Christian women & Headcovering??

jovanovic

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i am playing Assassins Creed Brotherhood right now on ps4, its set in middle age italy which was deeply christian, all women is covering the hair. this game deals in historical fact. i can not help but feel sad when i play this game because it reminds me of how women have lost their christian faith....look at the muslim women, they are wearing their hijab with HONOR even thought it is 2018.
 
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creslaw

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It's also entirely possible that Paul is attempting to make a point about unity by appealing to the cultural expectations of his readers, in order to point out that such things don't actually matter.

There's also something simply to be said about the fact that it would be pretty out of character for Paul, who championed Christian freedom of conscience on trivial matters, to become dogmatic about local Greek hair fashions.

Also let's consider some context, in 1 Corinthians 10 Paul has laid out that as Christians we come together to the Lord's Table at the Eucharist, and it is entirely inappropriate to participate in pagan practices. And yet when he instructs the Corinthian Christians to avoid food sacrificed from idols if they know that's where the food comes from, he specifically says that this is for the sake of conscience--not their own, but of others. Because food sacrificed to idols is meaningless, and if one eats such food with a clear conscience then nothing wrong has transpired--but one is to be mindful of others in such matters, so as to not lead a weaker brother to stumble. Immediately after this comes discussion on head dress and hair, and he speaks of the common Greek fashion/practice of the time (Paul, as a Jew, would have covered his head during worship at the Synagogue or Temple, as all Jewish men were expected to).

As such Paul's statement "we have no such custom" makes sense here, because he's not establishing some divinely ordained universal practice on male and female hair fashion or headdress; but instead in keeping with previous statements, "Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God," (1 Corinthians 10:32). This isn't an issue worth having a tiff over.

-CryptoLutheran
When I read 1 Corinthians 11:1-15 I do not see any indication that Paul regards the covering as a trivial or optional matter. To interpret verse 16 this way seems contrary to the points he has previously made in this passage quite strongly.

It seems to me that Paul is distinguishing between the sexes here as he did when comparing the husband & wife to Christ & the Church.

The practice has a symbolic function but is immediately followed by what is often called "the Lord's Supper" which also has a symbolic but very important function.
 
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Paidiske

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A gentle reminder to everyone of this part of Christian Forum's rules:

"Stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian is not allowed."

That falls under "flaming." I suggest we conduct ourselves in this topic without suggesting that those with whom we disagree are not Christian.
 
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Arsenios

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Just because a woman is bareheaded doesn't mean she's lost her faith. It means the way she expresses it has changed.
Change in expression reflects a change in faith...

Not a loss of all faith... But a change from one thing to a differing thing...

And yes, there are holy bare-headed women!

Arsenios
 
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Paidiske

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Change in expression reflects a change in faith...

Not a loss of all faith... But a change from one thing to a differing thing...

I'm not sure I completely agree. For example, my family are migrants. My mother might go to church here and worship in a different language, with different local customs and liturgy, and so forth, than what she grew up with. But she would be expressing the same faith she had before she left her home country.

Faith and expression are like an object and its packaging; you can change the packaging (the expression) while the object so packaged (the faith) remains the same.
 
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Timahani

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Take note of verse 16.

"But if anyone is disposed to be contentious—we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God."

It is not apostolic custom or church practice to force women to cover their heads.

Paul is speaking from Greek standards of dress and appearance, not establishing universal precedent--and what he is talking about is not some law or mandate that exists by divine order, either from Paul, the other apostles, or the rest of the Church.

-CryptoLutheran

Actually , I have been apart of the apostolic church on and off for 12 years. Apostolics due veil. In addition, they do not believe in wearing jewelry and makeup. I am not apostolic , I am Pentecostal . However, I have gotten into trouble for not veiling; hence I decided to ask this question LOL. :smile::smile::smile:

 
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Timahani

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Thanks to all of you who are commenting! I am thoroughly reading your information and taking everything into consideration!!!!!!

My question would still stand: If those chapters of the Bible were irrelevant, why are other monotheistic faith such as: the jews, muslims, some Christians still following that? Are they all misinterpreting the scriptures? or do they know something that we do not know.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Actually , I have been apart of the apostolic church on and off for 12 years. Apostolics due veil. In addition, they do not believe in wearing jewelry and makeup. I am not apostolic , I am Pentecostal . However, I have gotten into trouble for not veiling; hence I decided to ask this question LOL. :smile::smile::smile:


By apostolic I'm referring to the Apostles, not to the modern denomination(s) by that name.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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When I read 1 Corinthians 11:1-15 I do not see any indication that Paul regards the covering as a trivial or optional matter. To interpret verse 16 this way seems contrary to the points he has previously made in this passage quite strongly.

It seems to me that Paul is distinguishing between the sexes here as he did when comparing the husband & wife to Christ & the Church.

The practice has a symbolic function but is immediately followed by what is often called "the Lord's Supper" which also has a symbolic but very important function.

Here's the thing though, hair length is culturally informed. In Greco-Roman culture of the time, short hair on men and long hair on women was the norm. But this is not a universal phenomenon. There's nothing inherently masculine about short hair and there's nothing inherently feminine about long hair--these are purely functions of culture. If you think otherwise, perhaps you'd like to let Samson know how not feminine he was on account of his long hair (which was necessitated by the lifelong vow to God he had).

And as far as head coverings go, remember that head coverings were part of the required garb of the kohanim (Exodus 39:28).

So on this my point is simply this: It seems very strange for Paul to establish as some kind of everlasting commandment for the Church that women must have long hair (long compared to what?) and men have short hair (short compared to what?), that men are forbidden to cover their heads (do I need to remove my hat when it is raining just so I can pray?) and women obligated to veil themselves. The idiosyncrasies of a particular cultural norm at a very particular time as a universal rule for all, everywhere is very bizarre, and is out of character for Paul. of that is in fact what he's doing.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Rajni

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Christian hijabis are a thing, too:

Musings of a Christian Hijabi – Amber Rene – Medium

I like wearing headscarves and wouldn't mind doing so more.
I haven't worn them hijab-style yet, though.

One benefit from a practical standpoint is that they eliminate
the concerns that come with hairstyles. I've had "bad hair days",
but I've never had a "bad scarf day". :)
-
 
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Paidiske

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I've read Muslim women talking about a "bad hijab day." From a purely practical point of view, I can see benefits and drawbacks to head wear of various kinds. But if the conversation has moved to practical things, then that seems to me to concede that it's not a spiritual requirement.
 
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Dave-W

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Paul was a great man, but he wasn't perfect.
I find that a very dangerous position to take. (at least as far as Paul's writings are concerned)
 
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Dave-W

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When I read 1 Corinthians 11:1-15 I do not see any indication that Paul regards the covering as a trivial or optional matter. To interpret verse 16 this way seems contrary to the points he has previously made in this passage quite strongly.

It seems to me that Paul is distinguishing between the sexes here as he did when comparing the husband & wife to Christ & the Church.
Not necessarily. Verse 4 is normally rendered something like "Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head;" but is more accurately rendered as something that "... downs the head."

That is why most Messianic men wear a skull cap (kippa); and on morning services a prayer shawl. (Tallit)

hqdefault.jpg


So the head covering is allowed (if not commanded) for both men and women.
 
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Norbert L

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Simply put, Have Christian women traded in their divine values to follow worldly fashion?

A theologian, (who has a Masters Degree in Christian theology) and who is very popular on you tube stated that : " Christian Women should be covering their head with a headscarf because it is our modest duty to the Lord; as written in the Holy Bible's New Testament".

Before you stone me, :tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy: I am NOT stating that I am in favor of the idea. As I have forever enjoyed modesty without the veil. However, if I am in error and if I am in ANY way shape or form not pleasing the Lord; then I need to look into this further!

To save you time on explanations: 1) I realize that we are no longer under the Old Testament; however there are scriptures in the NT that clearly state that women should cover their heads.

Most importantly, I think it is important to know that : GOD DOES NOT CHANGE!!!
So my question still stands: Are Christian women dishonoring God by not wearing a head covering?

**** Please no responses based upon worldly concepts of fashion. I would like to be advised based on the word of God. Thank you :blush:
The following explanation about the scripture in question gives the best interpretation I have heard of what the apostle Paul and his first century audience were thinking:


The important reason to consider that information is to understand the difference between what we think the scripture is saying and what Christians in the first century knew what Paul was saying.
 
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TerryWoodenpic

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Women wore headcoverings in Church Services for the first thousand years of Christianity...

Christian women are wearing them to this day and hour...

They are the traditional attire for joyful Christian women of all ages...
View attachment 223614

View attachment 223612


Arsenios
A thousand years ago women would have worn head coverings anyway, as part of their normal attire. Just as they do in some cultures today.
I do not see anything specifically religious in this.
 
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RDKirk

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i am playing Assassins Creed Brotherhood right now on ps4, its set in middle age italy which was deeply christian, all women is covering the hair. this game deals in historical fact.

Umm, nope.

i can not help but feel sad when i play this game because it reminds me of how women have lost their christian faith....look at the muslim women, they are wearing their hijab with HONOR even thought it is 2018.

Yes, let's start looking to Muslim practice for how we should treat women in Christianity.
 
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RDKirk

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Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoreth his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head unveiled dishonoreth her head.

Seems pretty clear to me. At most, ladies when you are praying or prophesying for the congregation, cover your heads. Any other time, don't bother.

Women covered their heads in church when I was a kid. With hats. Big, big, hats. Really big hats. Big, ostentatious hats.

I don't think that was Paul's point in any respect.
 
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