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Featured Christianity and Transhumanism

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Theokayman1, Jul 2, 2017.

  1. CrystalDragon

    CrystalDragon Well-Known Member

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    Which is a problem because God seems to cause fear a lot in the Bible, which is the opposite of the "perfect love" people claim God is.
     
  2. TheSingularity.com

    TheSingularity.com New Member

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    For me personally, He was scary until I realized who He said I am. His Precious Treasure. Once I decided to believe that, at a really core level, it changed everything in my life. Literally.

    I had been saved for 22 years, worked in ministry, and even played Jesus in a nationwide passion play having "died" on a cross in front of over 500,000 people. You would guess that a guy like that would "get" the message of Christianity at a deep level...

    Nope... I was always "working" to "be"... I walked in a lot of fear until I decided to believe in a really radical way that nothing I could "makes" me better or worse.

    This commitment to believe the worth of my identity, I feel, has afforded the ability to reconsider the traditional teaching I learned in bible college in the 90's.

    It's feels difficult to mentally decouple from traditional interpretations but IMO time to do so in light of where we are going as a species.
     
  3. Widlast

    Widlast Well-Known Member

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    Our personalities DO NOT make up our souls, the two have little to do with each other.
    An apple is still and apple whether it is red or green, thus the color does not make the apple.
    Just the same, your personality does not make your soul. Your soul is the truly permanent part of you, your actual "immortal life force". Your personality is how you emotionally respond to the world around you.
    Brain damage can affect how someone processes emotion, but get rid of the brain altogether and the soul is still there.
     
  4. Widlast

    Widlast Well-Known Member

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    God is scary (and He should be) for those who make themselves His enemies.
    He is the Creator, absolute ruler of all Creation. The One King who is not to be irked or trifled with.
    If you paid attention to the horrendous way that most of mankind behaves you would understand why God is to be feared. He has been telling mankind for ages "behave and you get the carrot, otherwise you get the stick".
     
  5. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    Indeed..and the Lord laughs at thier schemes....
     
  6. fat wee robin

    fat wee robin Newbie

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    SO we should be like atheists ? You need to define fear .Without fear at all ,we would all walk into danger everyday . Those who never fear ,are unaware of reality .
     
  7. CrystalDragon

    CrystalDragon Well-Known Member

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    Atheists feel fear just like anyone else. Fear can be a good emotion that keeps us safe from dangers. What I meant regarding Christianity is that as I've seen some here on these forums even, fear in that cases isn't "preventing from walking into danger", it's threatening with eternal conscious torture if you don't obey and worship God. That's the bad kind of fear.
     
  8. CrystalDragon

    CrystalDragon Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like an abusive "carrot and the stick" philosophy to me.
     
  9. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

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    Atheists have internal crippling fear that they take to their death bed, in not knowing or identifying with themselves let alone any external fears that are also evidently present.

    Reverend fear of God is based on love. Fear outside of the love of God is based on intimidation and threat.

    Your definitions are complete opposites of reality, it therefore is no suprising that you say things consistently in error. Whether you do this intentionally or unintentionally, only God knows.

    In two posts, I have exposed your play, are you surprised? Tell me are you surprised? ;)
     
  10. Widlast

    Widlast Well-Known Member

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    How do you deal with unrepentant and wayward idiots? Being "nice" only supports their bad behavior.
     
  11. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    If science and technology developed ways for humans to transform their bodies and their genetic make-up to become winged creatures, is this an abuse of our creation?

    Glasses seem to be a very good thing restoring vision to twenty twenty. What about devises and implants that develop vision that can detect things at great distances, like cameras on satellites? Or hearing that enhances hearing so that virtually any sound is within our capacity to hear?
    Then there is the case of such things as Robocop, where bionics and robotics may be use to make us not just functional like before a loss of a limb, but better than before, stronger, faster, more agile?
    Would this be an abuse of our creation to retrofit out bodies with devises that give us abilities that would otherwise not be humanly possible?
    I suppose transsexing might fit into this category too in terms of morphing bodies into something that we find more to our personal liking and desires.
    I think that the traditional church teaching on such matters focus on the commandments to honor thy mother and father, and the commandment about coveting. To honor our creators is to honor the body that they have created for us, and to refrain from coveting is to refrain from wishing to be someone we are not. This often is deemed to included tattoos in traditional modes of Christian morals.

    Brain implants and genetic engineering and bionic engineering are still very much a part of the future technology. Glasses and hearing aids and artificial limbs are not much to be coveted by the able bodied. The aim not to transform humans but to restore original abilities.
    Gene splicing and genetic engineering and technological advances may well enhance the abilities of the privileged people who can afford such things to different levels of intelligence and ability such that different classes of people will negate the inherent equality of all human creation.

    Stronger, faster, smarter, superhuman abilities will be the province of those who have the means to take advantage of them.
     
  12. TheSingularity.com

    TheSingularity.com New Member

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    We all utilize tools and tech to enhance our abilities. Some are attached to our body such as a filling in our teeth, contact lenses, or screws to help a broken bone mend. Others are not, such as a knife to cut our food or a hang glider etc.

    For us to delineate between the two, saying that somehow God cares one way or the other which tools we use seems silly. It seems very legalistic. Why would He care if in our hearts we are honoring and serving Him.

    John 4:23-24... "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

    In my opinion He wants to bless us. Regardless of what tech we develope, if in our hearts we proudly separate from Him saying we don't need or have ascended above Him, this is not good. But that is a heart decision and our choice.

    For instance. We all use cars and planes to move us from one place to another faster than was ever possible in the days of Jesus. Potentially in our hearts we could get proud and say "we don't need God because look what we have built/can do... etc"
    Or, as most of us do, we simply accept the tech as just that.. Tech.

    Computing tech will enter into a different realm because the fruit it will produce will be of a spiritual nature rather than a physical nature.

    Like cars and planes produce physically, computing tech will make us "think" faster and think higher.

    So... Will God care about this? Will using computer tech be a sin..

    No. Not if in our hearts we are still honoring Him.

    Lastly, my guess is that eventually artificial intelligence will get WAY more intelligent than us. Way more. Once it does, it will be able to read the bible and help us understand it more clearly and fully.

    I realize that this idea at first can feel threatening being somehow inorganic. So it's easy to simply react in a knee jerk way and label it sin, or the beast etc... But again, if in our hearts we are honoring God in spirit and truth, why would a tool that helps us understand Him better be a problem?

    I believe satan began long ago through Darby to sew ungodly seeds into the church regarding tech. The interpretations saying that a computer chip implanted in the head or hand is somehow the of mark of the beast again seems legalistic.

    To an extent is difficult for me to write this because I grew up hearing those teachings and I realize how big and consequential are the repercussions if I am wrong.

    But even with those potential consequences, I still have to cling to the other verses in the bible that debunk Darby and his dispensational ideas.

    Darby claims that Jesus is coming back physically in the flesh. That the sky will "one day" tear open and "all at onces" every eye will see, even unbelievers...

    The "all at once" and seeing "in the flesh" part is the problem.. The bible clearly says that if any man is going to come to God he must first believe that He exists. So how will a man be in God's presence if he never believes? He won't... Instead, the man will just die an go off into the darkness, separated from God.
    This is one verse that makes me not believe in the idea that God is going to physically come back with fire and brimstone while unbelievers are still here.

    Instead, I think it makes more sense that super-computers, implanted and working in unison with our brains in a direct interface, will help us process the entire bible all at once. No more scripture memory because we will be able to download the entire thing. No longer will we connect a few passages of scripture here and there.... Instead, our eyes will be opened to the REAL truth of who God is.

    We will be able to process all of the verses in the bible all at once. This is what super computers do. They process data faster than our brains can. Do you try to cut a steak with your hand or do you use a knife as a tool? So why try to process the meat of God's word without using tools? And the tools will be SOOOO good.

    We will know the thoughts of God toward us. If this scares someone, they need to double check their theology because if they are scared, it means they don't understand that God sees them as valuable. Instead at their base level faith, they believe that His thoughts toward them are angry. They are operating in a fearful orphan/worthless spirit. This is not how God sees them, but it is how they believe He sees them. Once, by faith, they choose to believe that they are His Precious Treasure, then they will be able to walk in that love and acceptance rather than in fear of punishment.

    He loves us SO much! And via tech, we are going to see and understand His love in ways we never have been able to before.

    In this way, via tech, I believe that Jesus is coming back..... In the spirit, setting up His kingdom in the hearts and minds of men here on earth. Where two or more are gathered in His name, there He is in their midst. I believe this is happening.

    The Jews wanted a deliverer that came back with force and who could be seen. But that was and is not how Jesus works. This is the same today. Many Christians still want a Jesus to deliver them and "prove" they were right all along... This is not how Jesus works because it is not by faith. Remember, anything that is not of faith is sin.

    So in my opinion, Jesus will not come back in a way that men can see Him without seeing Him by faith.

    I believe that right now we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

    However I believe that when we augment our brains with computer interfaces, we will be able to share our faith, our entire way of thinking, the best parts with each other quickly and easily. With all of our brains processing the word of God all at once, ruminating on it from all of our different perspectives, I believe we will begin to know fully, even as we are fully known.

    Remember, this is knowing Him more fully as well as knowing each other, the beautiful and valuable creations of God, more fully.

    In light of these blessings and fruits that will be produced from the spiritual tools that we are building, it makes sense that satan would try to steer us away from this.

    Satan is angry because he knows his time is short. The instant we start connecting with each other, and building each other up in love, is the instant that he is booted out.

    This is why satan wants to keep us separated. But that won't happen. he is getting booted out.

    :)
     
  13. CrystalDragon

    CrystalDragon Well-Known Member

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    There's a difference between "discipline" and "malevolent torture".
     
  14. Widlast

    Widlast Well-Known Member

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    Could you define the difference in a sensible way? Without pretending much more wisdom than you have?
     
  15. CrystalDragon

    CrystalDragon Well-Known Member

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    "God did say no man will live past 120 years".

    1. The Bible said it and it was written by many people over centuries.
    2. Try telling that to the people who have lived beyond 120.
     
  16. CrystalDragon

    CrystalDragon Well-Known Member

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    Disciplining someone is, say, when a child does something bad in the eyes of a parent. The parent may have the child's privileges taken away, have them do chores, or simply have them think about what they've done until they learn their lesson. That's discipline.

    "Malevolent torture" is throwing someone into an eternal burning fire, just because they don't listen to you, if they do something as simple as "not believe in you", for all eternity. That is malevolent torture. That is what God does with hell. That is evil.
     
  17. The Times

    The Times Well-Known Member

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    The point is a cutoff limit, that is corroborated by historical data. Those that live beyond 120 certainly account for 0.000001% ok!
     
  18. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I found one documented case of a woman named Jeanne Calment living to be 122 years old. This refutes Genesis 6:3 that predicted no one would live past 120.

    There were numerous people who lived to be 115 or older. Elsewhere it was estimated that 1 in 1000 may live to be 100.
     
  19. 2Timothy2:15

    2Timothy2:15 Well-Known Member

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    Bible Answer:
    There are three verses that are relevant to your question. They are Gen. 5:32, 6:3 and 7:6.

    Noah was five hundred years old, and Noah became the father of Shem, Ham, and Japheth. (NASB) Genesis 5:32

    Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” (NASB) Genesis 6:3

    Now Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of water came upon the earth. (NASB) Genesis 7:6

    The first passage, Genesis 5:32, says that Noah was 500 years old when he became the father of Shem, Ham, and Japheth. The third passage tells us that the flood started when Noah was 600 years of age. That means that flood occurred 100 hundred years after his sons had been born. The question before us is since Genesis 6:3 occurs between Genesis 5:32 and Genesis 7:6, to what does the 120 years refer?

    First View
    The first view believes that the middle passage is not a prophecy about the coming flood. This view says that due to man’s sin, God announced a judgment on men and women that they would no longer live more than 120 years. But this view cannot be supported by the fact that men and women continued to live longer than 120 years even though their length of days were dropping. That is the testimony of Genesis 11:10-26, Genesis 23:1; 25:7; Genesis 47:28. Notice that Sarah lived to be 127 years (Gen. 23:1), Abraham lived to 175 years (Gen. 25:7), and Jacob lived 147 years before dying (Gen. 47:28).

    A previous question titled, “Where did Noah come from?” provides a chronological timeline of Noah’s ancestral line. The flood occurred about 1,556 years after Adam and Eve were created. After the flood the length of life began to shorten, but men continued to live longer than 120 years for a long time.

    Later in Psalm 90 God indicates that it is very difficult for anyone to live past 80 years of age.

    As for the days of our life, they contain seventy years, or if due to strength, eighty years, yet their pride is but labor and sorrow; for soon it is gone and we fly away. (NASB) Psalm 90:10

    Second View
    The second view states that Genesis 6:3 is a prophecy of the coming flood. This is possible even though the verse occurs between Genesis 5:32 and Genesis 7:6. Notice the additional details about the creation of Adam and Eve that were provided in Genesis 2:4-25 after a lengthy description of the creation was given in Genesis 1. It is clear that Genesis 2:4-25 did not occur after Genesis 1. The creation account in Gen. 2:4-25 merely overlaps the creation account given in Genesis 1. This reveals that the book of Genesis is not always chronological. The beginning of Genesis 6 does not follow after Genesis 5 chronologically. The purpose of Genesis 5 is to provide a genealogical account from Adam to Noah. It would be awkward and strange to interrupt the genealogical account in order to insert a prophecy about the destruction of the world by a flood. Thus there is no discrepancy for the event described in Genesis 6:3 to have actually occurred prior to Noah’s five hundredth birthday and the births of his children.

    Further, note that the birth of Noah’s sons is actually given six verses later in v. 9-10. This implies that Genesis 6:3 occurred before the birth of Noah’s sons. It should further be noted that God speaks to Noah about building the ark in the verses after the statement in v. 9-10 about the birth of Noah’s sons. This reveals that God’s request of Noah to build the ark occurred after the births. Therefore, Noah’s ark was constructed in less than 100 years since Noah was 500 years old when his sons were born and since the flood began when Noah was 600 years old. This means that Noah would have had to construct some of the ark on his own without the help of his sons.

    Conclusion:
    From 1) the flow of the announcement, 2) the fact that the birth of Noah’s sons was repeated after Genesis 6:3 and 3) since men and women continued to live longer than 120 years we conclude that Genesis 6:3 is an announcement of the coming flood, a warning that God will not tolerate man’s sin forever and not a statement about the longevity of man’s life.
     
  20. fat wee robin

    fat wee robin Newbie

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    Much longer that that . Think of Frankenstein
    and the nazis, before that .^_^
     
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