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Featured Christianity in The Dark Ages

Discussion in 'Christian History' started by Mel333, Jul 1, 2019.

  1. Mel333

    Mel333 Active Member

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    Hi everyone,

    This is a great documentary about Christianity and the church during the decline of the Western Roman Empire if you haven't already seen it.

    Thought it's amazing to see the first Christian artworks and how Christian art and the Church evolved through the years.



    Enjoy!
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  2. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Well-Known Member

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    The Roman Empire existed during the Middle Ages.
     
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  3. Mel333

    Mel333 Active Member

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    Yes, ofcourse it still existed but it was in decline. According to google it ended 476 AD.
     
  4. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    Well, one half of it did.
     
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  5. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Well-Known Member

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    I am surprised, the idea that the Byzantine Empire wasn't really Roman persists.
     
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  6. Mel333

    Mel333 Active Member

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    Okay, I have corrected the post and put the decline of the 'Western Roman Empire'.
     
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  7. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! :D
     
  8. Brightmoon

    Brightmoon Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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    Thanks for the video
     
  9. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Yeah, it's a result of biased historiography.

    The poet Jalad al-Din Rumi got his name because he lived in what is now modern day Turkey in the 12th century. His name refers to the fact that Turkey was still considered Roman, having been only recently conquered by invading Islamic armies.
     
  10. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Those churches were very much influenced by Byzantine art and architecture. Personally, I think it looks better than the Baroque aping neo-classical forms.
     
  11. Athanasius377

    Athanasius377 Is a little right of Atilla the Hun Supporter

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    Actually it ended May 29, 1453.
     
  12. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    Again, that's a western view. Mehmet claimed conquering Constantinople made him the new Caesar. Therefore, according to the Ottomans the Roman Empire didn't end until Mehmed VI abdicated in 1922.

    Then, of course, there are the claims of the Holy Roman Empire, the Kaisers of Germany, the Tsars of Russia (all ethnic variations on "Caesar"). I'd bet Marvel Comics claims the Roman Empire still exists.
     
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  13. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Well-Known Member

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    The Ottomans and the Germans were foreigners who wanted to get recognition as "Romans", the Eastern Roman Empire was established as another Roman Empire besides the Western One.
     
  14. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    I'm aware of the history. Historians overwhelmingly consider the Byzantine Empire a continuation of the Roman, whereas they consider the Germanic, Rus, and Ottoman tribes as usurpers.

    I was alluding to the never-ending debate regarding what defines an empire, nation, ethnicity, etc. What was the Roman Empire? Was it 1) a specific collection of institutions and laws, 2) a ruling elite, 3) an ethnic group, 4) a religion, 5) a territory?

    The items in that list that allow you to call Byzantium an extension of Rome are #1 & #2. Byzantium only briefly ruled the Roman homeland (and usually during chaotic times when their authority was questionable), was constantly expanding and contracting in different regions, and largely consisted of a Greek populace (secondarily a Slavic populace).

    And if you go with #1 & #2, an argument could be made for the Ottomans, maybe even the Germans. Ruling out the Ottomans as heirs of the Roman Empire smells of the same prejudice that caused previous historians to rule out the Byzantines as Roman heirs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  15. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Well-Known Member

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    Also number 3, 4 and 5
     
  16. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    How did 3, 4, and 5 define the Byzantines as Roman but not the Ottomans?
     
  17. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    In other words, it did NOT exist during the Middle Ages--unless we are thinking of the Eastern rump often called the Byzantine Empire. But that is not how the terminology is normally used.
     
  18. Athanasius377

    Athanasius377 Is a little right of Atilla the Hun Supporter

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    Good discussion. I have read a lot about the Eastern Empire though I have not studied it on any truly academic level. I am of the opinion the Empire in the west didn’t suddenly cease with the fall of the last emperor in 476. Institutions and local governments still continued to exist even after the fifth century but on a far more neutered presence than old Imperial Rome. One can argue that it simply dissolved more and more until Charlemagne was crowned emperor in the west in 800. That was probably one of the major stepping stones to the great Schism that would take place during the Photian controversy 150 years later culminating in the Sack of Constantinople in 1204 by the Latins which cemented the Schism. That said I find it hard to accept a legitimate empire in the west given the Eastern Empire power during this time.
     
  19. Athanasius377

    Athanasius377 Is a little right of Atilla the Hun Supporter

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    I see your point and you bring up some really good arguments. There are some striking similarities between the Ottomans and the Eastern Empire. The Millet system comes to mind. That said I think there are too many differences between the two to say they are truly successors to Rome. To be fair, the Eastern Empire was a shadow of itself relying on mercenaries and later it’s existence as a vassal state to truly be an Empire Roman or otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  20. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Well-Known Member

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    They didn't have the same religion, their people didn't even start with Romans/Greeks but Turks.
     
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