Christians give online threats to High School girl

[heymikey80]

What faith? Sorry, I don't have faith the way I know you are trying to make it out to be.

You rely on authority. Q.E.D.

Why would act as if I am a theist? I simply keep my mouth shut about my atheism for fear of my job, livelihood, family, friendships, ect.

As most of my managers and indeed coworkers aren't theists, I'd say you're doing something that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Grizzly]

You rely on authority. Q.E.D.

As most of my managers and indeed coworkers aren't theists, I'd say you're doing something that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Not sure where you work or what part of the country you live in, but theists outnumber atheists in this country by a 9 to 1 margin. A workplace that is majority nontheist would be a rare place.

Maybe this will help you understand why some people would hide their nonbelief. Here's a poll that finds that atheists are trusted as much as rapists.

Poll: Atheists Trusted As Much As . . . Rapists « JONATHAN TURLEY

Additionally, there are no atheists that hold public office at the federal or state level (as far as I am aware). It's also very possible that his family would disown him or shun him if they found out that he was a nonbeliever.

It's not easy being an atheist in this country. I am just grateful that our nonbelief doesn't change our skin color. We'd be in a huge amount of trouble if it did.

 

[Self Improvement]

Not sure where you work or what part of the country you live in, but theists outnumber atheists in this country by a 9 to 1 margin. A workplace that is majority nontheist would be a rare place.

Maybe this will help you understand why some people would hide their nonbelief. Here's a poll that finds that atheists are trusted as much as rapists.

Poll: Atheists Trusted As Much As . . . Rapists « JONATHAN TURLEY

Additionally, there are no atheists that hold public office at the federal or state level (as far as I am aware). It's also very possible that his family would disown him or shun him if they found out that he was a nonbeliever.

It's not easy being an atheist in this country. I am just grateful that our nonbelief doesn't change our skin color. We'd be in a huge amount of trouble if it did.

I am aware of one member of the congress who is an atheist. I believe from either a western or northeastern state.

 

[Self Improvement]

Stark is the first openly atheist member of Congress, as announced by the Secular Coalition for America.[25] Stark acknowledged that he is an atheist in response to an SCA questionnaire sent to public officials in January 2007.

On September 20, 2007, Stark reaffirmed that he is an atheist by making a public announcement in front of the Humanist Chaplaincy at Harvard, the Harvard Law School Heathen Society, and various other atheist, agnostic, secular, humanist, and nonreligious groups.[26] The American Humanist Association named him their 2008 Humanist of the Year,[27] and he now serves on the AHA Advisory Board.

Pete Stark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contrast with:
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." - George Bush

Contrast with:
No, I don't know that Christians should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under the rule of law.

Oh wait, that never happened.

 

[Self Improvement]

Listen to our own members in congress discuss atheism.

"In God We Trust" Resolution - YouTube

How enlightening Mr. Franks! God isn't real? Let anarchy ensue! I mean, Christians already give death threats to high school girls, whats a little anarchy? The only thing keeping Christians from letting anarchy ensue is their religion meaning they have no real sense of morality, only that which promises grand rewards of eternal bliss and happiness. Is that correct? I certainly hope not!

You're being persecuted here in the god ol' U S of A, though Mr. Franks. Watch your back!

 

[Glass*Soul]

Please do. I am actually genuinely interested in how these Christians would defend their actions.

Alright. I'll place these scriptures in chronological order according to L. Michael White's From Jesus to Christianirty. Other scholars may vary the order somewhat.

Please note the shift in tone over time.
The II Peter passage is pretty much the nadir, but the irony of the passages in II and III John placed side-by-side is interesting.


Anyway...

Philippians 1: 15-18: "It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice."

Galatians 1:6-9: "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!"

II Corinthians 11:12-15: "And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve."

Romans 15:17-19: "I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people. Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I rejoice because of you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil."

Colossians 2:16-19: "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow."

II Thessalonians 3:14,15: "Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.

Jude 1:8-13: In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings...Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them. Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion. These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever."

I timothy 1:8-11 &18-20: We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me."

"Timothy, my son, I am giving you this command in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by recalling them you may fight the battle well, holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme."

II timothy 3:1-9: "But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people. They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

Titus 1:10-16: "For there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception, especially those of the circumcision group. They must be silenced, because they are disrupting whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain. One of Crete’s own prophets has said it: “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.” This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the merely human commands of those who reject the truth. To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good."

II Peter 2:10-22: "Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from the Lord. But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness. But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: 'A dog returns to its vomit,' and, 'A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.'"


II John 1:7-11: "I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work."


III John 1:9-10: "I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will not welcome us. So when I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, spreading malicious nonsense about us. Not satisfied with that, he even refuses to welcome other believers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church."

 

[Glass*Soul]

As most of my managers and indeed coworkers aren't theists, I'd say you're doing something that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Do you and Self Improvement work in the same location?

 

[Grizzly]

Stark is the first openly atheist member of Congress, as announced by the Secular Coalition for America.[25] Stark acknowledged that he is an atheist in response to an SCA questionnaire sent to public officials in January 2007.

Wow - I had no idea we finally broke into politics at a national level. Thanks for letting me know!

 

[Woden84]

Feel the love, yet?

I can practically feel that wonderful Christian love. It feels an awful lot like virulent hatred.

Is it possible that the bigger problem here is that none of us are particularly shocked any more when we hear about Christians making threats like this?

If this was a Jew or a Hindu, or Buddhist, in our society, that would be somewhat surprising, wouldn't it?

Christians, not so much.

I believe so yes. I've come to expect brutal threats like this from a segment of Christians.

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” Gandhi

Props to the Christians in here that are speaking out against these threats though.

 

[JGG]

I should also say that I'm watching this play out on a Christians-only thread on here. Very different perspective. On that thread it's apparently considered "defending Christianity" and Christians are the victims. I suppose in much the same way that a mugger might have someone's wallet, cash, and phone thrown at him after having his fist knocked around by the guy's face.

 

[heymikey80]

Not sure where you work or what part of the country you live in, but theists outnumber atheists in this country by a 9 to 1 margin. A workplace that is majority nontheist would be a rare place.

I'd suggest you look into statistics when documenting the concentration of managers in a group, and consider that when coworkers are also added who are self-declaredly atheists, and the numbers calculate out fairly readily.

Add in agnostics and it becomes pretty easy to arrive at this situation.

It's not rare in groups of only a dozen or so to even randomly come up with a significant number of coworkers who are atheists. Statistics being what they are, it's just easy to do the numbers and recognize the situation.

I'm just intrigued by the lack of mathematical recognition in all of this.

Maybe this will help you understand why some people would hide their nonbelief. Here's a poll that finds that atheists are trusted as much as rapists.

Poll: Atheists Trusted As Much As . . . Rapists « JONATHAN TURLEY

Wow. Almost as bad as "Republican Candidate".

You don't mind if I'm not that sympathetic.

Additionally, there are no atheists that hold public office at the federal or state level (as far as I am aware). It's also very possible that his family would disown him or shun him if they found out that he was a nonbeliever.

The Congress reflects one openly atheistic member on its own.

It's not easy being an atheist in this country. I am just grateful that our nonbelief doesn't change our skin color. We'd be in a huge amount of trouble if it did.

It's interesting that atheism is so heavily underestimated in this country. I've known many atheists for years, and it's not unusual; nor is agnosticism.

That even excludes the vast number of nominal theists who are actually agnostic or atheistic. They're very prevalent in my circles.

 

[Self Improvement]

Do you and Self Improvement work in the same location?

Perhaps I am his manager!

 

[Self Improvement]

I'd suggest you look into statistics when documenting the concentration of managers in a group, and consider that when coworkers are also added who are self-declaredly atheists, and the numbers calculate out fairly readily.

Add in agnostics and it becomes pretty easy to arrive at this situation.

It's not rare in groups of only a dozen or so to even randomly come up with a significant number of coworkers who are atheists. Statistics being what they are, it's just easy to do the numbers and recognize the situation.

I'm just intrigued by the lack of mathematical recognition in all of this.

Wow. Almost as bad as "Republican Candidate".

You don't mind if I'm not that sympathetic.

The Congress reflects one openly atheistic member on its own.

It's interesting that atheism is so heavily underestimated in this country. I've known many atheists for years, and it's not unusual; nor is agnosticism.

That even excludes the vast number of nominal theists who are actually agnostic or atheistic. They're very prevalent in my circles.

So, lets get this straight. At work you are seemingly surrounded by atheists and agnostics, yet in the Congress we are repped by one man? How do those stats work out?

 

[Glass*Soul]

I should also say that I'm watching this play out on a Christians-only thread on here. Very different perspective. On that thread it's apparently considered "defending Christianity" and Christians are the victims. I suppose in much the same way that a mugger might have someone's wallet, cash, and phone thrown at him after having his fist knocked around by the guy's face.

May we have a link?

 

[Self Improvement]

May we have a link?

Sure.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7623414/

 

[JGG]

Wow. Almost as bad as "Republican Candidate".

You don't mind if I'm not that sympathetic.

Do I not understand, or are you saying that such a comparison is justifiable?

That even excludes the vast number of nominal theists who are actually agnostic or atheistic. They're very prevalent in my circles.

Theists can be agnostic, and still be theists. How does one know that a self-proclaimed theist is actually an atheist?

 

[JGG]

May we have a link?

I'm gonna wait on that for a few hours. I set a link in their thread inviting them to come here and make their claims to actual atheists. I'm hoping one of them will arrive, and I hope, direct us all to that thread.

 

[Cabal]

So this has somehow turned into a defending atheism thread?

Sure, some atheists do the same thing (and I personally don't condone it from either side). How is this a defence of what these Christians have done to this schoolgirl?

It seems more and more these days that Christians will respond to criticism with "but they do it too". Hardly setting themselves apart, now is it? (To say nothing of the disdain Jesus Christ apparently held for hypocrisy)

 

[heymikey80]

So, lets get this straight. At work you are seemingly surrounded by atheists and agnostics, yet in the Congress we are repped by one man? How do those stats work out?

What do you think the concentration of people named "Peter" is on this forum?

Yet taking them in permutations, what are the chances that one of these threads actually has a majority of people named "Peter" in them?

 

[heymikey80]

Do I not understand, or are you saying that such a comparison is justifiable?

Are you saying that your comparison is justifiable and mine is not?

Theists can be agnostic, and still be theists. How does one know that a self-proclaimed theist is actually an atheist?

When people actually get to stating that they don't think there is a God, but supported a religious organization for another reason, then it gets rather clear.