Christians, have you ever been at this point in your faith before?

Danielle1234

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I'm at a really big rough patch with my faith right now. I keep having OCD blasphemous thoughts, my faith keeps decreasing then in feasting then decreasing MY FAITH IS LIKE A CRAZY ROLLERCOASTER! :( and I keep fearing blasphemy and I also fear The Holy Spirit has left me and that my heart is hardening against Hod and Jesus because I'm having a hard time believing how Lord Jesus is my Saviour. Is this a trial from God? What makes me really worried is that I'm not that concerned but still seeking more faith just not concerned. I think I'm not concerned because Jesus said He would NEVER cast away anyone. I'm not taking advantage if that verse by sinning willfully but it has kept me calm but staying calm scares me because it feels like I don't care but I do. Have you been through a rough patch like this before?
 

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You’ve asked this question in the liberal group. I think pretty much all of us would tell you that God doesn’t cause this kind of thing. God can bring good out of it, but he doesn’t cause it.

I haven’t had your experience, but there are plenty of people posting both in Christian Advice and the OCD support group who have. Because I have never had OCD there’s a limit to how helpful I can be. But I will say that faith isn’t primarily a feeling. It’s great to feel like you know God, and I pray that eventually you will be able to. But it’s not required to be counted as one of his people.

Blasphemous thoughts are one common symptom of OCD. God knows your intent. He won’t count those against you, nor do I think the Holy Spirit will be offended. Take a look at Rom 8:18-30. God knows your heart.

But please, don’t just live with this. OCD can be treated. There are people in the OCD support group who can tell you their experience.
 
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FireDragon76

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I've dealt with similar things all my life- OCD and rumination are common with individuals with an autism diagnosis.

Sometimes it is also caused by incorrect or harmful understandings of moral theology. It's very common among traditionalist catholics, affecting a sizeable minority of catholics in some studies. Protestants tend to focus more on worrying about predestination or the unpardonable sin, but they can also worry about thought intrusion the same as Catholics (I've had all those happen to me). Basically, the issue is it causes a person to feel guilt despite the objective absence of guilt, or to feel doubt or insecurity in the face of ambiguity.

Severe scrupulosity is something that needs to be handled by a mental health professional. It can be linked to OCD or depression. Many Christians throughout history have suffered from scruples, such as Martin Luther, John Bunyan, or Therese of Lisieux. In Therese's case, it was very severe and probably caused by a condition she had called St. Vitus Dance, which involves a pathogen damaging part of the brain and causing unusual movements and also obsessional anxiety and depression. In the case of Luther, it was probably caused by a lifelong depressive temperament and probably biological in origin as well.

A bit of advice I have found helpful for many of my scruples is just to do the opposite of whatever your scruples tell you to do. That actually comes from Ignatius Loyola and Alfonso Liguori. It is similar to what a psychotherapist would advise a person to do when faced by OCD.
 
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elman

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I've dealt with similar things all my life- OCD and rumination are common with individuals with an autism diagnosis.

Sometimes it is also caused by incorrect or harmful understandings of moral theology. It's very common among traditionalist catholics, affecting a sizeable minority of catholics in some studies. Protestants tend to focus more on worrying about predestination or the unpardonable sin, but they can also worry about thought intrusion the same as Catholics (I've had all those happen to me). Basically, the issue is it causes a person to feel guilt despite the objective absence of guilt, or to feel doubt or insecurity in the face of ambiguity.

Severe scrupulosity is something that needs to be handled by a mental health professional. It can be linked to OCD or depression. Many Christians throughout history have suffered from scruples, such as Martin Luther, John Bunyan, or Therese of Lisieux. In Therese's case, it was very severe and probably caused by a condition she had called St. Vitus Dance, which involves a pathogen damaging part of the brain and causing unusual movements and also obsessional anxiety and depression. In the case of Luther, it was probably caused by a lifelong depressive temperament and probably biological in origin as well.

A bit of advice I have found helpful for many of my scruples is just to do the opposite of whatever your scruples tell you to do. That actually comes from Ignatius Loyola and Alfonso Liguori. It is similar to what a psychotherapist would advise a person to do when faced by OCD.
If your scruples are from God you should not do the opposite of what they tell you to do.
 
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SFTS

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Danielle, I don't have OCD (that I know of), but yes, I have been in much similar place as you. I so feared God and "knew" I was going to hell, even though I was as faithful a believer as I tried to be, that I was starting to hear the screams of people in hell and I couldn't get it out of my mind. I was going literly nuts. I kept having this feeling that if I didn't repent and fall on my knees at that very moment I would immeadiatly die and go to hell. This happened time and time again for years. I was in absolute agony fear of not being saved. I had been raised in a fundamentalist church all my life. Finally I started serious therapy with a real psychologist (phd type, not just some counselor) and went into individual and later group therapy for nearly 8 years. In that time, I gained a strong sense of self and in time, through the conduit of others, I finally felt God's love to me and for me. I learned that I was the one who was making me depressed, no one else, not God, it was ME and my mind all that time. It was what I had been taught from those militant hardcore fundamentalists all those years that kept me devistated. It actually happened to me one day, one day while going through one of those cycles of deep depression, I kept thinking about how I am the one making me feel bad about my self. Not God, not no one else, it was me. When that finally sunk in and filled my heart, that depression left and never came back. That was 16+ years ago and I have known God's love ever since.
 
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XtianAgain

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I'm at a really big rough patch with my faith right now. I keep having OCD blasphemous thoughts, my faith keeps decreasing then in feasting then decreasing MY FAITH IS LIKE A CRAZY ROLLERCOASTER! :( and I keep fearing blasphemy and I also fear The Holy Spirit has left me and that my heart is hardening against Hod and Jesus because I'm having a hard time believing how Lord Jesus is my Saviour. Is this a trial from God? What makes me really worried is that I'm not that concerned but still seeking more faith just not concerned. I think I'm not concerned because Jesus said He would NEVER cast away anyone. I'm not taking advantage if that verse by sinning willfully but it has kept me calm but staying calm scares me because it feels like I don't care but I do. Have you been through a rough patch like this before?

First off, I'm very sorry about this situation you're dealing with. I know it can be very hard. Millions of Christians deal with psychiatric disorders. I hope you're getting help. Please, don't be ashamed. But, rather seek relief through professional help.

You're a living, breathing child of The King. Please, don't see this as a challenge from God. It is challenging, don't get me wrong. But, its a disorder. Good news though...There's relief. Praying for you!
 
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FireDragon76

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If your scruples are from God you should not do the opposite of what they tell you to do.

Do you know anything about OCD or scrupulosity? What you just said is incredibly insensitive.
 
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FireDragon76

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I don't agree. Scruples are about what is right and wrong, correct?

No. Scruples refer to a doubtful, troubled, or guilty conscience, often erroneously so. People with mental illness or incorrect moral theology can have a troubled conscience or scruples, which in fact, they are blameless.
 
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elman

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No. Scruples refer to a doubtful, troubled, or guilty conscience, often erroneously so. People with mental illness or incorrect moral theology can have a troubled conscience or scruples, which in fact, they are blameless.
No that is not the defintion of scruples.

scru·ple [skroo-puhl] Show IPA
noun
1.
a moral or ethical consideration or standard that acts as a restraining force or inhibits certain actions.
2.
a very small portion or amount.
3.
a unit of weight equal to 20 grains (1.295 grams) or 1/3 of a dram, apothecaries' weight.
4.
an ancient Roman unit of weight equivalent to 1/24 of an ounce or 1/288 of an as or pound. Compare as2 ( def 2 ) .
verb (used without object), scru·pled, scru·pling.
5.
to have scruples.
 
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technofox

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Danielle1234 said:
I'm at a really big rough patch with my faith right now. I keep having OCD blasphemous thoughts, my faith keeps decreasing then in feasting then decreasing MY FAITH IS LIKE A CRAZY ROLLERCOASTER! :( and I keep fearing blasphemy and I also fear The Holy Spirit has left me and that my heart is hardening against Hod and Jesus because I'm having a hard time believing how Lord Jesus is my Saviour. Is this a trial from God? What makes me really worried is that I'm not that concerned but still seeking more faith just not concerned. I think I'm not concerned because Jesus said He would NEVER cast away anyone. I'm not taking advantage if that verse by sinning willfully but it has kept me calm but staying calm scares me because it feels like I don't care but I do. Have you been through a rough patch like this before?

I have been there and some that. Just confess it to God what those thoughts are and they will have no power over you. I confessed exactly what the blasphemous thoughts that I have had to my ex wife when we were married and mysteriously they went away. I confessed them to God as well and was freed from them sense then.

Sometimes they do try to return, but I just let them pass as though they were any other random thought.

Also look at the bible. One cannot be saved and unsaved. To commit the unforgivable sin would require the complete rejection of Christ as your lord and savior until you die. You must believe that the spirit with Christ was not of god, like the Pharisees, and die in your sins. There is no way anyone can commit this sin and become a Christian or remain a Christian, because you would have to believe that God's spirit is evil with all of your heart and thus you would never seek the only person who can save your soul.

I hope this makes sense.
 
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elman

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I have been there and some that. Just confess it to God what those thoughts are and they will have no power over you. I confessed exactly what the blasphemous thoughts that I have had to my ex wife when we were married and mysteriously they went away. I confessed them to God as well and was freed from them sense then.

Sometimes they do try to return, but I just let them pass as though they were any other random thought.

Also look at the bible. One cannot be saved and unsaved. To commit the unforgivable sin would require the complete rejection of Christ as your lord and savior until you die. You must believe that the spirit with Christ was not of god, like the Pharisees, and die in your sins. There is no way anyone can commit this sin and become a Christian or remain a Christian, because you would have to believe that God's spirit is evil with all of your heart and thus you would never seek the only person who can save your soul.

I hope this makes sense.
I agree with your take on the unforgivable sin.
 
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Rajni

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No. Scruples refer to a doubtful, troubled, or guilty conscience, often erroneously so. People with mental illness or incorrect moral theology can have a troubled conscience or scruples, which in fact, they are blameless.

No that is not the defintion of scruples.

scru·ple [skroo-puhl] Show IPA
noun
1.
a moral or ethical consideration or standard that acts as a restraining force or inhibits certain actions.
2.
a very small portion or amount.
3.
a unit of weight equal to 20 grains (1.295 grams) or 1/3 of a dram, apothecaries' weight.
4.
an ancient Roman unit of weight equivalent to 1/24 of an ounce or 1/288 of an as or pound. Compare as2 ( def 2 ) .
verb (used without object), scru·pled, scru·pling.
5.
to have scruples.
Actually, you're both right, it's just that there's a slightly different word for
FireDragon's definition of it. It's referred to as 'scrupulosity', which is
basically when one's scruples kick into overdrive.

With regards to the OP, yes, I've been there, and can totally relate.
It wasn't a whole lot of fun.


-
 
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elman

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Actually, you're both right, it's just that there's a slightly different word for
FireDragon's definition of it. It's referred to as 'scrupulosity', which is
basically when one's scruples kick into overdrive.

With regards to the OP, yes, I've been there, and can totally relate.
It wasn't a whole lot of fun.


-

I don't think so. One can scrupuositly do something the correct way and that is good and not bad--not overdrive.
 
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camethodactor

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The dark night of the soul is common and wrestling with the Lord is common. Jesus did it, the disciples did it, the prophets before Jesus did and they came out of these struggles as more resilient people. It's ok to be angry with God and to let him have it. Give the Lord everything you have- your anger, frustration, bitterness, questions, and everything else. God is able and can handle anything. Doubt and faith complement each other. Faith helps us to wrestle with the mystery of the human condition, of our relation to God and the vastness of the universe- it says that even when we are unsure of ourselves or the ways we are going, the Lord will make a way out of what seems to be no way. Yes, we will follow, Lord, even if it means struggle, yes we will follow even when we are persecuted for righteousness sake and we will trust you even when we can't see the way ahead. The Almighty created us as thinking, feeling, emotional and spiritual beings- that we were given brains so we can grow in wisdom, in stature, and knowledge. I have been through many dark nights of the soul and some were pretty intense and yet it has strengthened my faith. I'm a seminarian, a pastor to be.
 
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lyndseyb

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I'm at a really big rough patch with my faith right now. I keep having OCD blasphemous thoughts, my faith keeps decreasing then in feasting then decreasing MY FAITH IS LIKE A CRAZY ROLLERCOASTER! :( and I keep fearing blasphemy and I also fear The Holy Spirit has left me and that my heart is hardening against Hod and Jesus because I'm having a hard time believing how Lord Jesus is my Saviour. Is this a trial from God? What makes me really worried is that I'm not that concerned but still seeking more faith just not concerned. I think I'm not concerned because Jesus said He would NEVER cast away anyone. I'm not taking advantage if that verse by sinning willfully but it has kept me calm but staying calm scares me because it feels like I don't care but I do. Have you been through a rough patch like this before?

I've suffered from this.
It was terrible and one of the reasons I joined these forums was to share my story and hopefully offer help and advice to others going through the same thing.
With scrupulosity (religous OCD) you really cant win. I spent days in constant fear and panic because I was thinking such vile blasphemous thoughts.
Then one day the fear of the horrible thoughts lessened dramatically to the point where I just felt nothing. Instead of feeling relieved, I then felt guilty when repenting because I didn't believe my repentance was genuine enough!

I overcame the blasphemous thoughts but still live with scrupulosity.
There's no magic formula to overcoming it that I can offer you. Just know that your thoughts and your true heart are not the same thing and god knows this!
Was there a trigger to you suddenly getting these thoughts? Maybe an event that happened or something you read/saw? My scrupulosity only started after reading that passage about that one sin that can't be forgiven.

Also, you say your not concerned but you were concerned enough to post on this forum. That doesn't sound like the actions of someone who doesn't care to me!

Good luck. If you're still struggling with this you can PM me anytime. :)
 
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SarahsKnight

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To the OP and anyone else here who might be experiencing a similar problem, please listen to lyndseyb in this. She's pretty much described this religious OCD and the trouble it brings quite well. Whatever happens, God knows your heart, and He understands it better than you yourself do, and I'm sure that's not nearly as fearful a truth as some might make it out to be. You might not always FEEL like you believe or are close to God, but that doesn't make it untrue.
 
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KitKatMatt

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I wanted to comment on this the first time I saw it, but I didn't because it did not address the whole post.

I feel like I kind of have to now.

I have OCD and intrusive thoughts. The thoughts are terrible and of things I would never in my life do (like hurt people and animals and be very violent). They disturb and plague me and have done so since I was a child.

No matter how disturbing they are, though, they are not blasphemous. You are not creating these things on purpose, this is just a disorder and I am positive God knows and understands. This is a challenging life to live, but we live it for a reason.

The important thing is to get proper help so you know just what you're dealing with in the diagnosis area, and to get someone who can help treat this problem with therapy and even medication. I'm on medication that has drastically reduced my episodes of intrusive thoughts and I've gone through therapy to learn how to deal with them better.

They still bother me, but not nearly as much and I feel much happier that I can handle things better. I've also built a support net with friends and family who understand and can help me wait through episodes and calm me when I come out of them (which is very necessary for me and many others with this disorder).

Having a mental disorder is not something against God, having symptoms is not blasphemous. I just really feel I needed to say that.
 
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I've suffered from this.
It was terrible and one of the reasons I joined these forums was to share my story and hopefully offer help and advice to others going through the same thing.
With scrupulosity (religous OCD) you really cant win. I spent days in constant fear and panic because I was thinking such vile blasphemous thoughts.
Then one day the fear of the horrible thoughts lessened dramatically to the point where I just felt nothing. Instead of feeling relieved, I then felt guilty when repenting because I didn't believe my repentance was genuine enough!

I overcame the blasphemous thoughts but still live with scrupulosity.
There's no magic formula to overcoming it that I can offer you. Just know that your thoughts and your true heart are not the same thing and god knows this!
Was there a trigger to you suddenly getting these thoughts? Maybe an event that happened or something you read/saw? My scrupulosity only started after reading that passage about that one sin that can't be forgiven.

Also, you say your not concerned but you were concerned enough to post on this forum. That doesn't sound like the actions of someone who doesn't care to me!

Good luck. If you're still struggling with this you can PM me anytime. :)
Thankyou love the something happened to me now I can't get the demon to leave. I'm hate the thoughts but they pop up randomly always about our magnificent holy spirit and they are vile thoughts and I love holy spirit and God and Jesus and I don't understand why our Lord can let this happen. I was reading about tg
 
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