Christianity's most inconsistent position

Nihilist Virus

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I'm sure by now we all know that most atheists are lack-of-belief atheists and not there-definitely-is-no-God atheists. Despite this, many Christians saddle atheists with the positive claim that God does not exist so they can respond to their own strawman by saying that one cannot possibly inspect every crevice reality to make such a conclusion. Yet these same Christians positively assert that no God exists aside from the God of the Bible. How do they know this? Even if their God is assumed to exist, how does the existence of a supreme deity negate the existence of a lesser deity? How can it be said that Christians are even remotely reasonable on this issue? Or do Christians allow for the possibility that, say, Thor really does or did exist?
 

RDKirk

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I'm sure by now we all know that most atheists are lack-of-belief atheists and not there-definitely-is-no-God atheists.

Do we know that? How do we know that? Do you even know that? Have there been any opinion polls?

Despite this, many Christians saddle atheists with the positive claim that God does not exist so they can respond to their own strawman by saying that one cannot possibly inspect every crevice reality to make such a conclusion. Yet these same Christians positively assert that no God exists aside from the God of the Bible. How do they know this? Even if their God is assumed to exist, how does the existence of a supreme deity negate the existence of a lesser deity? How can it be said that Christians are even remotely reasonable on this issue? Or do Christians allow for the possibility that, say, Thor really does or did exist?

Well, if we believe our God exists, then we also believe what He said about other gods.
 
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Tree of Life

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I'm sure by now we all know that most atheists are lack-of-belief atheists and not there-definitely-is-no-God atheists. Despite this, many Christians saddle atheists with the positive claim that God does not exist so they can respond to their own strawman by saying that one cannot possibly inspect every crevice reality to make such a conclusion. Yet these same Christians positively assert that no God exists aside from the God of the Bible. How do they know this? Even if their God is assumed to exist, how does the existence of a supreme deity negate the existence of a lesser deity? How can it be said that Christians are even remotely reasonable on this issue? Or do Christians allow for the possibility that, say, Thor really does or did exist?

We believe that the supreme being is the God of the Bible. That God tells us that "I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God." (Isaiah 45:5).

We know there are no others gods because God tells us there are no other gods.
 
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Nihilist Virus

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Do we know that? How do we know that? Do you even know that? Have there been any opinion polls?

I know of no atheist who definitively says that no deity can possibly exist. The closest you can find is an atheist who says that the God of the Bible cannot exist due to having contradictory properties.



Well, if we believe our God exists, then we also believe what He said about other gods.

You mean the part where he says he hates Moloch? Like the kid from God's not Dead said, "How can you hate something that doesn't exist?"
 
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We believe that the supreme being is the God of the Bible. That God tells us that "I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God." (Isaiah 45:5).

We know there are no others gods because God tells us there are no other gods.

How do you know God isn't merely stating that no other supreme being exists? Further, how do you go from "We *believe* in the God of the Bible" to "therefore, we *know* no other God exists"?
 
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Tree of Life

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How do you know God isn't merely stating that no other supreme being exists? Further, how do you go from "We *believe* in the God of the Bible" to "therefore we *know* No other God exists"?

God's word is necessarily true, truth being an attribute of God himself. So if God exists, his word alone is a proper justification of knowledge.
 
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Nihilist Virus

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God's word is necessarily true, truth being an attribute of God himself. So if God exists, his word alone is a proper justification of knowledge.

Then why does the Bible contradict itself hundreds of times? Further, how can you justify anything you just said?
 
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Southernscotty

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Thanks but do you have anything to say about the OP?
Which part, Because the open thy eyes seems to cover it.
hen why does the Bible contradict itself hundreds of times?
The only contradictions in the Word our human misunderstanding, a finite mind cannot grasp an infinite God. So if you are trying to "figure it out" Just give up and give in friend. Just accept the grace and simplicity of it all. The hard stuff is done, It is finished so we can rest in assurance of His righteousness and Him saving us by our faith in Him. It is called grace and is a free gift :]
 
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Southernscotty

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Ecclesiastes 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.

Philippians 3:9-11 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Numerous modern critics of the Bible say the resurrection of Yeshua (Jesus) is simply a myth based on pagan stories of "resurrected gods" from around the world, and that the authors of the New Testament borrowed from these myths and incorporated them into the Bible. But the similarity of two stories proves nothing about their origin or truth content. The Jews of Yeshua's time were steeped in Old Testament monotheism which had a well developed tradition of resurrection believed and taught by the Pharisees. Polytheistic pagan ideas would have been abhorrent to men who understood and practiced the Judaism of the apostles and New Testament writers.

But the strongest evidence for the historical truth of Yeshua's bodily resurrection comes from the testimony and lives of its eyewitnesses. Eleven of the twelve apostles suffered violent deaths for simply refusing to renounce their conviction and stop preaching the message that Yeshua was alive, that he was the Son of God and savior of the world. People don't generally give their lives for something which they know to be untrue. But they had seen him, and touched him, and eaten with him after his crucifixion; and they were filled with wonder. And because the apostles lived in the power of the resurrection their message went out to the whole world, not as a pagan myth, but as a deep revelation of life-changing truth and hope, for which they were willing to suffer and even give their lives.
 
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RDKirk

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I know of no atheist who definitively says that no deity can possibly exist. The closest you can find is an atheist who says that the God of the Bible cannot exist due to having contradictory properties.

That would, by definition, be an agnostic. Do they have to use all those adverbs to fit your definition of "atheist?"

Dawkins, Hawking, and Tyson have been pretty conclusive about there not being any kind of god anywhere.

You mean the part where he says he hates Moloch? Like the kid from God's not Dead said, "How can you hate something that doesn't exist?"

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God." (Isaiah 45:5), for one.
 
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RDKirk

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How do you know God isn't merely stating that no other supreme being exists?

Biblically, there are plenty of other spiritual beings, but none of them is supreme. There is only one "supreme," by definition.
 
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Nihilist Virus

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That would, by definition, be an agnostic.

False.

Do they have to use all those adverbs to fit your definition of "atheist?"

Clearly I do, seeing as how you are insisting upon using the wrong definition.

Dawkins, Hawking, and Tyson have been pretty conclusive about there not being any kind of god anywhere.

False.



"I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God."

Please re-read the OP, such as the part where I said, "Even if their God is assumed to exist, how does the existence of a supreme deity negate the existence of a lesser deity?"
 
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Then why does the Bible contradict itself hundreds of times?

There are no legitimate or substantive contradictions in Scripture.

Further, how can you justify anything you just said?

The word of the supreme being is a justification of knowledge.
 
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ewq1938

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I'm sure by now we all know that most atheists are lack-of-belief atheists and not there-definitely-is-no-God atheists.


Atheist literally means "no God" so you are altering the definition and setting up your own strawman here.

Definition of ATHEIST

atheist
noun

athe·ist | \ˈā-thē-ist \
Definition of atheist
: a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods : one who subscribes to or advocates atheism
 
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dzheremi

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I'm sure by now we all know that most atheists are lack-of-belief atheists and not there-definitely-is-no-God atheists. Despite this, many Christians saddle atheists with the positive claim that God does not exist so they can respond to their own strawman by saying that one cannot possibly inspect every crevice reality to make such a conclusion. Yet these same Christians positively assert that no God exists aside from the God of the Bible. How do they know this? Even if their God is assumed to exist, how does the existence of a supreme deity negate the existence of a lesser deity? How can it be said that Christians are even remotely reasonable on this issue? Or do Christians allow for the possibility that, say, Thor really does or did exist?

Traditional Christianity, like Judaism, maintains some idea of "the gods of the nations" (i.e., the gods of those peoples who did not worship YHWH, like Baal, Horus, Amun, Ashur, etc.), but with the understanding that these are idols or worse (Psalm 96; 1 Corinthians 10:20). Does that mean that they do or do not exist? I think a case could be made for either, but at least in my own tradition they are sometimes treated as though they do, and perhaps for the Egyptians -- having previously been worshipers of these other gods (you can even tell this in the Coptic names of some of our saints and priests like Sarabamoun, which is a combination of the gods Serapis and Amun) -- this makes more sense than the attitude of others that says that there can only ever be one being that people call god. Even the shema, the statement of ancient Israel's monotheism, says adonai eloheinu, adonai echad -- the Lord is our God, the Lord is one. It doesn't say anything about other people's gods (that's elsewhere, as in the Psalms), only about the Israelites' God.

Following this kind of attitude, we in the Coptic Orthodox Church have prayers like this one, which is the sixteenth part of the midnight praises (tasbeha) for Sundays:

Who is likened unto You, O Lord among the gods, You are the true God, the Performer of miracles.

+ You revealed Your power, to the people, and You saved Your people, with Your arm.

You descended into Hades, and brought up, those who were captives, in that place.

+ And granted us again, the freedom, as a good God, for You have risen and saved us.


+++

You will hopefully notice that it says "O Lord among the gods, you are the true God". So the gods of the nations exist in some sense, but they aren't the true God.

Yes, 'we' were doing the whole "no god but God" thing long before Muhammad and co. ever existed, and obviously we both got it from the Jews in some sense (just as the Jews were themselves influenced by others, like the Zoroastrians).

So I don't really see how this is inconsistent. You let the nations have their gods (in the sense that they'll continue to have them anyway, since that's the nature of localized/national gods), but only recognize the One God that you worship.

If you want to say that this means "Thor exists", then fine, but that's you saying that, and it doesn't do anything to shake our belief in the one God -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. +

Basically, it's more about recognition than actual physical or spiritual existence. You can worship an old can of Coca-Cola if you want to, but I'm not going to recognize that as God just because you do, even if you gather an entire tribe or millions of people who also worship your Coca-Cola can. (I'm thinking here of the phenomenon of "cargo cults" where just that sort of thing happened, in a way; it just never spread beyond isolated tribes, for obvious reasons.)
 
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Nihilist Virus

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There are no legitimate or substantive contradictions in Scripture.

Ok. Please tell me who the last king of Judah was. Was it Zedekiah, son of Josiah?

Shallum, AKA Jehoahaz (these are the same person according to Jeremiah 22:11 and 2 Kings 22:30), was 23 years old when he began to reign according to 2 Kings 23:31 and 2 Chronicles 36:2.

According to 1 Chronicles 3:15-16, Shallum is Josiah's youngest son of the four mentioned. Zedekiah is his older brother.

But then 11 years later, when Shallum is dead (though he would be 34 years old), we see that his older brother, Zedekiah, is only 21 according to 2 Kings 24:18 and 2 Chronicles 36:11.

So either Zedekiah is younger than his younger brother (I shouldn't have to say this is impossible), or else 1 Chronicles 3:15-16 does not intend to be listing the sons in order of birth despite explicitly doing so, or else it's a different Zedekiah who became king.

So was it Zedekiah, son of Jehoiakim? (This Zedekiah is nephew of the other Zedekiah.)

Jeremiah 36:30 states that God cursed Jehoiakim. Jehoiakim is told he will have no one to sit on the throne of David. And yet Zedekiah, his son, was the last king of Judah and reigned for 11 years. That prophecy would've been great had it been addressed to Zedekiah. Instead the prophecy was an immediate failure.

The word of the supreme being is a justification of knowledge.

Not even going to bother to try? Hmm.
 
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