Christian view of "sensuality" and pleasure

[VCR-2000]

As an "agnostic" or bad/weak Christian, I known that Christianity warns others about sensual things like eating, sex, attractiveness, a lot of this stuff. But, do you think God meant to create the system we see as if those are always inherently evil or sinful?

Jesus also even said in Matthew 22:30 (there was also another iteration elsewhere in the bible) that "they will neither marry, nor be given in marriage..." so it seems that Jesus said we won't be married or have a similar kind of intimacy with the opposite sex of any kind at all in Heaven. That is one thing that made me feel even repulsed and one part that "helped" my faith slowly wither until the point today.

I don't feel like I can completely accept Jesus or God anymore. I used to be more spiritual or at least tried to be when I was younger, I thought that I was going to be able to have a partner, but the narrative about not being with someone who I can look at with physical passion, be naked with, and have an exclusive intimacy that I could've missed seeing on earth (seems that there is a two-tiered system in place) have made me disillusioned. I also became more disillusioned because I was born at the time where my generation will be the one alive to see everything become really awful and then it would just end.

That is kind of where it stems from, why do you believe it is fair too? That other people, Christian and non-Christian alike got to acquire something that seems to be denied to a significant group of people who desire it but are denied it, either because God said no or the world makes it hard or difficult in some way?

What about when God said we will see whatever we would desire? Is desiring a partner of the opposite sex to be with somehow unclean to God or has become unclean in his eyes? At least a lot of Christians seem to have a subconscious belief thinking so.

I want to close here for now.

 

[Sketcher]

"Sensuality," strictly speaking, is appeal to the senses. Food looks and smells appealing, the opposite sex looks, sounds, and acts appealing. Many, many things feel good when we experience them. The problem is that we as people overdo the pursuit of pleasure. You can like food, but you shouldn't embrace that so much that you commit gluttony. You can like the opposite sex, but you shouldn't put such a high premium on pursuing them that you fornicate or commit adultery. You can even drink wine if it's legal for you to do so, but you should never get drunk. You can pursue any number of things for fun, but if you choose those things over going to church on Sunday or helping someone who is within your reach and in need, that is a problem.

 

[Sabertooth]

"You will show me the path of life;
In Your presence is fullness of joy;
At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore." Psalm 16:11 NKJV

"How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God!
Therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of Your wings.
They are abundantly satisfied with the fullness of Your house,
And You give them drink from the river of Your pleasures." Psalm 36:7-8 NKJV

God created our senses and those things that bring pleasure to them.

They are good if we enjoy them rightfully.
They are only bad when we violate Him in pursuit of them. (Then, they become an idol.)

 

[Aussie Pete]

As an "agnostic" or bad/weak Christian, I known that Christianity warns others about sensual things like eating, sex, attractiveness, a lot of this stuff. But, do you think God meant to create the system we see as if those are always inherently evil or sinful?

Jesus also even said in Matthew 22:30 (there was also another iteration elsewhere in the bible) that "they will neither marry, nor be given in marriage..." so it seems that Jesus said we won't be married or have a similar kind of intimacy with the opposite sex of any kind at all in Heaven. That is one thing that made me feel even repulsed and one part that "helped" my faith slowly wither until the point today.

I don't feel like I can completely accept Jesus or God anymore. I used to be more spiritual or at least tried to be when I was younger, I thought that I was going to be able to have a partner, but the narrative about not being with someone who I can look at with physical passion, be naked with, and have an exclusive intimacy that I could've missed seeing on earth (seems that there is a two-tiered system in place) have made me disillusioned. I also became more disillusioned because I was born at the time where my generation will be the one alive to see everything become really awful and then it would just end.

That is kind of where it stems from, why do you believe it is fair too? That other people, Christian and non-Christian alike got to acquire something that seems to be denied to a significant group of people who desire it but are denied it, either because God said no or the world makes it hard or difficult in some way?

What about when God said we will see whatever we would desire? Is desiring a partner of the opposite sex to be with somehow unclean to God or has become unclean in his eyes? At least a lot of Christians seem to have a subconscious belief thinking so.

I want to close here for now.

A lot of Christians have no idea what real life is about. God created us with certain desires and sex was introduced before mankind rebelled. It is not inherently evil. A certain denomination has been making this false claim for centuries. Eating is not evil, sex is not evil, even a glass of wine at dinner is *gasp* OK by God. Unless you are a Baptist.

It only becomes evil when misused. Sleeping around, adultery, overeating, drunkenness are evils.

Paul's recommendation not to marry was because of the persecution happening at the time. Most of the Apostles were married and marriage was normal. Paul even told married couples to ensure that they had regular sex. That does not sound like an anti-sex attitude to me.

Yes, in heaven there will be no marriages. And you won't care, I can assure you of that.

 

[Silmarien]

As an "agnostic" or bad/weak Christian, I known that Christianity warns others about sensual things like eating, sex, attractiveness, a lot of this stuff. But, do you think God meant to create the system we see as if those are always inherently evil or sinful?

I would say that the idea that these things are inherently sinful is actually a form of Gnosticism and outright heretical. Christianity doesn't teach that the physical is evil.

I would recommend taking a look at Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body if you want to see an example of Christian theology that affirms sensuality. There you'll find an approach that treats this sort of stuff as too sacred to be taken lightly, rather than rejecting it as somehow dirty.

 

[theoneandonlypencil]

As an "agnostic" or bad/weak Christian, I known that Christianity warns others about sensual things like eating, sex, attractiveness, a lot of this stuff. But, do you think God meant to create the system we see as if those are always inherently evil or sinful?

I mean, the only time I can see sensuality actually being sin is if it manifests in a sinful way. Like gluttony, addiction, vanity, premarital relations, etc..

Jesus also even said in Matthew 22:30 (there was also another iteration elsewhere in the bible) that "they will neither marry, nor be given in marriage..." so it seems that Jesus said we won't be married or have a similar kind of intimacy with the opposite sex of any kind at all in Heaven. That is one thing that made me feel even repulsed and one part that "helped" my faith slowly wither until the point today.

I'm fairly certain in that verse, Jesus is referring to the earthly covenant of marriage. If you recall, when God made Adam and Eve, he made them as a 'pair'. I think that in the new earth(which will be after heaven)could very well have a 'new' marriage system of sorts--perhaps not exactly like ours--since it is meant to represent the world before it was corrupted by sin.

It's a complex subject, really. I also hesitate to say there will be no sexual pleasure in heaven, since God did make it to be enjoyed; all I can say is you will definitely still have a bond with your spouse, as you are 'one flesh' and God knows what will be good for you and make you happy.

I don't feel like I can completely accept Jesus or God anymore. I used to be more spiritual or at least tried to be when I was younger, I thought that I was going to be able to have a partner, but the narrative about not being with someone who I can look at with physical passion, be naked with, and have an exclusive intimacy that I could've missed seeing on earth (seems that there is a two-tiered system in place) have made me disillusioned. I also became more disillusioned because I was born at the time where my generation will be the one alive to see everything become really awful and then it would just end.

There is much less indication that we are the 'final generation' than you'd think. A lot of the end times stuff is hype, and not even well thought out hype at that. You are totally free to have a significant other--and physical affection is perfectly fine as long as you both can do it in good conscience, and without 'taking it to the next level' until you're married. There's a lot of negative stigma about sex/sexual attraction in the Church that is very un-scriptural and would take me a whole other reply just to get into.

That is kind of where it stems from, why do you believe it is fair too? That other people, Christian and non-Christian alike got to acquire something that seems to be denied to a significant group of people who desire it but are denied it, either because God said no or the world makes it hard or difficult in some way?

If you don't learn to be happy with yourself and where you are, you'll never be truly happy. This is alike for christians and non-christians.

What about when God said we will see whatever we would desire? Is desiring a partner of the opposite sex to be with somehow unclean to God or has become unclean in his eyes? At least a lot of Christians seem to have a subconscious belief thinking so.

I want to close here for now.

It's not unclean. Fornication? Unclean until marriage...holding hands, forming a bond and hugging/kissing? Not unclean. In fact, sexual attraction itself, I would argue, is not a 'sin'--we're wired to be attracted to the opposite sex. If we weren't, we'd have no desire to bond or reproduce. When sexual attraction becomes lust, that's when it is a problem.

 

[Leet]

Idk why God's design is asexual in Heaven but as Aussie Pete said, we won't mind. Earth wise, the bible makes it clear sex is from Him and is meant to be pleasurable. As a married woman in a happy relationship, I can attest to this! So many details about our physical make up cause this to be so, I won't go into it but we are FEARFULLY AND WONDERFULLY MADE. Don't let anyone dirty sexuality for you. I pray you'll find a Godly woman and discover for yourself that it is good.

 

[VCR-2000]

"You will show me the path of life;
In Your presence is fullness of joy;
At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore." Psalm 16:11 NKJV

"How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God!
Therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of Your wings.
They are abundantly satisfied with the fullness of Your house,
And You give them drink from the river of Your pleasures." Psalm 36:7-8 NKJV

God created our senses and those things that bring pleasure to them.

They are good if we enjoy them rightfully.
They are only bad when we violate Him in pursuit of them. (Then, they become an idol.)

I like that you seem to be more positive than what I see some people thinking as.

 

[VCR-2000]

A lot of Christians have no idea what real life is about. God created us with certain desires and sex was introduced before mankind rebelled. It is not inherently evil. A certain denomination has been making this false claim for centuries. Eating is not evil, sex is not evil, even a glass of wine at dinner is *gasp* OK by God. Unless you are a Baptist.

It only becomes evil when misused. Sleeping around, adultery, overeating, drunkenness are evils.

Paul's recommendation not to marry was because of the persecution happening at the time. Most of the Apostles were married and marriage was normal. Paul even told married couples to ensure that they had regular sex. That does not sound like an anti-sex attitude to me.

Yes, in heaven there will be no marriages. And you won't care, I can assure you of that.

Honestly, I still get some hang up with that sort of thing not being in Heaven, but for here I might as well agree to disagree and swallow it.

 

[VCR-2000]

I'm fairly certain in that verse, Jesus is referring to the earthly covenant of marriage. If you recall, when God made Adam and Eve, he made them as a 'pair'. I think that in the new earth(which will be after heaven)could very well have a 'new' marriage system of sorts--perhaps not exactly like ours--since it is meant to represent the world before it was corrupted by sin.

So many Christians (seems 90% or more of them) have treated the opinion as something almost orthodox.

 

[VCR-2000]

Honestly, I still get some hang up with that sort of thing not being in Heaven, but for here I might as well agree to disagree and swallow it.

And on the other thing, what specific Christian denomination are you referring to?

 

[coffee4u]

As an "agnostic" or bad/weak Christian, I known that Christianity warns others about sensual things like eating, sex, attractiveness, a lot of this stuff. But, do you think God meant to create the system we see as if those are always inherently evil or sinful?

Jesus also even said in Matthew 22:30 (there was also another iteration elsewhere in the bible) that "they will neither marry, nor be given in marriage..." so it seems that Jesus said we won't be married or have a similar kind of intimacy with the opposite sex of any kind at all in Heaven. That is one thing that made me feel even repulsed and one part that "helped" my faith slowly wither until the point today.

I don't feel like I can completely accept Jesus or God anymore. I used to be more spiritual or at least tried to be when I was younger, I thought that I was going to be able to have a partner, but the narrative about not being with someone who I can look at with physical passion, be naked with, and have an exclusive intimacy that I could've missed seeing on earth (seems that there is a two-tiered system in place) have made me disillusioned. I also became more disillusioned because I was born at the time where my generation will be the one alive to see everything become really awful and then it would just end.

That is kind of where it stems from, why do you believe it is fair too? That other people, Christian and non-Christian alike got to acquire something that seems to be denied to a significant group of people who desire it but are denied it, either because God said no or the world makes it hard or difficult in some way?

What about when God said we will see whatever we would desire? Is desiring a partner of the opposite sex to be with somehow unclean to God or has become unclean in his eyes? At least a lot of Christians seem to have a subconscious belief thinking so.

I want to close here for now.

God isn't against sex and pleasure, he created it.
What he is against is sex outside of marriage. Every time God says don't do X it isn't to kill our fun its because he knows it has consequences often heartbreaking terrible consequences and this is his way of protecting us.

As to heaven, that's is the spiritual realm, how could you have children in a spiritual realm? You no longer have your physical body.

 

[bèlla]

I was born at the time where my generation will be the one alive to see everything become really awful and then it would just end.

No one knows when the end will occur. Perpetuating fear through propaganda and suppositions are successful tools for control. If you’re fixated on your demise it leaves little room to create and flourish. You’re waiting for the ax to fall.

That is kind of where it stems from, why do you believe it is fair too?

I think a lot of people are dissatisfied with themselves, their choices, and the hand they’ve been dealt. Morbidity fills the void and becomes an equalizer of sorts. The greater their disenfranchisement the deeper their fervor for the end. They have nothing to live for other than the world’s demise.

Garbage in. Garbage out. You can liberate your mind by avoiding them and their rhetoric.

What about when God said we will see whatever we would desire? Is desiring a partner of the opposite sex to be with somehow unclean to God or has become unclean in his eyes? At least a lot of Christians seem to have a subconscious belief thinking so.

If partnership wasn’t part of God’s plan He would have not ordained it. He would have populated the world by different means that didn’t require intimacy. Adam knew his wife and that was as He intended.

We often pervert the sacred by applying flawed intellect sullied by life experiences to the holy writ. Our assignment of wrong and bad applies limitations (on ourselves and others) which places the good out of reach for most.

This leads to a cycle of striving, failing and falling short which is best illustrated by the hamster’s wheel. Round and round he turns towards his mission. After a few iterations he forgets what he’s chasing. The habit is ingrained.

We devolve to the same point. Regurgitating half-truths as gospel and treating religiousness as manna. And our mindlessness hinders the spirit and dampens the light. We become automatons parroting sentiments that lost their meaning long ago.

The way beyond the stasis is active involvement. We must question, ponder, and reason. We were given those abilities for a purpose. And when doing so and encountering the Lord in our text we experience the measures of relating He undertook with individuals and groups.

This should lead us to reconsider the tropes and question their validity. Thus, if God ordained sexual intimacy in the garden the act can’t be errant. As we continue we discover the way He desires us to conduct ourselves through the examples He’s given and the principles set forth.

And we see His pleasure when we love and His mercy when we err. As our experiences deepen we notice striking differences between the God on the page and the One others describe.

We should explore the differences. Noting the inconsistencies and deceptions where applicable. If we are steadfast and utilize the word as the light and lamp David references in Psalm 119. Our feet will remain on solid ground and we won’t be tossed by every wind that blows.

~Bella

 

[Aussie Pete]

Honestly, I still get some hang up with that sort of thing not being in Heaven, but for here I might as well agree to disagree and swallow it.

What we have in this life is a mere shadow of what is to come. What would you rather have, bread and water or the greatest feast ever?

 

[VCR-2000]

Also, times are changing. This is no longer the generation where stable partnerships are dominant and today in my generation fewer people are able to find a partner and the idea of marriage is corrupted by 40-50% divorce rate among other things. There are ironically even more people who are still virgins at my age in my generation than in the past. I get the feeling that it's over and just a matter of time before it becomes futile for the majority of the population.

It's almost like catch-22.

 

[Sabertooth]

There are ironically even more people who are still virgins at my age in my generation than in the past.

Virgin-until-marriage is the Biblical ideal, so that is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[VCR-2000]

Virgin-until-marriage is the Biblical ideal, so that is not necessarily a bad thing.

I said in today's society it is almost a catch-22. Maybe that ideal was more successful in the past.

 

[Sabertooth]

Maybe that ideal was more successful in the past.

According to you, it is the de facto standard now, too. Maybe it can be navigable, then.

(I hope that you are not looking to a Christian Forum to aid your success in promiscuity...)

 

[Aussie Pete]

Also, times are changing. This is no longer the generation where stable partnerships are dominant and today in my generation fewer people are able to find a partner and the idea of marriage is corrupted by 40-50% divorce rate among other things. There are ironically even more people who are still virgins at my age in my generation than in the past. I get the feeling that it's over and just a matter of time before it becomes futile for the majority of the population.

It's almost like catch-22.

The divorce rate is skewed because it does not account for multiple divorces of the same people. Some people have unreal expectations and no spouse would be good enough for them. So they go from relationship to relationship, always blaming the other for the failure.

There are substantial numbers of marriages that do endure. That's not to say that the divorce rate is something to be proud of. But neither is the idea of enduring marriage utterly hopeless.

 

[Salvadore]

The divorce rate is skewed because it does not account for multiple divorces of the same people. Some people have unreal expectations and no spouse would be good enough for them. So they go from relationship to relationship, always blaming the other for the failure.

There are substantial numbers of marriages that do endure. That's not to say that the divorce rate is something to be proud of. But neither is the idea of enduring marriage utterly hopeless.

Anyone can endure a bad marriage. You just go into a shell. I divorced my husband. We live together as roommates now and he is being nice.