• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Christian Perfectionism - Jesus said "Be perfect like My Father" - Can we be?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by 1stcenturylady, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. No, only Jesus was perfect. Jesus didn't mean what He said when he asked us to be.

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  2. Yes, it is possible, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit that makes us not want to sin.

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  3. We receive imputed righteousness, like an invisibility cloak over the sins that will always remain.

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  1. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +1,175
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Again.. the perfection He 'demanded' was to be like the Father who loved all as self. It is His commandment. Reject the division of man and serve all. Love neighbour as self. Perfection.
     
  2. HatGuy

    HatGuy Some guy in a hat

    545
    +410
    South Africa
    Christian
    Married
    My first advice to those who want to be perfect perfect is come to an understanding of what the scriptures mean by perfection, rather than make assumptions on what it means - otherwise you'll live in despair.

    Second advice is pursue love and you'll hit it

    Third advice is trust God and His promises

    Fourth advice is realise holiness is for others - it's to make a difference in this world, change societies, disciple nations. It's not about just "you and the Lord" and having experiences with God and living an upstanding moral life judging others for their weakness and propping yourself up as a figure of righteousness. That's not holiness, that's self righteousness
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • List
  3. HatGuy

    HatGuy Some guy in a hat

    545
    +410
    South Africa
    Christian
    Married
    O never voted because all three choices are essentially right and wrong at the same time. There are too many nuances to vote.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  4. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

    281
    +162
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Widowed
    Jesus never commanded perfection, this is all out of context. He was showing the Jews of things to come and they needed Him not the law. "You have heard it said, but I say", it was never something to strive for or to be attained. It was Moses on steroids, it was to show they needed Him. It was to prepare them as He was about to fulfill the law completely and the new covenant was coming. Jesus also said my yoke is easy, my burden is light. How light and easy is perfection? To answer, it is not.
     
  5. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +1,175
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Again in context what He called perfect was doing as His commandment commanded, love neighbour as self.

    Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
     
  6. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,142
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    It's not easy with a fallen nature, but does Jesus forgive us, and then leave us to fall again? Or does He give us His Holy Spirit and a new nature to make us dead to sin in order to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law?

    Romans 8:1-9; 1 John 3:9
     
  7. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

    281
    +162
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Widowed
    We often describe "fallen" like we fell by accident. This was a choice, we made it. The same way made a choice to turn from sin and accept Jesus' sacrifice for those sins, past present and future. We are dead to it, we cannot fulfill the righteous requirements of law, there was only one who did it, Jesus. Keep in mind 1 John is a book of contrasts, it is comparing one to another Read the verse after the one you quoted. Are you waking up each morning thinking about how you are going to out-do the sin from the day before? Are you practice sinning? I would say not.

    We are dead to sin, we no longer need to try to keep the law but to walk by the spirit.
     
  8. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,142
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    You are responsible for how you interpret the Word of God and living to your level of knowledge which I find poor, and I am responsible for working out my own salvation. This post is for all of us to take action and not apathetically think we're good enough and become lukewarm.
     
  9. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +3,383
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    We Should die daily... Or very regularly...

    And the way to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law is not by works of the law, or the flesh, but is of and by the heart, and is of the Spirit... The prior was it's trick, and/or deception and/or curse, don't you see...?

    And you've been shown that true perfection is rooted and grounded in, and is associated with "Love" always, so do with that what you will, I guess...

    God Bless!

    Oh, and, he never leaves or forsakes us, definitely not in our sins, but, if you make your bed in hell...? Anyway,

    God Bless!
     
  10. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

    +1,078
    Catholic
    Married
    "Apart from Me you can do nothing" John 15:5
    "With God all things are possible" Matt 19:26

    This is the basis of the New Covenant. Man was made for communion with God and without it he's lost, dead, unable to maintain his righteousness or holiness, the "righteousness of God" that he was made for. God didn't create us to be sinners after all and He loves and wants more for us than we can begin to imagine. He doesn't ignore justice but rather intends to restore it to His wayward creation.

    And it's a cooperative effort. We must want it, to hunger and thirst for righteousness as we work out our salvation with He who works in us. It's taught that God made His universe in a "state of journeying to perfection". That's a good trip even as it involves struggle and growth, with the help of grace
     
  11. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +1,175
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Which leads you to loving neighbour as self rather than seeking gain at others expense.
     
  12. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

    281
    +162
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Widowed
     
  13. JAYPT

    JAYPT Active Member

    281
    +162
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Widowed
    You already died, with Christ on the cross. It worked the first time, there is no dying daily. Although it sounds very spiritual its not real.
     
  14. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +1,175
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Jesus died and did His part in bringing about the Kingdom. We need to do our parts to be worthy of entrance and that is to no longer be of the world of man in spirit or deed..

    It's always been about the choice, God's will or man's will. The world has been a rebellious teenager that never grew up since the Garden.
     
  15. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

    +1,351
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    My advice is that you should find ways to fill yourself with the Holy Spirit.
     
  16. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +1,175
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Fill Yourself 101: Love all neighbours as self and see what happens.
     
  17. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member

    +479
    Uruguay
    Christian
    Single
    Maybe perfect means good enough to be called that, and not actual literal perfection of character/100% clean. Because i think there will always be something that doesn't let us be literally perfectly clean/perfect character.

    I think this chase and wish of some people to be perfect is totally unnecesary, just try to be what God called you to do, and live as best as you can, with Jesus help we can achieve it i think.

    Also, please don't think for a moment one day on this earth you will reach a point where you will sin no more ever, because christian life is a constant fight, 'a race' and having errors is human and i think unavoidable, if you think you reached a point where you not sin in any way no more you are wrong, you have something there to fix/achieve yet.
    Just my opinion.
     
  18. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +1,175
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    One would think in doing the only two things God asks of us, to put His will before our own, thus loving all neighbours as self, would make us as perfect as man could get in His eyes.
     
  19. NBB

    NBB Well-Known Member

    +479
    Uruguay
    Christian
    Single
    Yes, this 'perfection' thing smells like vanity really. I think God did not meant to say we can achieve 100% perfection one day and stay like that until we die. We would have to leave earth, because even Moses made mistakes that did not please God, and Paul said he did not achieve perfection.
     
  20. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

    +1,175
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Two ways of using everything, one for man's ways, one for God's. Some can set themselves on a pedestal thus pursuing the original sin of serving self OR simply go about their business helping the oppressed.
     
Loading...