Christianity --> Veganism?

[JGL53]

So why have I never seen an obese vegan if it is such a bad diet?

The only time I have seen an overweight vegetarian* is one who had a really sweet tooth and ate way too much dessert....

Rather than obese the vegans I have seen all look like "death sucking a Lifesaver". LOL.

I'm not sure looking like a victim of a famine is a good thing.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

So why have I never seen an obese vegan if it is such a bad diet?

What's your definition of obese? If we're talking about the CDC definition based on BMI, then I have.

I have a few friends that did the vegan thing...if it's such a great diet, why do many vegans have to end up taking supplements? (protein and iron)

The only time I have seen an overweight vegetarian* is one who had a really sweet tooth and ate way too much dessert.

That's pretty much the death nail whether you're vegan or not. A person who eats meat who controls their intake of sweets is going to be thin as well. There's nothing inherently fattening about eating meat...thus the reason a low-carb diet works so well for losing weight.

*Vegetarian is used here as vegetarian not a pretend vegetarian. This means not eating meat including white meat and seafood.
A person who claims to be vegetarian yet eats white meat is not a vegetarian but rather just a person who doesn't eat red meat.

Pescetarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I believe this is the practice you're referring to.

 

[JGL53]

...Question is Is it wise to use one third of fish caught for feeding animals for us to eat? While one can say no moral problem with eating fish there can be a moral problem with the way we use fish these days that they did not in Jesus day.

Agreed. Plus a case can be made that Americans eat too much meat in general, or too much cured meat. But they also eat too much processed carbohydrate and don't exercise enough. But those are other issues.

The issue at hand is that veganism is just a goofball western affectation. Even Jains eat certain types of yogurt.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

One thing I do find quite comical is that many vegans I talk to (who are vegans for "moral" reasons IE: we shouldn't eat the cute animals) are also staunchly pro-choice.

So they would oppose eating/using eggs (even from free range chickens) based on the fact that it's cruel, however they have no problem with it in respect to humans.

Both processes are terminating an embryo, yet one is viewed as a glorious expression of rights (when done for humans), and the other is viewed as a symbol of unthinkable cruelty (when done for chickens).

 

[ebia]

One thing I do find quite comical is that many vegans I talk to (who are vegans for "moral" reasons IE: we shouldn't eat the cute animals) are also staunchly pro-choice.

So they would oppose eating/using eggs (even from free range chickens) based on the fact that it's cruel, however they have no problem with it in respect to humans.

Both processes are terminating an embryo, yet one is viewed as a glorious expression of rights (when done for humans), and the other is viewed as a symbol of unthinkable cruelty (when done for chickens).

The vegan objection to eating eggs is not that one is ending the life of an embryo (since an unfertilised egg is not an embryo), but the exploitation of the living adult chicken. You're attacking a strawman.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The vegan objection to eating eggs is not that one is ending the life of an embryo (since an unfertilised egg is not an embryo), but the exploitation of the living adult chicken. You're attacking a strawman.

...notice I mentioned eggs from a free-range chicken. How would they be considered exploited?

 

[ebia]

...notice I mentioned eggs from a free-range chicken. How would they be considered exploited?

You'd need to take that up with a vegan.

 

[FreeinChrist]

And those reasons are?

Typically, a vegan diet means a diet higher in carbohydrates...which is the real enemy of American dietary health. The fine folks at the US government (when creating the food pyramid with cherry-picked "scientists") decided that the core of a healthy human diet was dependent on something humans didn't eat for thousands of years...grains. The guidelines for their "heart healthy diet" consists of 300 grams of carbs per day...and people wonder why their diet isn't working .

They made everyone afraid of animal fats (which there is absolutely nothing wrong with) and told everyone to fill up on bread and vegetable oils.

I shared this in the weight loss forum as well, but I tried the Dr. Eades diet that the creator of the documentary "Fathead" tried out.

Breakfast: 3 eggs, 4 strips of bacon, water
Lunch: Either Grilled Chicken or Burgers minus the buns, carrot or broccoli
Dinner: Fish or Ribeye (well marbled), broccoli, half cup of berries.

In 2 months, I went from 215 down to 175, and my cholesterol shifted from 140/48 to 105/62.

I'm in maintenance mode now so I do the diet above 5 days a week, and eat whatever I want on the other 2 days...however, with what I was eating, according to the "experts", I should've ballooned up in weight and my LDL should've gone through the roof, but that didn't happen.

You can lose weight from restricting calories using any diet. However, it is best to go on a diet that you can live with - as in making a life style change. I had a friend who was 40 go on the Atkins diet and she lost 60 pounds and numbers looked okay. Then she had a stroke and was never the same.

You complain about carbs - but there is a big difference between the carbs in a fresh tomato or orange or pinto beans or whole grain pasta as opposed to chips, processed crackers and bread ("enriched" worthless stuff), and processed foods with lots of sugar or corn syrup. Living on a whole food, plant based diet is just plain healthier in the long run. I tend to eat some meat once a week, though, but make sure I eat plenty of the veges and fruit and beans and lentils. I stay away from dairy.

The US government suggestions for nutrition are laughable imho. They are bought by big agra.

 

[FreeinChrist]

...notice I mentioned eggs from a free-range chicken. How would they be considered exploited?

Not sure if you can say they are exploited. Of concern with them is what they are fed and if they are given hormones or antibiotics.

Free range though is sure better than the way most chickens are raised.

 

[FreeinChrist]

The vegan objection to eating eggs is not that one is ending the life of an embryo (since an unfertilised egg is not an embryo), but the exploitation of the living adult chicken. You're attacking a strawman.

It is also about animal protein and the negative effects on the human body over time - particularly cancer and heart disease and strokes, and immunological diseases.

 

[FreeinChrist]

What's your definition of obese? If we're talking about the CDC definition based on BMI, then I have.

I have a few friends that did the vegan thing...if it's such a great diet, why do many vegans have to end up taking supplements? (protein and iron)

IF they ate correctly, they would not need those at all. There should be no need for protein supplements on the diet. Consider the elephant - they do not eat meat. They are big and strong.

The only supplement that is needed may be B12 ( or B6?). That is because we wash the produce so much and you get that from soil on the veges. I wash them well though because of other things (pesticides, herbacides, salmonella, etc)

 

[CabVet]

IF they ate correctly, they would not need those at all. There should be no need for protein supplements on the diet. Consider the elephant - they do not eat meat. They are big and strong.

Lions do not eat plants. They are big and strong. Therefore we shouldn't eat plants. See how bad that argument is?

Please remember that both elephants and lions have a completely different digestive system than ours.

 

[ebia]

Lions do not eat plants. They are big and strong. Therefore we shouldn't eat plants. See how bad that argument is?

His argument was not "elephants don't eat flesh, therefore we shouldn't" but "elephants don't eat flesh, therefore we don't need to".

 

[FreeinChrist]

well, there are human examples of strong athletic folks who are vegan, but I am more concerned about heart disease and cancer.

I am not 100% vegan, and eat meat but way, way less than before. America eats way much meat, and the statistics for heart disease and cancer increased with the increase in the amount of meat.

but it is an individual choice. My choice makes me feel healthy and more energetic.

 

[FreeinChrist]

His argument was not "elephants don't eat flesh, therefore we shouldn't" but "elephants don't eat flesh, therefore we don't need to".

I'm a she.

 

[keith99]

One thing I do find quite comical is that many vegans I talk to (who are vegans for "moral" reasons IE: we shouldn't eat the cute animals) are also staunchly pro-choice.

So they would oppose eating/using eggs (even from free range chickens) based on the fact that it's cruel, however they have no problem with it in respect to humans.

Both processes are terminating an embryo, yet one is viewed as a glorious expression of rights (when done for humans), and the other is viewed as a symbol of unthinkable cruelty (when done for chickens).

Actually you are a bit off here. Falling short of the full absurdity.

Chicken eggs are generally not fertilized. An unfertilized egg cannot grow into anything.

 

[CabVet]

His argument was not "elephants don't eat flesh, therefore we shouldn't" but "elephants don't eat flesh, therefore we don't need to".

No difference, the digestive system of elephants is completely different than ours.

 

[ebia]

No difference, the digestive system of elephants is completely different than ours.

I didn't say it was a good argument, just making clear what the argument is about

 

[CabVet]

I didn't say it was a good argument, just making clear what the argument is about

Well, to make it perfectly clear, my point was that we cannot compare our dietary needs (or shoulds, or wants, or coulds) to those of any other animal because every digestive system is uniquely adapted to their environment.

 

[FreeinChrist]

My point in saying that is that folks think they have to have meat to grow muscles, but there is protein in plants that is easily absorbed and works just fine.

While elephants have a different digestive system in terms of how food is absorbed, but there are still similarities in how nutrients are processed once absorbed. Elephants have the Kreb's cycle too from what I read.