Christian masculinity

[Cimorene]

I don't know, sometimes I see assertive people who act or speak prematurely, showing a lack wisdom because they missed certain important details, or failed to think something all the way through. I tend to be not overly talkative, usually because I'm more prudent in thought and in conversation, and I see myself as a masculine person.

Most traits can be positive or negative depending on how they're used. Like how you can be courageous & foolish simultaneously, or courageous & wise. You can be mature or immature with assertiveness too. Maybe ask Tallguy88 why he listed it as a trait for masculinity & what he means by it.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Being assertive is also adjusting your reality to the perception of others. There's nothing more frustrating than being told what you are and what you are not by anyone. Your reality is your reality. When it conflicts only with the church's definition of you and no where else then it's an assertive move to confront that with where you feel your being maliligned.

the Latin verb providēre, meaning "to see ahead, foresee, provide (for). "Providēre" combines pro-, meaning "before, and vidēre, meaning "to see, and it may look familiar to you; it is also the source of our "provide," "provident," "provision," and "improvise." "Vidēre" also has many English offspring, including "evident," "supervise," "video," and "vision."​

I think it's very hard to be prudent, except within oneself, without coming across as assertive. The difference is in what your being assertive about. If males can be assertive but females must be prudent then it's just more rules placed on something that doesn't need ruling except for both male and female.

 

[Cimorene]

Maybelline Just Hired A Guy To Be The Face Of Its New Mascara

Full of females telling guys should wear makeup and that masculinity is subjective.

I've been in that thread but I guess I missed the posts from females telling guys to wear makeup. It's not just females who've said that attitudes about masculinity are subjective. History & cultural differences around the world now show that it is.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Most traits can be positive or negative depending on how they're used. Like how you can be courageous & foolish simultaneously, or courageous & wise. You can be mature or immature with assertiveness too. Maybe ask Tallguy88 why he listed it as a trait for masculinity & what he means by it.

@Tallguy88....? With assertiveness, I'm assuming you were referring more to 'getting things done', and not so much in being assertive in conversation? Would that be correct?

 

[Monk Brendan]

Yeah I wouldn't say your husband is unmasculine cuz he likes to cook and prefers cats. The cats things, I think is irrelevant, and someone told me knowing how to cook actually makes you more of a man cuz it makes you more independent. I would say he was unmasculine if, for example, there was a situation where he needed to stand up for you and didn't do so out of cowardice.

I learned how to wash dishes at age 7. I was cooking simple things by age 8, and by age 14, I had mastered my mother's every dish save her fudge (which at 65 I still can't make right).

If anyone saw me, they would say, "there goes a manly man."

 

[Landon Caeli]

I've been in that thread but I guess I missed the posts from females telling guys to wear makeup. It's not just females who've said that attitudes about masculinity are subjective. History & cultural differences around the world now show that it is.

Hah... Did you see those renaissance people from the last page? They may very well have been wearing makeup... Kind of looked like it even...

...But I think Tallguy had a point about the "Christian" kind of masculinity -which is a kind that would reject such vanity.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I learned how to wash dishes at age 7. I was cooking simple things by age 8, and by age 14, I had mastered my mother's every dish save her fudge (which at 65 I still can't make right).

If anyone saw me, they would say, "there goes a manly man."

Happy 700th post.

 

[Cimorene]

@Tallguy88....? With assertiveness, I'm assuming you were referring more to 'getting things done', and not being assertive in conversation. Would that be correct?

Yes, he may have different reasons for listing it than what I'm thinking.

Sure, getting things done can be a part of assertiveness.
This is really what I mean by it:
Assertiveness

 

[SnowyMacie]

I've been in that thread but I guess I missed the posts from females telling guys to wear makeup. It's not just females who've said that attitudes about masculinity are subjective. History & cultural differences around the world now show that it is.

Well, to be fair, I mentioned how women have told me that they think men would look better with a little bit of makeup.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Yes, he may have different reasons for listing it than what I'm thinking.

Sure, getting things done can be a part of assertiveness.
This is really what I mean by it:
Assertiveness

Hmmm... I think you're right -for both men and women. To be assertive in deeds, and prudent in thought and speech is best for everyone equally.

 

[Cimorene]

Well, to be fair, I mentioned how women have told me that they think men would look better with a little bit of makeup.

I'm assuming since your name is TX Matt that you're a man. He said that thread was "Full of females telling guys should wear makeup", which isn't the same thing as women irl telling you they think men would look better with a little bit of makeup. Boys I know have said that they wish they could wear makeup bc they deal with the same stuff we do like dark circles under their eyes, being pale, spots & I do agree with them. It's still not the same as saying that women were telling men to wearing makeup.

 

[Tallguy88]

@Tallguy88....? With assertiveness, I'm assuming you were referring more to 'getting things done', and not so much in being assertive in conversation? Would that be correct?

Yes. Men are more concrete. More decisive. Less likely to get bogged down with emotion when it comes to making difficult decisions. Doesn't mean they are always right to do so, but the traits are masculine nonetheless.

 

[Tallguy88]

I learned how to wash dishes at age 7. I was cooking simple things by age 8, and by age 14, I had mastered my mother's every dish save her fudge (which at 65 I still can't make right).

If anyone saw me, they would say, "there goes a manly man."

Being a good cook is a manly skill. It gives a level of independence.

 

[Tallguy88]

Well, to be fair, I mentioned how women have told me that they think men would look better with a little bit of makeup.

Ima still have to disagree with that one. Fussing over your appearance, whether it's makeup hair, or clothes, is unmanly. A man should look presentable for whatever occasion and maintain acceptable levels of hygiene. But primping outside of special occasions is a trait not worth persuing.

 

[Paidiske]

Firstly, I'd want to object to some of the OP, which I consider comes very close to flaming women and feminists as groups (and certainly has some very negative things to say about those groups). Can we please discuss positive masculinity without taking pot shots at others?

Yes. Men are more concrete. More decisive. Less likely to get bogged down with emotion when it comes to making difficult decisions. Doesn't mean they are always right to do so, but the traits are masculine nonetheless.

I disagree. When you look at a trait like decisiveness, that lines up as part of the P-J dichotomy of a Myers-Briggs scale. We don't live in a world where women are mostly P and men are mostly J; the distribution isn't skewed by sex. It might be the way we often see stuff portrayed in pop culture (and I've even seen some stuff out there on the web making unsubstantiated claims in that direction), but statistics say it isn't true.

I think the article is right to uphold the pursuit of men being "authentically ourselves," but part of that has to be rejecting too narrow an idea of what our authentic self might be.

I also wonder about the way it presents men in terms of "action." I wonder whether it would be better to talk of masculinity in terms of commitment; whether that ends up being expressed in action or in words or in contemplation or whatever. After all, we would hardly call the desert contemplatives feminine, would we?

 

[Sammy-San]

Ima still have to disagree with that one. Fussing over your appearance, whether it's makeup hair, or clothes, is unmanly. A man should look presentable for whatever occasion and maintain acceptable levels of hygiene. But primping outside of special occasions is a trait not worth persuing.

Arent a lot of girls not obsessed with appearance?

 

[Tallguy88]

Firstly, I'd want to object to some of the OP, which I consider comes very close to flaming women and feminists as groups (and certainly has some very negative things to say about those groups). Can we please discuss positive masculinity without taking pot shots at others?



I disagree. When you look at a trait like decisiveness, that lines up as part of the P-J dichotomy of a Myers-Briggs scale. We don't live in a world where women are mostly P and men are mostly J; the distribution isn't skewed by sex. It might be the way we often see stuff portrayed in pop culture (and I've even seen some stuff out there on the web making unsubstantiated claims in that direction), but statistics say it isn't true.

I think the article is right to uphold the pursuit of men being "authentically ourselves," but part of that has to be rejecting too narrow an idea of what our authentic self might be.

I also wonder about the way it presents men in terms of "action." I wonder whether it would be better to talk of masculinity in terms of commitment; whether that ends up being expressed in action or in words or in contemplation or whatever. After all, we would hardly call the desert contemplatives feminine, would we?

I haven't taken pot shots at women or femininity. Femininity is good, just not in men.

 

[Tallguy88]

Arent a lot of girls not obsessed with appearance?

Sure. But I'm talking about men, not girls.

 

[Paidiske]

I'm speaking about this quote from the article:

"secular feminism is on a mission to erase masculinity from social consciousness, or at least to feminize men into utter impotence. I speak generally, but no less truly, when I maintain that women, in action contrary to their very nature, have turned on men to devour them in their shortcomings and faults rather than working to nurture the fulfillment of their potential."

I think that's a completely unfair misrepresentation both of feminism as a broad social movement and of women "generally."

 

[Tallguy88]

I'm speaking about this quote from the article:

"secular feminism is on a mission to erase masculinity from social consciousness, or at least to feminize men into utter impotence. I speak generally, but no less truly, when I maintain that women, in action contrary to their very nature, have turned on men to devour them in their shortcomings and faults rather than working to nurture the fulfillment of their potential."

I think that's a completely unfair misrepresentation both of feminism as a broad social movement and of women "generally."

I could point out that the article was written by a woman. She also admits it's a generality on the secular movement. Much of the feminist movement originally was a very faith based movement, St. Dorothy Day or Susan B. Anthony come to mind. But the secular elements can get a bit out there.