was about 14 at the time and when running free still would show the wolf origins of dogs. And either of them would follow me into hell if they thought they could help me. So the fate of the wolf did not sit well with me.
 
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godenver1

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In season 1, a dire wolf does get punished due to the immaturity and brattishness of the main antagonist. Regardless, as you're aware by reading the books, you won't find much if any references or portrayals of Christians in GoT. At the moment, there is only one season (8 episodes) of TD, so it's not a huge investment if you have a few hours to spare.

I read the link that Artemis posted above and it seems the shows creator, Nic Pizzolatto, had a bad experience with Christianity growing up. I don't know his reasons for his critique though, but it may have been influenced by his childhood.

Also, if anyone here watches Vice News on youtube, apparently TD has some basis in true life events in Louisiana.
 
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I'm not a voracious consumer of movies or TV shows, so there aren't many chances to notice how Christians are portrayed in them. Tonight there were two. My church had a screening of the 2016 rendition of Ben Hur, which they acknowledged in the invitation was a critical and box office failure, hugely missing the mark the 1959 set. The movie was followed by a discussion lead by a screenwriting professor who also used to be a producer and studio executive who is a member of the church. It was interesting because he explained how the drive to cater to capitalize on the box office success of God flicks lead to its failure. It was also reaching for the 18-40 (mostly male) demographic that loves spectacular action scenes in movie classics that are about similar historic settings, such as Gladiator. In the 1959 version of the movie the character who played Christ was never fully visible on the screen, instead appearing alongside someone else who was clear. Yet his life and tenets were more perceptible in that movie. It didn't quote scriptures, as the newer one does in an almost copy-and-paste sort of way, but instead wove in themes. The newer one lacked sincerity and emotional resonation. It was like they stapled on scenes about Christ's crucification to fit in with the promotional materials it had provided for religious organizations. It created a Bible study guide based on the movie, expecting churches to see it in flocks and then discuss, as they did ages ago with Passion. That didn't happen.

I also learned a bit about the writer of the book, Ben Hur a Tale of the Christ the movies were based on, Lew Wallace. According to legend, he'd had a stimulating conversation on a long train ride with a respected Colonel who was an atheist. The Col. had challenged Wallace about Christianity, which lead to intense introspection and research that ultimately fortified his faith and inspired him to write the book.

Anyways. The newish movie was tedious. I closed my eyes and mentally organized plans, haha. One thing I thought was cool was that you can learn a lot from a terrible movie. It reminded me of a similar screening of God's Not Dead in which we discussed how it has the spiritual and intellectual depth of an inflatable kiddie's pool that hasn't been inflated yet.
But it preached to big choirs and profited from it.

Okay, so the other reference is from this show my stepgrandmother was probably watching because it's what was on when I flipped on Netflix in the kitchen. It's titled Grace & Frankie, and it's about two septuagenarian couples going through major life and romantic change; you should Google it for the whole premise. So there's this scene where the men in the show are discussing their religious beliefs, one is Jewish but not especially adherent, the other is from a Christian background and struggling with what aspects of the Bible he believes to be literal. His mother, who is in her 90s and in a nursing home, is a big believer in fire and brimstone. She has flatly rejected him, and rejected the thoughtful gift he'd brought for her (a Kindle loaded with books), adding in passive aggressive insults about both. He's asked if he believes he's going to hell, whether he thinks it's a literal place where people burn for eternity, and struggles with the answer, showing an internal conflict between his reason and his beliefs that were ingrained in him. A quip about literally believing that God is angry about eating lobster, and God sentencing people to eternal damnation leads to a friend saying that he's always thought religion was most beneficial when taken a la carte. He said that a wise priest once told him that the afterlife is "how you're remembered by the living. Hitler was evil, and will always be remembered as evil, he's in "hell." Mother Theresa was holy and good, she will always be remembered for that. That's heaven".
 
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