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Featured Christian Perfectionism - Jesus said "Be perfect like My Father" - Can we be?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by 1stcenturylady, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. No, only Jesus was perfect. Jesus didn't mean what He said when he asked us to be.

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  2. Yes, it is possible, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit that makes us not want to sin.

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  3. We receive imputed righteousness, like an invisibility cloak over the sins that will always remain.

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  1. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

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    1 John 1:10 clearly contrasts 1:9, that is what 1 John is a book of contrasts, he is saying that they should ask for forgivness instead of saying they have no sin in them.
     
  2. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

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    Yes I have and it says that Jesus died once for all and that we are forgiven (past tense) not progressively as we ask. If we are forgiven progressively, what happens when you forget one? The bible says that God doesnt wink at sin. What about the ones you dont remember?
     
  3. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

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    I meant as a "dirty worm" theology. It doesnt work and is not what the bible says.
     
  4. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

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    So how can it be the finished work of Christ? Doesnt sound very finished to me.
     
  5. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

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    By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
    Hebrews 10:10 NASB
    but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God ,
    Hebrews 10:12 NASB
    For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
    Romans 6:10 NASB
    When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
    Colossians 2:13 NASB
     
  6. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    1 John 3:9
     
  7. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

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    But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
    Galatians 5:18 NASB
    Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
    Colossians 3:1 NASB
     
  8. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    For me it means consistently walking in the Spirit and never grieving Him.
     
  9. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Yes, they are contrasts of light and darkness. Verse 10 is not a Christian, nor is 6 and 8. 9 is how to BECOME a Christian, and 7 IS a Christian.
     
  10. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    God made Lucifer to be perfect. But He also gave all the angels free will. Remember 2/3 of the angels didn't fall, even though they also had free will. They overcame that temptation, and never fell.

    God made Adam and Eve to be perfect, but gave them free will. They fell, and we have inherited that fallen nature from them. There is a key to who will end up in heaven forever like 2/3 of the angels. He who OVERCOMES.

    Look at the letters to the seven churches and what they all have in common:

    Revelation 2:7 "To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”

    Revelation 2:14 "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”

    Revelation 2:17 "To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.

    Revelation 2:26 "And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—"

    Revelation 3:5 "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."

    Revelation 3:12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name."

    Revelation 3:21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."

    Now at the end of the world here is what is left:

    Revelation 22:11 "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

    After separating the wheat from the chaff, only the overcomers will remain for all eternity in heaven. And for all eternity the fallen will be in hell. Which side will you chose with your free will to be on?
     
  11. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

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    I am sorry if you feel that I am saying we are without sin, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that God calls us saints that sometimes sin. That we are as righteous, completely righteous. It is not positional. There is no scripture verse that says my salvation or your salvation is positional. Jesus' death, burial and resurrection was not positional. It was fact, it happened 2000 years ago and He lives today, not positionally but actually.
     
  12. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

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    Thats correct, Jesus overcame the world (He told us so) and because He overcame the world, through Him I have eternal life.
     
  13. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

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    So are you saying my salvation comes through my work? Last I checked it was only by faith we are saved.
     
  14. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

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    Anyways, good night y'all! It was a slice. Thanks for the great conversation! :wave:
     
  15. SoldierOfTheKing

    SoldierOfTheKing Christian Spenglerian

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    Unlike the Latin perfectus, this does not mean something that can't be improved upon; it means complete, as in a finished work. In Matt 5:48 it means to be completed in grace, with responses to that grace manifest.
     
  16. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    You know that faith without works is dead. But is it our works or the work of the Spirit through us. It is all Spirit. I can do nothing good by myself.
     
  17. UnprofitableServant

    UnprofitableServant ThyWillBeDone

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    If you want to obey Jesus and be perfect, then the first thing you need to do is start obeying Jesus!

    Don't over complicate things. Pick up your Bible and read what Jesus says, and if you see a command, then obey that command. It's as simple as that.

    The question as to whether or not you will be perfect, can only be answered after you try to do it perfectly.

    Be open to hearing more from God as you do this. He is faithful and true and will lead you if you become misguided along the way.

    In peace
     
  18. Oldmantook

    Oldmantook Well-Known Member

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    It appears you rely on just one English version of the Bible which can easily lead to misinterpretation.
    You cited 1 John 3:9 to support your belief however this verse does not mean what you think it means. The Greek verb tenses in this verse are in the present tense which indicate ongoing action or "sinning." In other words no one born of God goes on sinning/practices sin. The verse does not state that no one born of God does not sin at all. All Christians sin but not all Christians are in the habit of sinning.
    ESV - No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
     
  19. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    Some take "without holiness no man shall see God" as a pointer to purgatory with all that is unholy about a man or woman is purged away. But if you are expecting perfection while still on Earth let us know how you do with that. It hard to think of anyone who is perfect that I know including myself.
     
  20. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    Why would they?

    I'm aware of what John wrote.

    You wrote:

    "Please note and quote what 1 John 1:10 says when quoting 1:9. He is talking about sin deniers, not about getting your sins forgiven."

    Whatever verse 10 says, in verse 9, John is most definitely talking about "getting your sins forgiven."

    1 John 1:9
    9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


    Have I said that a Christian doesn't possess forgiveness? No. I've said exactly the reverse. But, like a box of band-aids one has bought from the drug store, if one doesn't apply the bandages in the box to one's wounds, the bandages won't protect the wounds. So, too, forgiveness. We are forgiven in Christ and clothed in his righteousness and thereby are accepted by God, but when we sin, as the apostle John wrote, we must confess that sin to God in order to obtain cleansing and restoration of our fellowship (not relationship, though) with God.

    What happens when you "forget one"? Your unconfessed sin bars you from properly enjoying God. It doesn't mean your relationship to Him is lost, however. If you think you have sin standing between you and God, but can't remember what it is, follow the example of the Psalmist who wrote:

    Psalms 19:12
    12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.


    Psalms 139:23-24
    23 Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me, and know my anxieties;
    24 And see if there is any wicked way in me, And lead me in the way everlasting.


    If you want to know if there is sin hindering your fellowship with God and what it is, simply pray and ask God to show it to you. He's always more than willing to bring to light your sin and cleanse you of it.

    The work of Christ at Calvary is finished but his work in you is not.

    We have a lovely new shower in our home. It works great! The installer did a fine job of putting in the shower. His work is finished and finished very well. But, you know, the shower only benefits us when we get into it, and turn on the water, and stand in its soothing, cleansing spray. Has the installer of the shower not finished his work because we have to take steps to benefit from his work? I don't see how this is a reasonable conclusion. The same goes for the forgiveness we have in Christ.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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