Christians are the most persecuted people in the world today

[mark46]

You have your own interpretations of the law, and your won opinions with regard to how they should be applied. You judge the courts instead of trying to understand precedent.

For example, by definition, people are NOT allowed to riot. Police are not ordered to allow riots.

The law with regarding "impeding business" was a local one. I would presume that some jurisdictions don't have this. However, considering blocking streets to be impeding business probably has little precedent. There are other laws that apply, depending on local government. There certainly is no nationally protected right to block streets.

Impeding a business yet he was not, from the videos I saw, preventing people from going in. Yet on that same note, people are allowed to riot, block streets, and similar, and police are LITERALLY ordered to stand down and not do a thing. Is that right or just, then? For they are also impeding businesses and, instead of being arrested, are actually applauded by many.

 

[Motherofkittens]

Impeding a business yet he was not, from the videos I saw, preventing people from going in. Yet on that same note, people are allowed to riot, block streets, and similar, and police are LITERALLY ordered to stand down and not do a thing. Is that right or just, then? For they are also impeding businesses and, instead of being arrested, are actually applauded by many.

On the note of somebody entering a church and reading another religion's, in most cases this is privately owned property, no? A DMV, being a governmental office, is open to public and not privately held, but governmentally held. So there is a difference; If the owner allows it, fine. Same as with, say, Walmart; If somebody stands in the greeting area of the privately owned building and shouts doomsday threats, but the managers allow it, fine, as long as he doesn't actually try to harm anybody.

I also note you didn't mention the laws I brought up preventing prayer in any public place, which goes against the first amendment stating that the government (and yes, this includes state even though it says Congress, as the fourteenth incorporated it) can neither encourage nor prohibit religions or people engaging in them (one can make the argument as well that since DMV is government-owned, they are technically again breaking the amendment by prohibiting it). Yet by making it illegal to pray, they are prohibiting people from engaging in their religion. Is this right in your view?

Are Christians as persecuted in America as elsewhere? No, not by a long shot, as has been proven; Middle East is the worst offender. Are they persecuted at all? Yes, many are, if we are to be 100% honest. As are Muslims, Atheists, Mormons, Jews, and every other religion.

Personally I believe there is good and bad in each group. And I do my best to judge (since I fail in the "Judge not", being human and all) based on one's character, not their beliefs or lack thereof. Yet when I see laws such as that passed, yes, it does anger me, particularly since, as I read, the North Carolina law mentioned, for example, actually explicitly states "Prayers in Jesus' name". So not prayers in any others, but specifically banning the words "Jesus Christ" from prayers that may be said in public.

I tried looking up the public prayer ban, I couldn't find anything (although while I was looking I saw many in the state try to make christian prayer mandatory in public schools). Can you please give the name of the law?

Also "government owened" and "public property ", while sometimes over lapping are different. Really different. I'm sure you can figure out why. Just Google those words and put "vs." between them and you'll found out.

I think in Chicago this guy got arrested for burning the flag and was in jail for a bit for that "crime" that is federally protected as free speech. This wasn't too long either.

I don't take Christian (or other) persecution lightly, when it isn't being imagined.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Being denied your rights because of your Christian beliefs when others are accommodated can be and is a form of persecution.

Which of your rights are being denied, specifically?

Being beset upon by angry mobs who organize to destroy you because of your Christian faith is a form of persecution.

Which "angry mobs" are organizing and out to destroy you because of your christian faith?

Requiring historical Christian symbols to be removed from city or county seals is a form of persecution.

No. That's upholding the secular constitution.

No, it is not crucifixion or boiling in oil or being thrown to the lions, but it is nevertheless persecution.

So far, you haven't given a single example that I can agree with.

And being driven from your homes, being subject to arrest, imprisonment, or execution because of your faith is persecution by anybody's definition.

Sure. So are you as a christian subject to such threats?

The men in orange are Christians all to be beheaded or shot.

Give it a rest already. Islamic terrorism's main victims are other muslims.
ISIS has killed way more muslims then it has killed christians.

ISIS and alike, furthermore, don't target christians specifically.
They just target anyone who doesn't belong to their own little cult. Every non-isis-muslim is a target for them. You are not special.

In fact, the hatred for atheists among ISIS folks is MUCH MUCH greater then the hatred for christians.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Killing of innocents in war is not the same thing as a Holocaust in which the Jews were specifically singled out for extermination or systematic seeking out and execution of Christians for no other reason than they were not Muslim.

I am not defending or justifying the practice of persecution of Muslims. But I would like to discuss the persecution of Christians with folks who actually understand what the topic is.

You should really inform yourself. The many muslims killed by terrorists are not just some kind of "collateral" or "caught up in crossfire".

They were targeted. They are the "wrong kind of muslim". ISIS and alike don't single out christians specifically for special treatment. Yes, ISIS most certainly persecutes. But their target group can't be called "christians". Their target group is much greater and can best be called "all non-isis-type-muslims", which actually includes most muslims.

The DOMINANT portion of their purposefully targeted victims, are muslims.

You keep going over this little annoying fact.
It is simply wrong and misleading to say that "christians are being persecuted". It is rather EVERYONE that does not believe as they do - and christians not more so then others.

In fact, other MUSLIMS more so then others.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Just one example? Here's one:

An elderly person in a benign and folksy reality show was being interviewed by somebody in a totally different context that had zero to do with that reality show or the television channel that carried it. The elderly person was asked what he thought the Bible taught about homosexuality and he expressed his opinion as a Christian about what the Bible taught. Probably fewer than 1 of 1% of Americans even heard the comment whether or not they agreed with it.

Was the personality doing the show or his show attacked by those objecting to that interview? Nope. He wasn't a professed Christian. Instead, the angry mob organized a full scale attack on the television channel the man worked for and all its main advertisers with demands that the elderly person be fired. In addition he received hate mail including death threats and was ravaged on social media.

This kind of scenario is being repeated all too frequently in this country and probably others any time a prominent figure expresses a politically incorrect faith-based opinion or conducts business in the way he/she believes the Christian life demands.

Nice anecdote.

Here's a billboard that was posted in Pensylvania:

 

[DogmaHunter]

Several ways. One way being such as North Carolina. They have a law that makes it flat out illegal to pray in ANY public place. So Christians cannot say grace before eating at a restaurant, even.

That's a pretty dumb law.
But I'm guessing it doesn't target just "christian" prayer, but all religions, right?

Another would be an example of people being arrested in California for simply reading a bible. Man Arrested for Reading Bible Aloud in California, What’s Up?

He was reading it out loud, true, and it may offend some, but it is not illegal. If anything that was offensive to people was illegal, well, it would be illegal for you to do anything. For somebody will ALWAYS find SOMETHING offensive.

The charge was not "reading the bible".

So I have provided two quick examples you can check for yourself even if need be. Good day.

Neither seems an example of persecution of christians

 

[DogmaHunter]

Not seeing a way to edit, sorry.

To expand on the offensive should not equal jail and the like, take flag burning. It seems a fair comparison, as both it and the man reading the bible are technically two sides of the freedom of speech (since it was ruled that it is considered a freedom of speech for the former). The man was arrested for doing nothing more than reading it, and people apparently found it offensive.

Now flag burning is also EXTREMELY offensive to many. Yet I cannot recall (and a quick search only shows a tweet saying it SHOULD be illegal) the last time a flag burner was arrested. If you are going to jail for being offensive, then jail the flag burners as well. If not, don't jail Christians for exercising their freedom of speech as the burners do.

Again, reading the bible was not the charge.

 

[mark46]

We seemed to have gone a bit off topic. Our new topics seem to be whether Christians are persecuted in the US, and whether ISIS singles out Christians, or just persecutes all non-ISIS Muslims.

These don't seem to address the thread which suggests that Christians are the most persecuted people in the world today. Many, many Muslim countries persecute Christians, as well as China.

Also, it is a bit misleading to call Christians a "people". Do we mean "religious group"?

 

[szechuan]

nah, Richard Spencer and his group of Nazis and White Supremacists are the most persecuted.

 

[seashale76]

Didn't read the whole thread. All I see are a lot of people arguing back and forth as to who is to blame for causing/allowing the persecution of Christians to occur and emphasizing that Christians aren't really persecuted here in the US. None of that should take away from the fact that Christians, in fact, are the most persecuted group in the world. And- since we're all here on an alleged Christian website- your task- at the very least- should be to pray for them.

 

[seashale76]

We seemed to have gone a bit off topic. Our new topics seem to be whether Christians are persecuted in the US, and whether ISIS singles out Christians, or just persecutes all non-ISIS Muslims.

These don't seem to address the thread which suggests that Christians are the most persecuted people in the world today. Many, many Muslim countries persecute Christians, as well as China.

Also, it is a bit misleading to call Christians a "people". Do we mean "religious group"?

Christians are a 'people'. This is common terminology to refer to those that are part of the body of Christ.

 

[mark46]

Christians are a 'people'. This is common terminology to refer to those that are part of the body of Christ.

Yes, we consider ourselves a "people" and many of us consider ourselves the most persecuted people. Curiously, that includes countries like the US.

For me, that is simply a misuse of the English language. Are Muslims a "people"? IMHO, "People" has two common meanings in English. It refers to the residents (or sometimes those defended from residents) of a country or country group, its "people". Most commonly "people" refers to an ethnic group. Greeks are people. Kurds are a people. Americans are a people, whether used as referring to the US or all of the Americas.

For me, those in Asia who share my faith are part of the same body. They are my brothers and sisters. But they are not my people. I understand that much of this is a matter of theological interpretation. For example, Jehovah's Witnesses deny country even makes sense. They will serve no flag. Their people are other Jehovah's Witnesses. I read Genesis much differently. We may be short time residents, but we are called upon to be part of this world, to prepare it for Christ's coming.

I find it tremendously off-putting for many Christians to consider themselves to be Christian people,, rather than being Americans, with loyalties and responsibilities to other Americans. I do NOT believe that we called upon to live apart.

 

[seashale76]

Yes, we consider ourselves a "people" and many of us consider ourselves the most persecuted people. Curiously, that includes countries like the US.

For me, that is simply a misuse of the English language. Are Muslims a "people"? IMHO, "People" has two common meanings in English. It refers to the residents (or sometimes those defended from residents) of a country or country group, its "people". Most commonly "people" refers to an ethnic group. Greeks are people. Kurds are a people. Americans are a people, whether used as referring to the US or all of the Americas.

For me, those in Asia who share my faith are part of the same body. They are my brothers and sisters. But they are not my people. I understand that much of this is a matter of theological interpretation. For example, Jehovah's Witnesses deny country even makes sense. They will serve no flag. Their people are other Jehovah's Witnesses. I read Genesis much differently. We may be short time residents, but we are called upon to be part of this world, to prepare it for Christ's coming.

I find it tremendously off-putting for many Christians to consider themselves to be Christian people,, rather than being Americans, with loyalties and responsibilities to other Americans. I do NOT believe that we called upon to live apart.

I am a Christian before anything else. Christ's Church is Israel. Being baptized into Christ is not simply a meaningless ritual to some of us. It is literal and has implications. Christians are indeed properly referred to as a people. If you object to this language, you would hate the Orthodox Church.

 

[mark46]

For me it isn't a matter of priority. Of course, I am a member of the body of Christ first. As I indicated I think that there are two. One is the theological idea of the relationship between us and the world. Many wold have us separate from the world , interacting with the world as little as possible. Others believe that we are here to live in the world, be active in it, serve the weak within it, and prepare the world for Christ.

If we choose to be separated from the world, then it might make sense to consider Christians a people. as I have said, with the English language, and within the language of science, Christianity is many things, but not a people in the same sense that, say the Inuit are a people.

I am a Christian before anything else. Christ's Church is Israel. Being baptized into Christ is not simply a meaningless ritual to some of us. It is literal and has implications. Christians are indeed properly referred to as a people. If you object to this language, you would hate the Orthodox Church.

 

[DennisTate]

Sad but true...

I pray for the persecuted church often. Not as much as I should though. The sad thing about it is "Christians" in America will consider not having coffee in the sanctuary, losing their favorite seat in church, or a long winded preached to be suffering.

This statistic makes me especially sick in view of the pretrib doctrine, which essentially says that God loves us so much he will withdraw the church before any serious persecution comes. It is like, OPEN YOUR EYES and see the world outside of your bubble. Christians all over the world fear for their life daily. It is a very pompous statement to say we don't have to endure because of (fill in the blank).

That is an exceptionally good point.

Near death experiencer Pastor Bob Jones was shown that American preachers preach.......
nationalism.... not what God wants taught.