Christian women & Headcovering??

[Timahani]

Simply put, Have Christian women traded in their divine values to follow worldly fashion?

A theologian, (who has a Masters Degree in Christian theology) and who is very popular on you tube stated that : " Christian Women should be covering their head with a headscarf because it is our modest duty to the Lord; as written in the Holy Bible's New Testament".

Before you stone me, I am NOT stating that I am in favor of the idea. As I have forever enjoyed modesty without the veil. However, if I am in error and if I am in ANY way shape or form not pleasing the Lord; then I need to look into this further!

To save you time on explanations: 1) I realize that we are no longer under the Old Testament; however there are scriptures in the NT that clearly state that women should cover their heads.

Most importantly, I think it is important to know that : GOD DOES NOT CHANGE!!!
So my question still stands: Are Christian women dishonoring God by not wearing a head covering?

**** Please no responses based upon worldly concepts of fashion. I would like to be advised based on the word of God. Thank you

 

[corinth77777]

Simply put, Have Christian women traded in their divine values to follow worldly fashion?

A theologian, (who has a Masters Degree in Christian theology) and who is very popular on you tube stated that : " Christian Women should be covering their head with a headscarf because it is our modest duty to the Lord; as written in the Holy Bible's New Testament".

Before you stone me, I am NOT stating that I am in favor of the idea. As I have forever enjoyed modesty without the veil. However, if I am in error and if I am in ANY way shape or form not pleasing the Lord; then I need to look into this further!

To save you time on explanations: 1) I realize that we are no longer under the Old Testament; however there are scriptures in the NT that clearly state that women should cover their heads.

Most importantly, I think it is important to know that : GOD DOES NOT CHANGE!!!
So my question still stands: Are Christian women dishonoring God by not wearing a head covering?

**** Please no responses based upon worldly concepts of fashion. I would like to be advised based on the word of God. Thank you

In the end ....or the end result should always be the goal or what one is aiming for....
If your head is covered but you are a mean person everyday ....does it matter that your head is covered. Should we wear Sandler and live in tents, should we sell all we have and divided to those who have not. Should we get rid of Tv...because it is like an Idol. Should we speak The language of that day?

We are under the law of Christ...It would be nice if we just begun to practice love once a day...smile

 

[corinth77777]

Share where scripture states women should cover their heads under the New Covenant...

 

[Arsenios]

Simply put, Have Christian women traded in their divine values to follow worldly fashion?

A theologian, (who has a Masters Degree in Christian theology) and who is very popular on you tube stated that : " Christian Women should be covering their head with a headscarf because it is our modest duty to the Lord; as written in the Holy Bible's New Testament".

Before you stone me, I am NOT stating that I am in favor of the idea. As I have forever enjoyed modesty without the veil. However, if I am in error and if I am in ANY way shape or form not pleasing the Lord; then I need to look into this further!

To save you time on explanations: 1) I realize that we are no longer under the Old Testament; however there are scriptures in the NT that clearly state that women should cover their heads.

Most importantly, I think it is important to know that : GOD DOES NOT CHANGE!!!
So my question still stands: Are Christian women dishonoring God by not wearing a head covering?

**** Please no responses based upon worldly concepts of fashion. I would like to be advised based on the word of God. Thank you

Traditional Christian women in traditional Christian Churches worldwide are consistently found with head coverings - Also known as prayer shawls... My Church encourages but does not judgementally enforce this as any kind of "policy"... However many Christian Monasteries, perhaps most, do ask women to wear head coverings, long sleeves and long skirts/dresses, on their grounds and in their Services...

One consequence of this is to help one's own concentration in the prayers of the Services, and another is to reduce the opportunity for distraction by others (men) also in attendance... Concentration of the mind in prayer is the goal...

That one "Pray without ceasing..."

Arsenios

 

[dreadnought]

Simply put, Have Christian women traded in their divine values to follow worldly fashion?

A theologian, (who has a Masters Degree in Christian theology) and who is very popular on you tube stated that : " Christian Women should be covering their head with a headscarf because it is our modest duty to the Lord; as written in the Holy Bible's New Testament".

Before you stone me, I am NOT stating that I am in favor of the idea. As I have forever enjoyed modesty without the veil. However, if I am in error and if I am in ANY way shape or form not pleasing the Lord; then I need to look into this further!

To save you time on explanations: 1) I realize that we are no longer under the Old Testament; however there are scriptures in the NT that clearly state that women should cover their heads.

Most importantly, I think it is important to know that : GOD DOES NOT CHANGE!!!
So my question still stands: Are Christian women dishonoring God by not wearing a head covering?

**** Please no responses based upon worldly concepts of fashion. I would like to be advised based on the word of God. Thank you

No, I do not believe women are dishonoring God by not covering their heads in church. I believe it was Paul who said women should cover their heads in church, but Paul wasn't Jesus and Paul wasn't God.

 

[Timahani]

In the end ....or the end result should always be the goal or what one is aiming for....
If your head is covered but you are a mean person everyday ....does it matter that your head is covered. Should we wear Sandler and live in tents, should we sell all we have and divided to those who have not. Should we get rid of Tv...because it is like an Idol. Should we speak The language of that day?

Hi Corinth 7777,

You asked a question, "Does it matte if our head is covered?". That answer is not suppose to be answered by me; since, I do not make God laws.

Should we live in tent? ( Some people in Africa still live in tents if that is their preference).

Should we get rid of t.v? ( I do not have a t.v nor allow my foster children to watch t.v)
Should we speak the Language of that day? (No, because we live in America. Unless we want to study the Biblical language)

Does it matter if we cover our head?: (well , if God has mandated it as a form of modesty, who am I to question it).

My point is that other ancient religions like Islam, still follow the laws exactly how it was written in terms of : head covering, modesty, dietary restrictions. My point being, just because we live in a different "age and culture" does not mean we can do whatever we want as long as it adheres to the guidelines of what is "popular within that culture".

Respectfully speaking, this is something that I am confused about, but I appreciate your comment !!!!

 

[Timahani]

No, I do not believe women are dishonoring God by not covering their heads in church. I believe it was Paul who said women should cover their heads in church, but Paul wasn't Jesus and Paul wasn't God.

Wasn't Paul inspired by God to write these scriptures? Also, we find that the same head coverings were mandated in Deutoronomy....hmm ...

 

[Timahani]

Share where scripture states women should cover their heads under the New Covenant...

God stated: "that we should worship God in Spirit and in Truth"!
spirit means= according to the way God wants it done.
truth means= according to the word of God. Not according to our feelings or how we would like to worship God. (David Lynn)

1 Corinthians 11: 3-16 This is a very long verse about the hair covering. So I will not type it all , but you are free to look it up!!!

Blessings

 

[dreadnought]

Wasn't Paul inspired by God to write these scriptures? Also, we find that the same head coverings were mandated in Deutoronomy....hmm ...

Paul was a great man, but he wasn't perfect.

 

[Abaxvahl]

Simply put, Have Christian women traded in their divine values to follow worldly fashion?

A theologian, (who has a Masters Degree in Christian theology) and who is very popular on you tube stated that : " Christian Women should be covering their head with a headscarf because it is our modest duty to the Lord; as written in the Holy Bible's New Testament".

Before you stone me, I am NOT stating that I am in favor of the idea. As I have forever enjoyed modesty without the veil. However, if I am in error and if I am in ANY way shape or form not pleasing the Lord; then I need to look into this further!

To save you time on explanations: 1) I realize that we are no longer under the Old Testament; however there are scriptures in the NT that clearly state that women should cover their heads.

Most importantly, I think it is important to know that : GOD DOES NOT CHANGE!!!
So my question still stands: Are Christian women dishonoring God by not wearing a head covering?

**** Please no responses based upon worldly concepts of fashion. I would like to be advised based on the word of God. Thank you

As per 1 Corinthians 11, yes they are ("Every man who prays or prophesies while having something on his head dishonors his head, but every woman who prays or prophesies with uncovered head dishonors her head..."). He also has another thing similarly related in Timothy, "Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger and dispute. Likewise also the women should adorn themselves in appropriate clothing, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold jewelry or pearls or expensive clothing, but with good deeds which are fitting for women who profess godliness." These things all go into the "as we ought" of prayer, completing "what we ought" (as there is a proper method and disposition mandatory for prayer).

For an excellent guide to prayer worth studying (that includes these things) is "On Prayer" by Origen.

 

[creslaw]

God stated: "that we should worship God in Spirit and in Truth"!
spirit means= according to the way God wants it done.
truth means= according to the word of God. Not according to our feelings or how we would like to worship God. (David Lynn)

1 Corinthians 11: 3-16 This is a very long verse about the hair covering. So I will not type it all , but you are free to look it up!!!

Blessings

Do you think 1 Corinthians 11:1-16 is talking about hair or a hair covering?

 

[hedrick]

I've read several commentaries on this passage. There is lots of information on 1st Cent customs, but the resulting understandings of just what Paul means are quite varied and hard to decide between. All, however, assume that hair covering (or length of hair, which is also a possible understanding) show something about attitudes towards male and female. Rejecting the normal covering or length thus indicates that the person doesn't accept their proper relationship to God and the opposite gender. That Paul is accepting existing ideas of what hair covering means is clear in 11:14. He is not creating a special Christian type of dress.

Today hats are no longer customary for women. Indeed in my church if a woman wore a hat in worship it would probably be considered showing off, or even discourteous to the people behind her. This is precisely opposite to what Paul wanted, which was to dress so as to show respect.

A note on 14. "Nature" doesn't likely mean animals in the forest. They don't, after all, wear hats. Rather, it means "how things are." That can include custom. Calvin comments: "Now he means by ‘natural’ what was accepted by common consent and usage at that time.… For long hair was not always regarded as a disgraceful thing in man."

 

[ViaCrucis]

1 Corinthians 11: 3-16 This is a very long verse about the hair covering. So I will not type it all , but you are free to look it up!!!

Blessings

Take note of verse 16.

"But if anyone is disposed to be contentious—we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God."

It is not apostolic custom or church practice to force women to cover their heads.

Paul is speaking from Greek standards of dress and appearance, not establishing universal precedent--and what he is talking about is not some law or mandate that exists by divine order, either from Paul, the other apostles, or the rest of the Church.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[creslaw]

Take note of verse 16.

"But if anyone is disposed to be contentious—we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God."

It is not apostolic custom or church practice to force women to cover their heads.

It is helpful to consider other translations of verse 16

RSV: If any one is disposed to be contentious, we recognize no other practice, nor do the churches of God.

NIV: If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.

I have difficulty getting past verse 15: For long hair is given to her as a covering.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It is helpful to consider other translations of verse 16

RSV: If any one is disposed to be contentious, we recognize no other practice, nor do the churches of God.

NIV: If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.

I have difficulty getting past verse 15: For long hair is given to her as a covering.

At which point the Greek text should be examined:

Εἰ δέ τις δοκεῖ φιλόνεικος εἶναι ἡμεῖς τοιαύτην συνήθειαν οὐκ ἔχομεν οὐδὲ αἱ ἐκκλησίαι τοῦ θεοῦ

ἡμεῖς τοιαύτην συνήθειαν οὐκ ἔχομεν

The first word is ἡμεῖς, the first person plural pronoun, i.e. "we".
The second word is τοιαύτην, meaning "of this sort" or "kind" or "such".
The third word is συνήθειαν, meaning "habit" or "custom".
The fourth word is οὐκ, the negative particle , i.e. "not".
The fifth word is ἔχομεν, meaning "to posses" or "to have" though grammatically here as in "we have".

"We have no such custom"

-CryptoLutheran

 

[creslaw]

At which point the Greek text should be examined:

Εἰ δέ τις δοκεῖ φιλόνεικος εἶναι ἡμεῖς τοιαύτην συνήθειαν οὐκ ἔχομεν οὐδὲ αἱ ἐκκλησίαι τοῦ θεοῦ

ἡμεῖς τοιαύτην συνήθειαν οὐκ ἔχομεν

The first word is ἡμεῖς, the first person plural pronoun, i.e. "we".
The second word is τοιαύτην, meaning "of this sort" or "kind" or "such".
The third word is συνήθειαν, meaning "habit" or "custom".
The fourth word is οὐκ, the negative particle , i.e. "not".
The fifth word is ἔχομεν, meaning "to posses" or "to have" though grammatically here as in "we have".

"We have no such custom"

-CryptoLutheran

Many translations have rejected this rendering because if "we have no such custom" refers to the covering, then you have contextual inconsistency.

Perhaps "we have no such custom" refers to being contentious.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Many translations have rejected this rendering because if "we have no such custom" refers to the covering, then you have contextual inconsistency.

Perhaps "we have no such custom" refers to being contentious.

It's also entirely possible that Paul is attempting to make a point about unity by appealing to the cultural expectations of his readers, in order to point out that such things don't actually matter.

There's also something simply to be said about the fact that it would be pretty out of character for Paul, who championed Christian freedom of conscience on trivial matters, to become dogmatic about local Greek hair fashions.

Also let's consider some context, in 1 Corinthians 10 Paul has laid out that as Christians we come together to the Lord's Table at the Eucharist, and it is entirely inappropriate to participate in pagan practices. And yet when he instructs the Corinthian Christians to avoid food sacrificed from idols if they know that's where the food comes from, he specifically says that this is for the sake of conscience--not their own, but of others. Because food sacrificed to idols is meaningless, and if one eats such food with a clear conscience then nothing wrong has transpired--but one is to be mindful of others in such matters, so as to not lead a weaker brother to stumble. Immediately after this comes discussion on head dress and hair, and he speaks of the common Greek fashion/practice of the time (Paul, as a Jew, would have covered his head during worship at the Synagogue or Temple, as all Jewish men were expected to).

As such Paul's statement "we have no such custom" makes sense here, because he's not establishing some divinely ordained universal practice on male and female hair fashion or headdress; but instead in keeping with previous statements, "Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God," (1 Corinthians 10:32). This isn't an issue worth having a tiff over.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[TerryWoodenpic]

When I was a boy during WW2 most men and women wore hats.
women also wore hats in church. (they were difficult to put on and remove)
Today few men or women wear hats except for protection.
and no one does so in our church.
Not even women priests
(what would a woman priests hat look like?)
Men and Women Bishops wear a Mitre. but remove it when officiating.
Traditionally men removed hats in church to show respect.
How would would it show respect for a woman to put one on?
Is that not a double standard?

 

[Paidiske]

(what would a woman priests hat look like?)

I have seen women in birettas...

I have occasionally worn a hat in church, in winter when it's cold and a hat makes sense. I've never worn one when presiding. Ordained women have pretty much adopted the (male) norms of clerical dress.

 

[Arsenios]

Women wore headcoverings in Church Services for the first thousand years of Christianity...

Christian women are wearing them to this day and hour...

They are the traditional attire for joyful Christian women of all ages...

Arsenios