Christians Bomb Mosque

Hermit76

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I'm not sure if any of you saw the news about the mosque bombing or not.
Mosque Terror Attack Suspect Put In Detailed Bid To Build Trump A ‘Great’ Border Wall

I heard this on NPR this morning and had to pull my car over. I know 2 of the 3 men arrested very well. I actually almost entered into a business venture with one of them a couple of times. It is a long story. However, the frightening thing is that we were all part of a non-resistant Christian group at the time. I cannot for the life of me figure out how things escalated from being basically a pacifist to bombing mosques and abortion clinics. I know the answer is "sin" but nonetheless, this was not even on the radar 3 years ago.

It makes me sick enough to just pull away from politics, the gun culture, and just live to serve God and love my neighbor. It is just sad.
 

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It makes me sick enough to just pull away from politics, the gun culture, and just live to serve God and love my neighbor. It is just sad.

It is sad (and infuriating, and horrific, etc.), but I think that this is not a bad reaction. It is good to turn to the Lord at all times, and let the world decrease so that we may better follow the Biblical call that we must decrease and He must increase. Placing our trust in the Lord and keeping our focus on Him is the answer to all problems, as difficult as that may be to realize in this chaotic, perishing world. Kyrie eleison.
 
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Wow, I can understand how it would be particularly shocking to have been associated with them.

I'm sad to see anyone acting as "Christian" opposition in this way. I do thank God that no one was hurt.

And I actually wasn't aware that America was defined as having "Anglo-Saxon heritage". Way too much Native American in me, and too much of many other things, in so many of my friends and family to see it that way.

But just sad such news has to even be reported. I can understand wanting to have no part of it.
 
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~Anastasia~

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How truly terrible and heartbreaking. Let us pray for the victims.
Hello and welcome to CF and to TAW.

Your reaction is exactly the right one. Thankfully there were no victims though. At least not of the actual bombings. I agree the whole situation needs prayer.

But I especially wanted to welcome you. :)
 
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Hermit76

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Wow, I can understand how it would be particularly shocking to have been associated with them.

I'm sad to see anyone acting as "Christian" opposition in this way. I do thank God that no one was hurt.

And I actually wasn't aware that America was defined as having "Anglo-Saxon heritage". Way too much Native American in me, and too much of many other things, in so many of my friends and family to see it that way.

But just sad such news has to even be reported. I can understand wanting to have no part of it.

THAT is really an odd thing in all of this. We were seriously in the process of joining together as a commune in Mexico. There was none of this Alt-Right stuff back then. On the contrary we discussed the opposite. This is all very very strange indeed. This guy was always eccentric and different, but nothing like this ever came up. We spent a lot of time together and I never heard anything of Anglo Saxon babble stuff. I am floored. I guess the dog does return to his vomit.
 
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Hi Hermit, I see that neither your friends, nor the Huff Post article, mentioned that they did these things "as Christians". Nevertheless, it is a frightening thing to think that you know someone well, only to be completely blindsided by something they end up doing later :(

The fact is, we can't see the heart of a man (like God can), and sometimes we have to wait to see who who a person "really" is .. not unlike those folks in Matthew 7:22-23 who believed (or at least "claimed" to believe) that they were Christians (and who, no doubt, "looked" like SUPER-Christians to their fellows in church), only to find out at the Judgment that they never were Christians to begin with.

I know how you feel (both betrayed and unsure that you'll be able to truly trust anyone ever again), because I recently had someone I thought I knew well and trusted blindside me by his actions, but fortunately, people like your friends and mine are hardly the majority among us, PTL.

I have also found that mental illness (which can come on pretty suddenly in some cases and is often hard to detect at first) is often the proximate cause of these kinds of bizarre changes in people we "thought" we knew.

I'm glad to know that no one was injured in the blast! (and again, glad to know that they didn't claim to be Christians and/or that they were doing these things for the Christian faith/for God).

Praying for you and, of course, for your friends.

--David
 
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Hermit76

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Hi Hermit, I see that neither your friends, nor the Huff Post article, mentioned that they did these things "as Christians". Nevertheless, it is a frightening thing to think that you know someone well, only to be completely blindsided by something they end up doing later :(

The fact is, we can't see the heart of a man (like God can), and sometimes we have to wait to see who who a person "really" is .. not unlike those folks in Matthew 7:22-23 who believed (or at least "claimed" to believe) that they were Christians (and who, no doubt, "looked" like SUPER-Christians to their fellows in church), only to find out one verse later that they never were Christians to begin with.

I know how you feel (both betrayed and unsure that you'll be able to truly trust anyone ever again), because I recently had someone I thought I knew well and trusted blindside me by his actions, but fortunately, people like your friends and mine are hardly the majority among us, PTL.

I have also found that mental illness (which can come on pretty suddenly in some cases and is often hard to detect at first) is often the proximate cause of these kinds of bizarre changes in people we "thought" we knew.

I'm glad to know that no one was injured in the blast! (and again, glad to know that they didn't claim to be Christians and/or that they were doing these things for the Christian faith/for God).

Praying for you and, of course, for your friends.

--David

Thanks for the comment... My family and I did see some dysfunction. I mean, it is one thing to think "that's odd" and another to fear what someone is going to do. I mean we REALLY were non-resistant. I don't think this will affect my ability to trust, but it has given me perspective on culture war and my place in it.

Btw, trust me, he probably felt he was doing God a favor in all of this. His church, if he hasn't been excommunicated before this, will most definitely denounce and excommunicate him.
 
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What's with the thread title? The article doesn't mention the word "Christian" even once.

However, the frightening thing is that we were all part of a non-resistant Christian group at the time.
No, you weren't. Maybe you thought you were part of a Christian group.
 
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Hermit76

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What's with the thread title? The article doesn't mention the word "Christian" even once.


No, you weren't. Maybe you thought you were part of a Christian group.

NO... We were part of a group of committed Christians. Just because this guy turned out bad doesn't negate the whole.
 
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I'm not sure if any of you saw the news about the mosque bombing or not.
Mosque Terror Attack Suspect Put In Detailed Bid To Build Trump A ‘Great’ Border Wall

I heard this on NPR this morning and had to pull my car over. I know 2 of the 3 men arrested very well. I actually almost entered into a business venture with one of them a couple of times. It is a long story. However, the frightening thing is that we were all part of a non-resistant Christian group at the time. I cannot for the life of me figure out how things escalated from being basically a pacifist to bombing mosques and abortion clinics. I know the answer is "sin" but nonetheless, this was not even on the radar 3 years ago.

It makes me sick enough to just pull away from politics, the gun culture, and just live to serve God and love my neighbor. It is just sad.
Yes, a lot of "traditionalism" turns out to be this. We must resist this sort of evil nonsense whenever it comes up.
 
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Gun culture has nothing to do with this. I have a safe full of guns, shoot constantly, never hunt, and sure as shootin’ (pardon the pun) would NEVER commit this kind of atrocity. This hysterical emotionalism that liberal anti-gunners are fostering grows tiresome. Guns are just tools. Fertilizer and pipes are just objects, but they can kill. At some point we need to focus on the elephant in the room called MENTAL ILLNESS, and stop blaming guns....

I'm not sure if any of you saw the news about the mosque bombing or not.
Mosque Terror Attack Suspect Put In Detailed Bid To Build Trump A ‘Great’ Border Wall

I heard this on NPR this morning and had to pull my car over. I know 2 of the 3 men arrested very well. I actually almost entered into a business venture with one of them a couple of times. It is a long story. However, the frightening thing is that we were all part of a non-resistant Christian group at the time. I cannot for the life of me figure out how things escalated from being basically a pacifist to bombing mosques and abortion clinics. I know the answer is "sin" but nonetheless, this was not even on the radar 3 years ago.

It makes me sick enough to just pull away from politics, the gun culture, and just live to serve God and love my neighbor. It is just sad.
 
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Hermit76

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Yes, a lot of "traditionalism" turns out to be this. We must resist this sort of evil nonsense whenever it comes up.

I last was with this guy in December of 2014. He was part of one of the traditional "peace churches." I am just in awe of how quickly this came up. I guess he was hiding it the entire time?
 
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Hermit76

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At some point we need to focus on the elephant in the room called MENTAL ILLNESS, and stop blaming guns....

At some point we need to stop blaming everything on Mental Illness and accept that there are just some people out there who are violent and evil. This can be cultivated by these groups. Look, they arrested three people for these crimes. What are the chances that three people in Clarence Illinois (pop: not many) would have the same "mental illness" to drive them to bomb folk?

I was in a training with a well know child psychologist once. He was going through various labels for kids. He spoke about the frustration of having parents who insist on a label. He stopped looked at us and said something very profound: "Most of the kids I see are simply 'M.A.H.'" Everyone looked at me (the SPED guy). I just shrugged. He went on to explain, "Mean as h..." When we label this as just mental illness, we give an excuse to the perps. They are culpable.
 
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So, you’re saying teenagers who obsess cutting themselves, who feel compelled to slaughter masses of people, who feel they play by a different set of rules, people marginalized and excluded when they were young, people who hurt animals and themselves, they wouldn’t profit from mental health intervention? None of them needed psychiatric care?

At some point we need to stop blaming everything on Mental Illness and accept that there are just some people out there who are violent and evil. This can be cultivated by these groups. Look, they arrested three people for these crimes. What are the chances that three people in Clarence Illinois (pop: not many) would have the same "mental illness" to drive them to bomb folk?

I was in a training with a well know child psychologist once. He was going through various labels for kids. He spoke about the frustration of having parents who insist on a label. He stopped looked at us and said something very profound: "Most of the kids I see are simply 'M.A.H.'" Everyone looked at me (the SPED guy). I just shrugged. He went on to explain, "Mean as h..." When we label this as just mental illness, we give an excuse to the perps. They are culpable.
 
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Hermit76

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So, you’re saying teenagers who obsess cutting themselves, who feel compelled to slaughter masses of people, who feel they play by a different set of rules, people marginalized and excluded when they were young, people who hurt animals and themselves, they wouldn’t profit from mental health intervention? None of them needed psychiatric care?

No... We're not talking about teenagers. We are talking about my adult friend who showed no signs of mental illness in 2014 but bombed a mosque in 2017. Don't make this into something it's not in order to feel like you have won an argument that frankly never existed.
 
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Maybe the Fast is getting to you, brother. I'm not trying to "win" some argument. Let's drop the attitude and tone and just get back to the discussion. It sounds like you're making this personal because you knew the guy.

Your post seemed to make "gun culture" linked to all this madness. I simply disagreed with you. At this point in history, we want someone or something to blame. It's human nature. We want to burn something in effigy when we're at the end of our rope. And, frankly, we Americans are at the end of our rope with all these school shootings, bombings, drive-by's, murders, and random violence. It's so draining on our national soul. So, we want a quick scarecrow to burn in effigy to feel some relief or sense of alleviating the crisis.

Perhaps your friend did not possess mental illness, perhaps he did and you were not able to perceive it? I don't know because I know neither of you. I, of course, take you at your word. But my point is that this country is LOADED with mental illness. I think it's sad that liberals tend to think conservatives are just somehow concocting a "mental illness argument" talking point to shy away from guns. It's actually not true.

As you know, I'm a teacher. I've been teaching 20 years, so I do have some perspective on how society is shifting, especially with parenting and children. I'm sure you'd respect my anecdotes also. In the current school in which I teach, I've been here since 2005. It's now 2018. In 13 years we've changed dramatically. What a difference a decade makes.

When I came to my school we had mentally ill, horrible-behaving kids. But the thing is---we had maybe 6-8 in the whole school. Then the rest of our troubled kids were just angry kids or just classic "brats." But after 13 years now we're looking at around 3-4 mentally ill kids IN EVERY CLASSROOM. Yep, you heard me right. Last year I had a girl with acute, severe paranoia. She cut herself all over, thought everyone was out to get her, talked to herself, had no friends, wandered all over the place, and all she talked about was killing herself or dying or how everyone hated her. She was never once correct. She was on psych meds. That same year I had a kid who had severe Aspergers. When ANYTHING didn't go his way in the smallest way, he'd cry, stomp his feet, have a melt-down, and run away from the rest of the class. Principal would have to chase him down and give him a "cooling off period." Then I had a second Asperger's kid who was FAR WORSE. If he scored under 95% on any test, he'd cry, pound his hand against his head, go home and tell his mom he wanted to die, talk about how unfair everyone was and how they were out to get him, etc. Then I had Lily who had severe disabilities and had some kind of undiagnosed paranoia. She thought even her friends were all out to get her. Her maturity was that of a kindergartner in sixth grade. She had no ability to control her emotions. Cried at the drop of a hat. She turned me and every other kid or adult in constantly thinking we hated her. Paranoid, frantic.

This year I have plenty of mental illness in my room. One of the kids in my room was terribly violent in his mental illness. Bipolar, ADHD, and had oppositional defiance. Completely crazy. The kid would have frequent melt-downs. In those melt-downs he'd get violent, throw things at kids, flip them off, tell them all to "F" themselves, and would ATTACK other kids. Yep, attack. He punched so many kids and injured so many kids that we had to assign behavior intervention aides to deal JUST WITH HIM! Finally, he threatened to bring a knife and firearms to school and use them on kids he hated. That was the last straw. I got him kicked out of here.

I've had mentally ill kids threaten and hurt so many other kids and many times I have felt unsafe.

So, in 13 years, my school is littered with mental illness. We have kids from kindergarten to eighth grade on our campus walking around talking to themselves, talking to trees, needing psych help, medicated with Prozac and other crazy drugs, and our school district in general is just rife with mentally ill kids and behavior out of control. It has reached such a fever pitch that now each campus has "BIA's" or "behavior intervention aides," at least 2, usually 3-4. We now are having to come up with behavior academies to accommodate the severe mentally ill and worst behaved. There was a city-wide community forum to address the out-of-control behavior and widespread inability for our district to cope with this much insanity recently. It is the #1 issue discussed at our union meetings and schoolboard meetings.

There is a nation-wide epidemic of mental illness. It's just a fact. And our country is ill-equipped at this point in time to cope with it. More kids, teens, and adults on psych drugs than any moment in history. We have a nation-wide shortage of psychologists, psychiatrists, and mental health professionals as well as institutions and offices to deal with it. I know something about this from my work PLUS I have a best friend whose daughter is mentally ill. It was a NIGHTMARE trying to get help for her! After 4 years of hardly getting any help, having cops at his house, institutionalizing his daughter and having her hospitalized over and over, only now is he getting help. The waiting list for seeing a child psychologist is like a Soviet bread line.

So when I bring up mental health, I mean it. I'm not watching Fox News, hearing the buzz words "mental health" and trying to debate you. I'm simply stating the obvious. We're in trouble as a country.

I'm a firearms enthusiast. I go to the rifle and pistol range a lot. I grew up shooting. My kids shoot. The good folks at the rifle range who own myriad firearms are not villains to whom mosque-bombers and lunatics should possibly be linked. These are mostly good people. "Gun culture" has always been there. In 1965 there was a healthy "gun culture" in America. There were hardly any school shootings anywhere? Why? In 1950 no shootings and yet plenty of hunters, shooters, and gun owners. Why? In 1980, same thing. Why in 2018 is it different?

I'm just tired of hearing guns blamed. And I'm weary of hearing gun-owners vilified and gun culture sounding like a bunch of crazed red necks with torches secretly plotting murders and mayhem.

Mental illness IS a problem. It's not the entire problem, but it's a big part. It needs to be addressed.

I'm sorry your friend did this. I'm sure it hit you hard. I can only imagine.

No... We're not talking about teenagers. We are talking about my adult friend who showed no signs of mental illness in 2014 but bombed a mosque in 2017. Don't make this into something it's not in order to feel like you have won an argument that frankly never existed.
 
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Hermit76

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Maybe the Fast is getting to you, brother. I'm not trying to "win" some argument. Let's drop the attitude and tone...

OK, I didn't read all of this. First, you slammed me this week for writing too much, and yet... Second, you have used Lent/Fasting as a weapon against me more than once so far. Third, you have a tendency to call out others for aggressiveness when you are super tough to deal with because you are super aggressive ALL the time.

I really don't want to engage you again. I won't respond to you again on this thread.
 
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