Christian Nudists

[Archivist]

Well you should. That's the point.

Why should I feel shame for something that isn't shameful?

 

[MyChainsAreGone]

God asked who told them. The answer is no one did.

So God asked a foolish question that had no answer?

I don't think so.

RJ, you don't realize it, but you are deeply deceived by the same serpent that "told" Adam and Eve that they were naked.

By promoting your antagonism towards the natural human body, you are literally promoting Satan's "theology" of the body.

Our bodies bear God's Image. Satan hated it. He still does.

 

[MyChainsAreGone]

In proper exigesis of scripture you take waht it says as literal meaning of the word first. Then you look at context for further clarification.

Yes... this is true.

But what is the "literal meaning" of a word?

One thing we cannot assume is that it means the exact same thing as our closest English equivalent.

That's why we do original language word studies. We study how it was used in the original language... in order to discern the true meaning of the word... as used by the author and the people to whom the Scriptures were written.

That's why I did my word study.

And if you read it, you'll see that I DID start with the presumption of the natural meaning of the word (ervah = "nakedness"). Then I examined the scriptures to see if that meaning fit the usage of the word in the biblical text.

Sometimes it did. More often than not, however, that natural definition did not fit the biblical usage. You've admitted as much yourself. So, I sought a single definition of the word that would work in all contexts.

Again, if you read my study, you'll see that I tried the "sinful/shameful" definition, too... but it too failed to work in all contexts, because there were definitely passages where ervah was not shameful or sinful.

So... I finally settled on the definition I gave in my study. This then became the "literal meaning" that I can use in my exegesis.

Now... back to your statement above... you're right...

"In proper exegesis of scripture you take what it says as literal meaning of the word first." In this case, the "literal meaning" of ervah includes some sort of active sexual expression." That's how the word is consistently used throughout the OT. That's what my word study revealed. That is the meaning of ervah.

But what you seem to mean by what you said was this:

In proper exegesis of scripture you take what it says as literal ENGLISH meaning of the word first.

But that is not "proper exegesis."

 

[MyChainsAreGone]

@rjs330,

I have a simple challenge for you.

In a previous response to you, I made two assertions. I would like for you to address them and refute them if you can.

• Of all the words that speak of nakedness in the OT (and there are several) the ONLY one EVER associated with sin or shame is ervah.
• Whenever shame or sin is associated with ervah/nakedness, there is always a description of some other shameful attitude or behavior in the immediate context. Always.

Can you refute either of these assertions? Can you...

• Show me a passage where there is shame associated with nudity where ervah is not used in the passage.
• Show me a passage where ervah and sin/shame are in the passage, but no other description of a sinful attitude or behavior is found in the context (meaning the source for the shame must be the public nudity).

Why these questions?

• If all public nudity is shameful, then we should find shame associated with other terms for nudity besides ervah. The bible certainly uses more than the one term to describe the unclothed state.
• If public nudity in and of itself is shameful, then we should find some shameful expression of nudity where the only shameful thing is their nudity in public.

If your position is biblically sound, then you should be able to meet this challenge. But if you cannot meet this challenge, then it may mean...

• NOT all public nudity is shameful.
• The shame of "public nudity" is not a matter of the nudity, but of something else.

 

[FredVB]

Well you should. That's the point.

That is being pretty judgmental of another, without real basis. This is what we should not show others. You do not have something from scripture to address this, just that if something is contrary to your conscience, you should not do that. That leaves many things others are doing that you are not in proper position to try to shame them for.

Why should I feel shame for something that isn't shameful?

Indeed there is not scripture showing there must be shame. Our unclothed selves are what God created, our own selves, clothes are cultural things made by people that we add to ourselves, maybe regarding the extra things as ourselves. But there should not be shame of what God made, including our natural selves. Certainly we were to be redeemed, and grow to living obediently, but having shame of our natural selves as God created us to be is not right.

Yes... this is true.

But what is the "literal meaning" of a word?

One thing we cannot assume is that it means the exact same thing as our closest English equivalent.

That's why we do original language word studies. We study how it was used in the original language... in order to discern the true meaning of the word... as used by the author and the people to whom the Scriptures were written.

That's why I did my word study.

And if you read it, you'll see that I DID start with the presumption of the natural meaning of the word (ervah = "nakedness"). Then I examined the scriptures to see if that meaning fit the usage of the word in the biblical text.

Sometimes it did. More often than not, however, that natural definition did not fit the biblical usage. You've admitted as much yourself. So, I sought a single definition of the word that would work in all contexts.

Again, if you read my study, you'll see that I tried the "sinful/shameful" definition, too... but it too failed to work in all contexts, because there were definitely passages where ervah was not shameful or sinful.

So... I finally settled on the definition I gave in my study. This then became the "literal meaning" that I can use in my exegesis.

Now... back to your statement above... you're right...

"In proper exegesis of scripture you take what it says as literal meaning of the word first." In this case, the "literal meaning" of ervah includes some sort of active sexual expression." That's how the word is consistently used throughout the OT. That's what my word study revealed. That is the meaning of ervah.

But what you seem to mean by what you said was this:

In proper exegesis of scripture you take what it says as literal ENGLISH meaning of the word first.

But that is not "proper exegesis."

@rjs330,

I have a simple challenge for you.

In a previous response to you, I made two assertions. I would like for you to address them and refute them if you can.

• Of all the words that speak of nakedness in the OT (and there are several) the ONLY one EVER associated with sin or shame is ervah.
• Whenever shame or sin is associated with ervah/nakedness, there is always a description of some other shameful attitude or behavior in the immediate context. Always.

Can you refute either of these assertions? Can you...

• Show me a passage where there is shame associated with nudity where ervah is not used in the passage.
• Show me a passage where ervah and sin/shame are in the passage, but no other description of a sinful attitude or behavior is found in the context (meaning the source for the shame must be the public nudity).

Why these questions?

• If all public nudity is shameful, then we should find shame associated with other terms for nudity besides ervah. The bible certainly uses more than the one term to describe the unclothed state.
• If public nudity in and of itself is shameful, then we should find some shameful expression of nudity where the only shameful thing is their nudity in public.

If your position is biblically sound, then you should be able to meet this challenge. But if you cannot meet this challenge, then it may mean...

• NOT all public nudity is shameful.
• The shame of "public nudity" is not a matter of the nudity, but of something else.

Thanks for sharing this from your study, it is really helpful.

 

[Justin3.14]

41 year old Christian, been a nudist for 3 years now. have met several others online and a few in person. You (or anyone) may message me if you are interested in an online group for Naked Christian Men. (strictly non-sexual)

 

[Darkhorse]

Welcome to CF, Justin!

There are several other Christian nudists here (including me), and many of them have posted in this thread. I look forward to hearing more from you.

 

[Justin3.14]

Welcome to CF, Justin!

There are several other Christian nudists here (including me), and many of them have posted in this thread. I look forward to hearing more from you.

Thanks! Also, thanks for being patient with me as I figure out this website!

 

[FreeInChrist88]

Also welcome Justin. Glad you weighed in on this thread. It's amazing that this thread has been out there for 6 years and after 1,128 posts is still active!

 

[bèlla]

What percentage of Christian nudists are women? Is it evenly split? Are Christian nudists typically married, single, or a combination of the two?

~bella

 

[Darkhorse]

What percentage of Christian nudists are women? Is it evenly split? Are Christian nudists typically married, single, or a combination of the two?

~bella

I have two main sources for my reply:

(1) personal contact with Christian nudists (about 200 or so);

(2) internet contact with Christian nudists on the forum naturist-christians(dot)org.

About half of all Christian nudists I know personally are female. The above forum has a few female contributors and couples, but most people there are male, and their wives (if married) will not participate in nudism.

The overwhelming majority of Christian nudists I personally know are married (hence the 50-50 ratio), but I also know a few single ones. The singles are usually male, but not all.

Most of the nudists I know personally I have met at nude beaches and nudist resorts. Our current favorite resort typically has 200 - 250 people on a 3-day summer weekend (pre-COVID), most of them married couples. My wife, kids, and I always go to the resort together.

 

[dayhiker]

I'm a single guy and about half the ladies I've taken to a nudist resort were single.
I get the feeling that men take the initiative to get to some place where they can be naked more than ladies do by themselves. But if a woman is asked to go a lot of them will give it a try. Right now 3 of 5 ladies I spend with a bit of time with love going to places where they can be naked. 4 of those ladies would identify themselves as Christians

 

[Eddy Smythe]

There is a freedom that comes from being nude. Swimming is particularly more pleasurable when nude, and while one has to be cautious about over-exposure (sunburn) and there is a natural limitation in the north (cold temperatures) I can say that once you remove your clothes, you are suddenly more vulnerable and honest with whomever you share space with.

 

[bèlla]

The above forum has a few female contributors and couples, but most people there are male, and their wives (if married) will not participate in nudism.

Thank you for your insight. I hoped you’d chime in.

Why don’t they participate? Are most men nudists prior to marriage or afterwards?

The overwhelming majority of Christian nudists I personally know are married (hence the 50-50 ratio), but I also know a few single ones. The singles are usually male, but not all.

I think secular numbers are similar.

Most of the nudists I know personally I have met at nude beaches and nudist resorts. Our current favorite resort typically has 200 - 250 people on a 3-day summer weekend (pre-COVID), most of them married couples. My wife, kids, and I always go to the resort together.

Do you encounter stigmas regarding nudism? How do you combat them?

 

[Darkhorse]

Thank you for your insight. I hoped you’d chime in.

Why don’t they participate? Are most men nudists prior to marriage or afterwards?

From what I've seen, most nudists get into nudism in their later years, like 50 and older, so most are married before they become nudists. Unfortunately, many wives refuse to participate in nudism with their husbands, even if they have no problem with their husbands being nudists. One reason is the so-called "modesty culture" in the USA. In addition, many of the wives feel they don't look "good enough" to go nude, which is ironic, because nudists are very accepting of different shapes, sizes, and colors of other nudists, as well as the scars people accumulate during their lifetimes.

I introduced my wife to nudism before we were married. She has always had body-image issues and has struggled with her weight all her life. She was adventurous enough to visit a nude beach with me, and her worries vanished quickly. Guys who wouldn't give her a second glance with her clothes on found her quite attractive with them off. She enjoys the freedom and naturalness that comes from wearing God's designer outfit.

Do you encounter stigmas regarding nudism? How do you combat them?

We haven't encountered many, because most of our acquaintances don't know about our nudism. A few extended family members know, and some have no problems with it. Others think it's sexually motivated, and think we're weird. No big deal, really.

 

[bèlla]

From what I've seen, most nudists get into nudism in their later years, like 50 and older, so most are married before they become nudists.

That’s interesting. You’d expect them to try it when they’re younger. Maybe that’s the impact of culture. It’s more commonplace in Europe.

Unfortunately, many wives refuse to participate in nudism with their husbands, even if they have no problem with their husbands being nudists. One reason is the so-called "modesty culture" in the USA.

I’m surprised they’re comfortable with their husband’s participating but the modesty culture is oppressive. We were expected to be ladies but I didn’t hear demeaning things about my body or gender. Or was made to feel attractiveness would lead someone astray. I think that’s very toxic.

Guys who wouldn't give her a second glance with her clothes on found her quite attractive with them off. She enjoys the freedom and naturalness that comes from wearing God's designer outfit.

Does it bother you when other men look at her? Is she okay when women do the same?

We haven't encountered many, because most of our acquaintances don't know about our nudism. A few extended family members know, and some have no problems with it. Others think it's sexually motivated, and think we're weird. No big deal, really.

Many associate it with hedonism and assume you're physically intimate. They can’t imagine nudity without engagement.

 

[Darkhorse]

That’s interesting. You’d expect them to try it when they’re younger. Maybe that’s the impact of culture. It’s more commonplace in Europe.

I'm sure it's due to cultural influences, especially within the last 40 years. Parents don't let their children run around nude at beaches and wading pools like they used to. Teenagers don't shower in schools anymore, and nude swimming in schools, camps, and Scouts died out 50 years ago.

Fortunately, I became a nudist at age 19 when I discovered the joys of nude swimming.

I’m surprised they’re comfortable with their husband’s participating...

I am too, but I think it's an attempt to accommodate their husband's desires, and they obviously trust them to behave themselves. However, not all wives accept their husband's interest, even in their own home.

Does it bother you when other men look at her? Is she okay when women do the same?

Doesn't bother me at all. I find her attractive, so I'm not surprised when other guys do too.
She feels the same way about me.
Of course, we totally trust each other, after knowing each other for 40 years and being married for 30 years.

The converse is also true. I enjoy the beauty of other women, and she checks out other guys, but we always remain faithful to each other and keep our passions between us.

Many associate it with hedonism and assume you're physically intimate. They can’t imagine nudity without engagement.

Yes, it's a common belief that nudist resorts are really swingers clubs. A few are, but they're easy to spot and avoid. We certainly would not have taken our kids to immoral places all their lives.

 

[Justin3.14]

Also welcome Justin. Glad you weighed in on this thread. It's amazing that this thread has been out there for 6 years and after 1,128 posts is still active!

Thank you! Glad I found this site

 

[Bradskii]

She enjoys the freedom and naturalness that comes from wearing God's designer outfit.

I've no idea why I checked out this thread. But that comment is solid gold.

I just wish that He'd made my outfit 'wrinkle free'.

 

[Darkhorse]

I've no idea why I checked out this thread. But that comment is solid gold.

I just wish that He'd made my outfit 'wrinkle free'.

Hey, it gives us older folks something to do: show each other a few new wrinkles!