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Featured Christian Perfectionism - Jesus said "Be perfect like My Father" - Can we be?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by 1stcenturylady, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. No, only Jesus was perfect. Jesus didn't mean what He said when he asked us to be.

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  2. Yes, it is possible, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit that makes us not want to sin.

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  3. We receive imputed righteousness, like an invisibility cloak over the sins that will always remain.

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  1. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    To the last part "in time" yes, or as a result of or as they mature, but people are at different places in that...

    Anyway, I'm glad that you acknowledge that we can still make mistakes even when or while walking in the Spirit...

    God Bless!
     
  2. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    I told you that the last time you and I discussed this a couple months or so.
     
  3. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Sorry, I have some memory issues sometimes... hard to remember what everybody I encounter (on here) believes about everything...?

    God Bless!
     
  4. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    But you want to "typify" sin, right...? Put it into different categories, ect, right...?

    And my question is or would be: Are we really supposed to be doing that...?

    God Bless!
     
  5. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    I just go by the Book. Read 1 John 5:16-17 Two categories. Sins unto death, sins NOT unto death.

    Then read Numbers 15:22-36 and see that there was a sacrifice for unintentional mistakes, but no sacrifice for breaking one of the commandments of the law - thus lawlessness, 1 John 3:4

    Leviticus 5:15
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  6. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    So breaking one commandment of the law condemns us...?

    And I would also ask you to please define intentional or willful...?

    God Bless!
     
  7. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Look at how God views breaking the commandments. There was no sacrifice that covered the breaking of any of his commandments. Any time someone broke a commandment, they were stoned to death. Everyone knew the commandments, so to go ahead and break them would be a willful sin.

    Jesus took away all these sins when we repented and turned to Him. No matter if you were a murderer or a thief, all your past sins are forgiven. Jesus then gives you the Holy Spirit so we will not sin again. 1 John 3:9 shows us that the Spirit is the seed of the Father.

    Paul shows us in Hebrews 10:26-31 that once your sins are taken away, if you go back and commit lawlessness/a willful sin what further sacrifice is there? This is a hard pill for some to swallow, what with all the heretical teachings that include not only past sins, but present and future sins as well that Hebrew 10 shows to be heretical. Jude calls it turning the grace of God into lasiviousness. In other words, like what Martin Luther taught: "No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day." Are not killing and adultery two of the Ten Commandments? Thus he says the opposite of the Word of God. But it is a pleasant relief to believe the lie. That is why it is called a doctrine for itching ears, and why there are those who gravitate to such teachers.

    2 Timothy 4:3-4
    3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

    4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
     
  8. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I just having a problem with how you think this, for everybody, has to be a one time or overnight, at some point, or possibly instantaneous thing and not more of a process and walk for most...? Things happen and are learned "in time"... new perspectives/horizons open up... you always know a little more than before, and were always building on it/that... Anyway, "Overnight, instantaneous thing" where you do not ever sin or break the law afterward, now how many can live up to that, I know of only one, Jesus Christ and that's it, and no other has ever shown me they could yet, and, no offense, that would including you, K...

    Peter sinned after he was born again and had the Holy Spirit, after Pentecost, all that, and we know this well, because of being recorded being and issue between him and Paul...

    That's just one example that is one of the most plain ones...

    We all know almost all the people God chose were not perfect, and some very far from it in fact... Yet, do you think they are not saved...?

    Or was Peter forever condemned, or did he "crucify Christ anew", or whatever, and all that...?

    What do you think...?

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  9. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    You can look for loopholes and justifications all you want if that's how you live your life, but don't put me in the same boat.

    Peter and Paul never sinned a sin unto death once he had the Holy Spirit.
     
  10. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

    +383
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    Paul often talks about those special BACs who were
    "chosen and called unto holiness".
    Because ...
    "... without holiness no one will see the Lord"
    (Hebrews 12:14)
     
  11. sparow

    sparow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus didn't speak using Latin or English so He didn't say perfect; what ever He asked is attainable and is a light load. The word "perfect" usually is associated with an irrational concept that can never be achieved in nature or any activity of man.

    Apart from holiness no man can see God unless he is born again of the spirit; that is one has to be of the same spirit form as God in order to see God, or God has to be in the same human form as Jesus in order to see Him.
     
  12. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I'm looking for JUSTICE... but thank you for the judgement and assumption, and your not sinning by it of course, ect...

    You must mean breaking the OT Law or commands then, right...? I don't think you know the full scope of what all they cover and mean, first of all, ect... then, the Spirit of the Law vs. the letter, ect...

    But, God chose many people who were not obeying the commandments perfectly all the time, and would have slip ups with them sometimes... they're still saved... and God and the Holy Spirit never left them, ect... Or any of this other "baloney"...?

    God Bless!
     
  13. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    People often overlook what Jesus said about the fact we've sinned before we even do anything. The thought equals the deed as does the very animal nature of man. Animal instincts first as we are animal striving to overcome ourselves through the spirit of God which recognizes our dual nature .. born from one to another but never free of the former until death. It's all in His Gospel of the Kingdom so many ignore because they have been taught to put religion first.
     
  14. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Yes, I agree. No one can achieve perfection with their carnal nature intact. It first must die and be resurrected in the Spirit. That is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is only the Spirit that makes us dead to sin, and no longer in the flesh (carnal nature) but in the Spirit.
     
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