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Featured Christian Perfectionism - Jesus said "Be perfect like My Father" - Can we be?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by 1stcenturylady, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. No, only Jesus was perfect. Jesus didn't mean what He said when he asked us to be.

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  2. Yes, it is possible, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit that makes us not want to sin.

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  3. We receive imputed righteousness, like an invisibility cloak over the sins that will always remain.

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  1. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    When false teachers don't take statements out of context, we see that all the apostles and Jesus Himself taught perfectionism. Even the unknown writer of Hebrews said "without holiness no man shall see God.

    What advice can you give those who want to obey Jesus and be perfect, as their Father God is perfect?

    No faithless nay sayers of "that's impossible" please. Only positive exhortation.
     
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  2. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    If we were capable of putting the will of man before the will of God, are we not capable of going against the human grain and the world man has built upon that principle and reverse that (as individuals)? Can we not become haters of man as the earliest Christians were known?
     
  3. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    I asked for no nay sayers, and frankly, I don't know whether you are of the other side or the side of faith. Can you explain what you mean, and if you have scripture? Sorry, I'm confused.
     
  4. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Well-Known Member

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    I just pray: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me the sinner".
     
  5. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    The sins began in the Garden when we put our will before the will of God. Eve opened the door to self serving ways, gain at the expense of others, self justification of such including by redefining good and evil at will to do so. The Bible from cover to cover shows man's continually adversarial ways to the will of God and God's teachings to get man to wise up and understand how our ways only lead to self destruction in all ways. Can we be perfect? No not in a body that shares spirit with animal instinct. But we can understand which system is better and strive to live that way in opposition to default mankind especially with God's help once we turn our allegiance to him rather than mankind.

    Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

    James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

    Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
     
  6. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    So what is your advice to be perfect in this lifetime?
     
  7. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Describe or define "perfect" then let's determine exactly who, or if you are right or not first, K...?

    Jesus said they were already clean, if they believed in Him or on His Word or words, or because of Jesus choosing them, ect... (John 15:3)

    God Bless!
     
  8. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    2 Corinthians 13:9-11

    9 For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.

    10 Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.

    11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
     
  9. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We are to strive for it. Paul tells us to apply ourselves as if we are intent on winning a race to obtain an imperishable crown.
     
  10. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Sinlessness for one. John 8:34-36.

    I hope more want to go to heaven than these few who have answered.
     
  11. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    What do you do then? Keep sinning, or stop sinning?
     
  12. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    There is no perfection in this lifetime, especially with two natures duelling within. What there is is allegiance to one and not the other. When Jesus said in context to be perfect He meant loving ALL as self as God loves us, not just those who served your purpose.. He didn't say rebel against the oppressors but to simply focus on the oppressed of all kinds and help them in their oppression. Put God's will first and love all neighbours as self.
     
  13. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    2 Corinthians 7:
    1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    Ephesians 4:11-16
    And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

    Philippians 3:12
    Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.

    But later at the end of his ministry through suffering he obtained perfection, Paul says:

    2 Timothy 4:6-8
    6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

    Colossians 1:28
    Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.

    Colossians 1:28
    Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.

    Colossians 3:14
    But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection.

    Colossians 4:12
    Epaphras, who is one of you, a bondservant of Christ, greets you, always laboring fervently for you in prayers, that you may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

    Colossians 4:12
    Epaphras, who is one of you, a bondservant of Christ, greets you, always laboring fervently for you in prayers, that you may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

    1 Thessalonians 3:10
    night and day praying exceedingly that we may see your face and perfect what is lacking in your faith?

    Hebrews 2:10
    For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

    Hebrews 6:1 [ The Peril of Not Progressing ] Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

    Hebrews 10:14
    For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

    Hebrews 11:40
    God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

    Hebrews 12:23
    to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,

    James 1:4
    But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

    James 2:22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?

    James 3:2
    For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.

    1 Peter 5:10
    But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.

    1 John 2:5
    But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

    1 John 4:12
    No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.

    1 John 4:17

    Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world.


    1 John 4:18
    There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.


     
  14. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    And what does perfect mean in all of these contexts, how do you define it, and how would you illustrate it, or how would it be illustrated in a person, and then, can you or me or we become that person, if that is what we are supposed to do...?

    And/or/also, is it the same across the board for everyone, or is everyone to be the same, or what...?

    God Bless!
     
  15. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    You condemn yourself... (Romans 2:1)... Paul say not if, not when, or when you do, but that you who are judging actually do do or practice the same things, maybe in that very moment, IDK?, anyway...

    Anyway, you condemn yourself...

    God Bless!
     
  16. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    That means striving to be perfect

    was talking about Jesus a perfect man

    Not that he is but again striving

    etc etc
     
  17. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    I must look at these scriptures for myself, as well as you looking at them for yourself.
     
  18. StrivingFollower

    StrivingFollower Member

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    If Paul couldn't achieve perfection, I'm gonna wait til I'm on his level to even consider the possibility. So many great heroes in the Bible and not one of them looked perfect. Nice guys, but Jesus was way above their level.
     
  19. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Don't look for loopholes, but do as Jesus commands, and He commanded perfection.
     
  20. StrivingFollower

    StrivingFollower Member

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    Shouldn't God have told us about one or two people that achieved perfection? So we can know what the transformation looks like? I strive to be perfect, but I'm aware of my limitations. It's easy to rush yourself by skipping the second greatest commandment of loving others. And once you get to a certain level of exhaustion, you can only fall apart. All good things come to an end.

    That commandment implies you love yourself. If you abuse yourself, are you loving yourself? Jesus had a level of toughness he could use to pull himself away from self-hatred. Unless we develop the same toughness, we're doomed to fail.
     
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