Christianity vs. Harry Potter

[seebs]

Originally posted by gunnysgt
HEBREW LEXICON -- STRONG'S NUMBER 3785

3785 kesheph {keh'-shef} @,v,K from 3784; TWOT -- 1051a; n m

1) sorcery, witchcraft

That tells us just about nothing, because it leaves us to wonder what, exactly, are the terms denoted. Some people believe that "sorcery and witchcraft" refer specifically to the invocation of demons, or Satan in particular, to accomplish tasks. Others think that attempts to prove ESP are witchcraft. One person on this board claimed that a wife who is not submissive to her husband is practicing witchcraft.

So... I still can't even tell whether or not Harry Potter's activities are the same as what the Bible means when it discusses "witchcraft", even ignoring the question of fictional characters.

Look at it this way; compare the Malleus Maleficarum to Harry Potter. Are they describing the same thing? I don't think so.

"Witchcraft", in the sense used in the Bible, appears to denote activities involving Satan. Therefore, an activity not involving Satan is not witchcraft in this sense.

 

[pgrmretaliation]

sorry i was gone, anyway. I am paying closer attention than you think to wat you say, I am "but a child" in many of your eyes seeing as how i am only nearly 15 but that does not mean i am stupid. Harry Potter was written as a teeager's story, not a childrens story. Children today ned belief, whether it is in love, friendship, life, whatever(i might point out that those three things lead straight to GOD"S loving hands). These things have strengthened my relationship with GOD, not hindered it. I believe that love is a magic all it's own. it controls compels and in some cases destroys people. in order to be a modern christian we must live in the modern world. yes the words witch and sorcery are used, but in a fictional time. the whole word created is fictional. about the only real place is britain. hogwarts is fake, quiditch is fake, even the money is fake. i have discussed this topic with REAL witches(how ya like that neo) they say that thi is nothing like their practice and is not to be associated with them.

 

[pgrmretaliation]

neo, i you have read nearly any o the Bible it clearly states that witchcraft and magic is real, not pulling a rabbit out of a hat buusing sacreligious spells in order to acheive a goal.

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by pgrmretaliation
neo, i you have read nearly any o the Bible it clearly states that witchcraft and magic is real, not pulling a rabbit out of a hat buusing sacreligious spells in order to acheive a goal.

Neo has read the Bible), but he doesn't believe it to be true. That's different.

 

[Neo]

If you guys know of a magic spell that actually works, please let me know... so I can go and claim my $1,000,000 from Randi. http://randio.vwh.net/research/

 

[Gunny]

Harry Potter A new twist to witchcraft
http://www.exposingsatanism.org/harrypotter.htm

 

[Gunny]

Harry Potter lures kids to witchcraft-With praise from Christian leaders
http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/Harry&Witchcraft.htm

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by gunnysgt
Harry Potter A new twist to witchcraft
http://www.exposingsatanism.org/harrypotter.htm

Frankly, I think you'd have more credibility pointing to the article in the Onion.

That page is a beautiful example of starting with an opinion, then dredging and searching until you find *ANY* possible support for an opinion. It's not truthful, accurate, or reasonable in any way.

Of particular amusement to me is the way they try to make Rowling's reference to "the mind's eye" into some kind of new-age thing; they appear not to know that this is a term we've been using for the imagination for decades to centuries. Perhaps they were thinking of "the third eye", which *is* an occultist thing of some sort; it's hard to sort the ignorance out in this case.

The arguments are not merely unpersuasive; they're *funny*. The level of reading comprehension shown is simply pathetic, and these are people who clearly don't know much about the genre - either children's books *or* fantasy.

 

[Gunny]

The trouble of Harry Potter
http://www.lifesite.net/features/harrypotter/

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by gunnysgt
The trouble of Harry Potter
http://www.lifesite.net/features/harrypotter/

The phrase "the generally anti-family mainstream" leaves me quite clear on the level of bias here.

Sorry, but this is just accusations without substance.

It's a fantasy story. If it's presented correctly as such, it will do no harm. If you presented them badly enough, the Narnia books could do harm, even though they're so obviously Christian that it shocks me to this day that some people don't recognize this.

In the end, the books do a good job of presenting the endless battle of Good and Evil in a consistent and reasonable way. The books are hardly lacking in morality.

They may not be actively Christian, but many things of interest or value aren't. They're not anti-Christian, and I know a number of Christians who read them and enjoy them.

 

[Gunny]

Harry Potter and the Philosphers Stone-a Christian parent's nightmare

http://www.facingthechallenge.org/potter.htm

 

[Gunny]

Harry Potter and the Bible
http://www.abanes.com/PotterMain.html

 

[seebs]

http://www.str.org/free/commentaries/misc_topics/hapotter.htm

This is probably the best summary of the issues on both sides that I've seen. It makes the crucial point that books like this may well be in the same category as "unclean" meats; a problem for some people, and not for others.

I have mostly been arguing for why *I* don't have a problem with these books - but fairness compells me to admit that I could see why other people would, and I think that people who have a problem with books like these should not throw their concerns aside without consideration.

Also worth reading:
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/harrypotter.htm

Discusses the claims that it's leading people into Satanism. For the record, I saw the original article, and I nearly busted a gut laughing at it. I've shown it to all of my friends, and they all thought it was hilarious, too. Brilliant parody.

 

[seebs]

BTW, the additional "support" isn't helping... All you're doing is demonstrating the groupthink for which parts of the Christian community are famous. Fifty years ago, you could have found as many sites condemning interracial marriage, the terror of the age.

C. S. Lewis has been banned from libraries by well-meaning Christians. No number of "reports" changes the underlying qualities of the books.

 

[Gunny]

Those that seek God's truth in all matters may want and or need information to decide what their children should read.

Semper Fidelis
James

 

[Gunny]

Harry Potter Seduction of the Occult
http://www.cwfa.org/library/_familyvoice/2001-11/06-12.shtml

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by gunnysgt
Those that seek God's truth in all matters may want and or need information to decide what their children should read.

Yes... But they should get *all* the information, not just one side of it. I very carefully posted a link to an article which discusses legitimate concerns, and shows ways in which other concerns may be less serious.

The fact is, once you've read one or two of the "this is anti-Christian" articles, you've read 'em all. The only variance is whether or not they quote the Onion story as factual; the rest of it is pretty much a template, and about 90% of it applies word-for-word to Tolkein and Lewis, too.

 

[Gunny]

Many of the links I have posted state both pro and con regarding the Rowling books, but then you know that for you state you have visted the links. So you must be acutely aware that some of the links provide both sides of the issue.

Semper Fidelis
James

 

[Gunny]

Harry Potter-A dangerous hero
http://www.swordofthelord.com/archives/potter.htm


What's so interesting about the Bible believing Christians that are opposed to the Rowlings books is that they are using God's Word to state their objections, not opinions of man, God's Holy Word.

God speaks clearly on the latter days and the increase of demonic influence in this day and age. Biblical prohecy tells of man's nature in these Post Modern/Post Christian days we live in.

But who am I but a fool for Christ. Praise be to God for His only begotten Son that shed His precious blood for the remission of sin.

Semper Fidelis
James

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by gunnysgt
Many of the links I have posted state both pro and con regarding the Rowling books, but then you know that for you state you have visted the links. So you must be acutely aware that some of the links provide both sides of the issue.

I only read a few of 'em... one of them had an indirect link.

It's actually very interesting to read all of the arguments, and observe the gradual development of "effective" arguments over time.