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Featured Christian Perfectionism - Jesus said "Be perfect like My Father" - Can we be?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by 1stcenturylady, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. No, only Jesus was perfect. Jesus didn't mean what He said when he asked us to be.

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  2. Yes, it is possible, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit that makes us not want to sin.

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  3. We receive imputed righteousness, like an invisibility cloak over the sins that will always remain.

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  1. Gideons300

    Gideons300 Our awakening is beginning. Prepare to be amazed.

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    Thank you for your input brother.

    Here is a question that needs to be asked? Why would any child of God, if he or she is aware that they have sinned and the Holy Spirit has tried to correct them, not want to repent and turn from it?

    The danger is great. Why? Because continuing in sin hardens the heart and our faith is weakened. If our faith is weakened and Christ dwells in our hearts by faith, it makes abiding in Him impossible.

    God is gracious and full of mercy, longsuffering towards us. But if we refuse the correction and discipline of the Spirit, we put our souls in great danger.

    That is why we are exhorted to give all diligence to make our calling and election sure. The OSAS doctrine has led much of the church into a false assurance that since all their sins, past present and future are forgiven, we can do what we want and still find our mansion move-in ready when we get to the Pearly Gates of Heaven.

    Who do we think those people were that were religious but had no desire for righteousness to actually be seen in their behavior? It is always someone else, not us. But on that final judgment, we will see emblazoned on the gates into eternity:

    “Let all who name the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

    And if that is not our heart cry, it is time to hit our knees and beg Him to do whatever it takes to awaken us from our death sleep.

    God gives grace, but will not be used as we continue to please ourselves. Until we truly HATE our sin and long to be freed from the old carnal us that loves sin, we are walking a tightrope over hell.

    Blessings,

    Gideon
     
  2. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    Are you suggesting that if we do not reach sinless perfection in this life then we cannot be saved?
     
  3. ralliann

    ralliann christian

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    Noah was a perfect man. Was he sinless in your eyes?
    Ge 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God. {perfect: or, upright }
    De 18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
     
  4. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    This is what many especially of political mindedness use as a perceived loophole to avoid living in the ways of the Kingdom. They pick out what is sin to use against others and ignore those sins that if no longer practised themselves would defeat their worldly purposes.
     
  5. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Would that not first depend on whether the world hated us for not playing their game (even if we occasionally stumbled)?
     
  6. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    Why indeed? If a person is genuinely born-again, and enjoys daily, joyful, loving fellowship with God, it is very unlikely that they will indulge in anything that would adversely affect that fellowship. But the majority of people today claiming to be saved never have any such fellowship - most often, I think, because they aren't truly saved.

    Well, I don't think a genuine child of God simply continues rebelliously in sin. No one in whom the Spirit truly dwells can just wander off into wicked living. The Spirit convicts them, agitates them, makes them uncomfortable with sin. And God promises to chastise His children when they go wrong (Hebrews 12:5-11), bringing them back into right relationship with Himself by doing so. It isn't, then, that the Christian can just take up sin as they like. There are immediate spiritual, psychological and even physical consequences that God mounds up on the believer if they persist in their sin. Of course, that means that if someone claims to be saved but is never checked by God through divine discipline, their claim is, in my view, in very serious doubt.

    The faith to believe the Gospel and trust in Christ as my Saviour originates with God. He gives me, by His Spirit, the capacity to believe (John 6:44; Romans 12:3; Philippians 1:29; 2 Timothy 1:13). And so, my faith is not me-dependent but God-dependent. Whatever sin may crowd my life, it cannot utterly snuff out the faith that comes from Him. It was that same faith that enabled me, when I was "dead in trespasses and sins" and "alienated from God and His enemy by my wicked works" to trust in Christ. If the faith given me by God was able to persist under such conditions in order to bring me to salvation, it will not dry up in the face of my sin after my salvation. And this has been exactly my experience.

    I'm afraid I can't agree with you here. If my salvation in any measure depends upon me, upon my success in living as God calls me to, then I am subscribing to works-salvation which the Bible flatly rejects (Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5). Rather than putting my relationship to God in jeopardy, my sin cuts me off from fellowship with God, as the profligate living of the Prodigal Son did with his fellowship with his father. My soul is eternally secure in Christ, who has purchased it with his own blood at Calvary and made me forever a joint-heir with him.

    I have held to OSAS for all of my adult life and have never been moved to this sort of thinking and living. The same is true for all of the other believers I know personally who hold to this soteriological view. I have, though, been in many churches teaching a saved-and-lost doctrine that were filled with fearful, legalistic, and hypocritical believers.

    One of the terrible things about the SAL (saved-and-lost) perspective is that it motivates a believer's obedience to God by way of fear rather than the love God commands (Matthew 22:36-38; 1 Corinthians 13:1-3; 1 John 4:16-19). This fear, though, is ultimately self-serving; it arises from a desire for self-preservation, not love for God. Fear, then, puts Self where God ought to be in motivating right living and is why God rejects it as a motive for walking with Him. The only obedience He accepts from us is that obedience that begins with, and arises from, the First and Great Commandment.

    Many expecting acceptance by Christ will be rejected by him at the Final Judgment because, while they might have cast out demons and done many miracles in his name, they never actually obeyed the one command that comes before all others: Love God with all of your being. And so it is that Paul the apostle wrote:

    1 Corinthians 13:3
    3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.


    The Bible calls them "tares," false converts, who never really loved God with all of their heart, mind, soul and strength.

    I appreciate the grand drama in this declaration, but I don't recall reading anything in the Bible about what is written on the "gates into eternity"...

    Brother, if this isn't a person's heart's cry, falling on their knees in supplication to God is not going to happen until God does what only He can do to make such a thing possible. It is the man whom God has already awakened from his "death sleep" who begs God to make him holy.

    Philippians 2:13
    13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.


    We ought absolutely to hate our sin, but it is only God who can make us do so properly and fully. And while God works to make us despise Self and the sin Self produces, He also works to form in us a greater and greater LOVE for Him. And it is this love, not merely our hatred of sin, that takes us into the heights of joyful, rich, obedient fellowship with our Heavenly Father.

    No where in the New Testament do I read of a tightrope along which a wayward Christian walks above the yawning mouth of hell. But I do read of God's hand holding me secure, out of which I cannot be drawn by any man (which includes me). (John 10:27-29)

    Blessings to you, too, Gideon.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  7. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Don't ask me, work out your own salvation.
     
  8. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    Don't ask you to clarify your position?
     
  9. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    This post is to make YOU think.
     
  10. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    Ah. Well I think it's heretical to say that unless you reach sinless perfection that you cannot be saved. Anyone who teaches this is a false teacher.
     
  11. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    That is your choice to believe what you want.
     
  12. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    Thanks!
     
  13. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    So much for God's concept of perfection. Loving neighbour as self just went out the window. :)
     
  14. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    I'm not God, so no need to thank me. I can't help you. I see you are reformed, so I see why you would call my beliefs heretical.
     
  15. Gideons300

    Gideons300 Our awakening is beginning. Prepare to be amazed.

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    Thank you for your time and effort in your reply. i rthink part of the issue is that we need to clear up our whole concept of being saved. When one says "once saved, always saved", whether there is error or not depends largely upon
    Oh no, has it come to that? :)
     
  16. Gideons300

    Gideons300 Our awakening is beginning. Prepare to be amazed.

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    Next thing you are going to tell me is our only hope is prayer! LOL
     
  17. Gideons300

    Gideons300 Our awakening is beginning. Prepare to be amazed.

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    sorry for the messed up responses. I promise to do better!
     
  18. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    Yup!
     
  19. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Because sin is no longer and cannot be charged against them anymore, if they truly believe and are born again, it is charged to Jesus account... They are no longer responsible for it but Christ is, because He does that for them, ect...

    Now, if they are truly walking in the Faith and pursuing Love, sin will be taken care of along the way or in the walk as they or you go, and it will be because of God, (or Christ) not them...

    In that way they are not really sinning anymore even along the way... Even the mistakes, God will show out not to be mistakes, ect, for the born again believer, who submits his or her will to God's will, ect... Because He is at the helm of their life after that, ect... Working all of it/that out (for the good) even the mistakes, especially the mistakes, that will not turn out to be mistakes, but will be for and to and toward His glory, ect... Working out all of it to and for that end, ect... Using you and some of us to do or for that now, ect...

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  20. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    If you are talking about mistakes we make while walking in the Spirit then I agree. 1 John 1:7 But if you are talking about willful sins of lawlessness 1 John 3:4, someone walking in the Spirit won't have any desire to be committing them at all. 1 John 3:9; Hebrews 10:26-31; Romans 6:2, 7; Romans 8:9
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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