Christian living and paying taxes...help me out.

[SabbathBlessings]

Ok...but doesn't context matter? Let me give an example:
I had a stroke in 2009. The pain was so bad the installed an internal spinal pump that infuses medicine. They also give me opiates. Now...my Mother is a full blown addict. Horror stories for decades that everyone who deals with addictive family can relate too. I "lied" to her and told her I no longer have pills because she would do anything to get them when she lived in the apartment. This means breaking into my home, safe, etc.. Would this be "bearing false witness"? Was it a sin? Or was the motive pure and the "lie" actually helping my Mother?

I am a believer that God means what He says, I think its easy to try explain away any of God's commandments and I don't believe we should practice lying under any circumstances. I think you should have been honest with your mom and told her you're not giving her the pills. I think its an easy thing to do to find excuses why not to obey God, but if one wants to be a follower of Christ we should follow His example, who kept all of His Fathers commandments, John 15:10, 1 John 2:6 and His commandments are not meant to be grievous 1 John 5:3, there actually for our own good.

 

[Enilorac]

I "lied" to her and told her I no longer have pills because she would do anything to get them when she lived in the apartment. This means breaking into my home, safe, etc.. Would this be "bearing false witness"? Was it a sin? Or was the motive pure and the "lie" actually helping my Mother?

You were not lying when you said that because of the pomp.

I pay taxes and try to be honest as possible. But in some situations, is it Ok for me to make a personal decision to avoid certain taxes due to other circumstances? I'm not saying I won't pay the rental income but I'm trying to decide what God would say if I could ask Him directly in this situation. As someone said before...is this a Romans 14 issue?

What does Romans 14 have to do with directly breaking a variety of civil and criminal laws here? Taxes are due on rental income. Cash payments to evade the law are illegal. You are lying to the civil authorities and to God on this one. Don't try to justify it. People like you are the reason the gov't agencies are making it harder to be approved for benefits.

 

[Homeby5]

You were not lying when you said that because of the pomp.


What does Romans 14 have to do with directly breaking a variety of civil and criminal laws here? Taxes are due on rental income. Cash payments to evade the law are illegal. You are lying to the civil authorities and to God on this one. Don't try to justify it. People like you are the reason the gov't agencies are making it harder to be approved for benefits.

Ok...not arguing...but for the third time, and no one has responded yet, which laws are we allowed to break that is NOT sin? Do you repent of your sin every time you speed 1 MPH over? What about of you don't stop at a stop sign behind the line? How about Jaywalking? I could go on and on...I'm not arguing with you and yes...I probably am looking for some justification but logically and philosophically I would think the intent of Pauls words in historical context matters...no? If not, what about women wearing braided hair or gold jewelry?

 

[Homeby5]

I am a believer that God means what He says, I think its easy to try explain away any of God's commandments and I don't believe we should practice lying under any circumstances. I think you should have been honest with your mom and told her you're not giving her the pills. I think its an easy thing to do to find excuses why not to obey God, but if one wants to be a follower of Christ we should follow His example, who kept all of His Fathers commandments, John 15:10, 1 John 2:6 and His commandments are not meant to be grievous 1 John 5:3, there actually for our own good.

Ok...what about the spies of Jericho when Rahab lied? Was that wrong? She was blessed for it? What about the midwives who lied to Pharaoh? Elisha lied to the Syrian enemies he struck blind of where he was taking them? Doesn't the intent of telling someone something an untruth matter in Gods eyes? Isn't that what God means when he commands us not to lie and be honest? I was protecting a drug addict not lying for my sake?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Ok...what about the spies of Jericho when Rahab lied? Was that wrong? She was blessed for it? What about the midwives who lied to Pharaoh? Elisha lied to the Syrian enemies he struck blind of where he was taking them? Doesn't the intent of telling someone something an untruth matter in Gods eyes? Isn't that what God means when he commands us not to lie and be honest? I was protecting a drug addict not lying for my sake?

There were lots of hero’s in the scriptures who disobeyed God. They all repented and turned from their sin and their sins were remembered no more. Repentance means one has a changed heart.

We all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory. In the Old Covenant they sacrificed animals for the forgiveness of sins, in the New Covenant Jesus became our Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience. Acts 2:38 We should be uncomfortable sinning, this is the Holy Spirit working with us leading us to repentance. The dangerous place to be is when we are knowingly sinning and it no longer makes us uncomfortable. Jesus can help with this if we ask for His help.

 

[Enilorac]

Ok...not arguing...but for the third time, and no one has responded yet, which laws are we allowed to break that is NOT sin? Do you repent of your sin every time you speed 1 MPH over? What about of you don't stop at a stop sign behind the line? How about Jaywalking? I could go on and on...I'm not arguing with you and yes...I probably am looking for some justification but logically and philosophically I would think the intent of Pauls words in historical context matters...no? If not, what about women wearing braided hair or gold jewelry?

None of them. Not a single one. You're attempting to justify breaking some laws that have serious consequences.
1 MPH over the limit can earn you a trip to traffic court.
Stopping over the line can earn you a trip to traffic court.
Jaywalking can earn you a trip to court
Women's hair was a cultural thing, showing off wealth.

Stop trying to justify your actions. I'd be careful of getting doxxed here. The legal and financial repercussions of what you're doing could land you behind bars and loss of income for quite some time to come. You are knowingly and willingly breaking a number of laws here. You can't think that God is ok with you KNOWINGLY breaking laws and then "repenting". True repentance would include coming clean to the authorities regarding your finances and taking the penalty. Stop trying to justify your lawlessness.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Hey guys,
I'm a seasoned believer but am having a hard time with the theology of paying taxes in each and every situation.
My example is that I live in an area where there is a shortage of housing and high rent. Housing is strictly regulated and because of the housing shortages, people illegally rent out all kinds of attachments to their house.
Anyway...I built a home with an attached apartment because my parents were elderly and they needed full term care and wanted to live with me. Because of strict building codes I installed an illegal kitchen in the attached apartment. They lived with me for about 5 years. My Father passed and my Mother went into a full time facility.
Ok...now I rent the apartment out to a young girl. She pays me cash. If I claim it as rental income then it can possibly open a door of a LOT of problems. If the county finds out then I may have to tear out my kitchen for the tenant. Also...my daughter lives across the street and she may one day need to live there. I don't want to go down the road of claiming income, writing off deductions, etc... because of the problems listed above. Also...the extra income from the cash may cause insurance issues because I had a stroke in 2009 and am on SSDI.
My problem is that I am trying to justify not reporting the cash I get from her renting part of my home. I know the verses in Romans and the Gospels about paying the Gov't what is required. I have read theological opinions on the subject. But in this day and age, is that "rule" applicable to our tax codes, especially given the complexity? Is it a sin if someone doesn't pay all the tax for every bit of income in each and every situation? If we get down to it...then every time someone works for $50 for a side gig, then are we supposed to report it as income?
Now...I am a logical Bible believing Christian and part of me says yes...I should pay every cent of the taxes. But another part of me says that Paul and Christ was referring to Christians obeying the orders of the Roman State and not causing an uprising while expecting a new Jewish (or Christian) kingdom. In other words...it was not to cause treason. Also...
Anyway...what do you guys think? I know that deep down I am looking for justification but please give me some theological reasoning?
Thanks guys and thanks for having me here

You mentioned that "I installed an illegal kitchen in the attached apartment", this led to the point that you are afraid to pay taxes, in case you get found out, and have to remove it.

The right thing to do is to remove the kitchen. It was wrong to do it in the first place. I know this will mean a loss of income for the attachment. It may go against what your heart wants, but it is the right thing to do.

 

[Homeby5]

None of them. Not a single one. You're attempting to justify breaking some laws that have serious consequences.
1 MPH over the limit can earn you a trip to traffic court.
Stopping over the line can earn you a trip to traffic court.
Jaywalking can earn you a trip to court
Women's hair was a cultural thing, showing off wealth.

Stop trying to justify your actions. I'd be careful of getting doxxed here. The legal and financial repercussions of what you're doing could land you behind bars and loss of income for quite some time to come. You are knowingly and willingly breaking a number of laws here. You can't think that God is ok with you KNOWINGLY breaking laws and then "repenting". True repentance would include coming clean to the authorities regarding your finances and taking the penalty. Stop trying to justify your lawlessness.

But is that 1mph speeding incident a sin? Do you fall on your knees and repent? Same with Jaywalking? If you cross the road in a storm and jaywalk do you repent?
As far as you claiming women wearing g jewelry as cultural and that specific command in scripture not applying today...that may be and I could make a great theological argument based on your opinion but it would be based on history and the association of women in that society. Not on Biblical truths. I can claim that you are simply justifying sinful actions of wearing jewelry of braiding hair. You see how this goes?
I can make the same argument about our taxes and having to follow them to the EXACT letter of the law. Are you equating Paul's intent of Christians being good citizens and obeying the simple Roman tax system to our convoluted system today? As I mentioned earlier, and no one answered, every one of us probably does not pay taxes on every income situation. Again...if a kid gives a parent a small amount of cash to help buy groceries, is it a sin for the parent to not report that income? And there are hundreds of other examples where we evade taxes all the time on unreported income.
You see...our theology is based on Biblical, historical and systematical logic. Give me theological reasons for your opinion? I came here wanting a serious theological conversation about a specific situation and it seems all I get is simple basic verses that can be taken in a different context and I have read 1000 times.
Now I already admitted I probably am trying to justify something...that's on me.

 

[Homeby5]

There were lots of hero’s in the scriptures who disobeyed God. They all repented and turned from their sin and their sins were remembered no more. Repentance means one has a changed heart.

We all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory. In the Old Covenant they sacrificed animals for the forgiveness of sins, in the New Covenant Jesus became our Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience. Acts 2:38 We should be uncomfortable sinning, this is the Holy Spirit working with us leading us to repentance. The dangerous place to be is when we are knowingly sinning and it no longer makes us uncomfortable. Jesus can help with this if we ask for His help.

I believe you whole heartedly. But I want you to give me deeper theology on the examples I asked? Are you saying Rahab and Elisha and the midwives sinned and should have repented?

 

[Enilorac]

But is that 1mph speeding incident a sin? Do you fall on your knees and repent? Same with Jaywalking? If you cross the road in a storm and jaywalk do you repent?

Yes, it is. Its violating a law. God set the secular authorities too. Again, if I knew who you were, I'd turn you in to the IRS and Social Security. It's people like you committing fraud, yes, fraud, that make people like my late husband have to go through numerous doctors' appointments and court hearings to get the SSDI he deserved.

Stop it. Just stop it. Confess to God and the lawful authorities that are set over you.

Are you equating Paul's intent of Christians being good citizens and obeying the simple Roman tax system to our convoluted system today? As I mentioned earlier, and no one answered, every one of us probably does not pay taxes on every income situation. Again...if a kid gives a parent a small amount of cash to help buy groceries, is it a sin for the parent to not report that income? And there are hundreds of other examples where we evade taxes all the time on unreported income.

STOP it. STOP it. So what if the system is convoluted. It doesn't matter. Most of my income is tax-free. I DO pay taxes on the rest. There is a threshold for income. SSDI has other regulations. Just because there are hundreds of examples doesn't mean that it's ok to do this.

 

[bèlla]

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.

There’s enough Christian scandals to answer the question easily. Don’t give the devil a reason to attack you. Nothing stays buried forever. It always comes out. By the time they finishing calculating the underpayment, penalties, and violations (with SSI if applicable) you’ll wish you told the truth.

The fallout will be greater than the other. Maybe the Lord is trying to save your neck. The omission has spiritual consequences. You’re giving him carte blanche to mess with you. Do the right thing.

~bella

 

[Homeby5]

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.

There’s enough Christian scandals to answer the question easily. Don’t give the devil a reason to attack you. Nothing stays buried forever. It always comes out. By the time they finishing calculating the underpayment, penalties, and violations (with SSI if applicable) you’ll wish you told the truth.

The fallout will be greater than the other. Maybe the Lord is trying to save your neck. The omission has spiritual consequences. You’re giving him carte blanche to mess with you. Do the right thing.

~bella

Yes...thanks. I don't want to give the Devil to attack me. And, I don't wan to get sidetracked...this isn't an issue with SSI or anything. This question is about conscience and are Christians supposed to pay every last cent of income tax owed. And if not...where do we draw the line?
I understand it may not be a black and white issue and it indeed may be a Romans 14 area of grey area sins where the faith of one determines whether it is an individual sin. I dunno... I want some theological guidance. IF every last cent of taxes has to be paid or it is a sin that helped nail my Lord to the cross then I guess we all have some sorting out to do because I cannot imagine anyone keeping such a stringent lifestyle because of conscience. But maybe we should?

 

[Kees Boer]

Hmmm.... you know during the time of Christ many people would pay over 50% of their income in taxes to the Romans. That's one reason why the tax collectors were hated so much... I'm throwing that our for whatever that is worth.

Now, as far as your taxes on that little addition, I don't want to sound like a cliche, but you really want to talk to an accountant. I know someone, who has rental properties and he doesn't have to pay any taxes on it, because the accountant knew things like deductions and depreciation... I have an accountant do my taxes and it is well worth it. Yes, I spend $150 on her doing my taxes, but I save a lot more money. You might not have to pay any taxes.

 

[Homeby5]

Hmmm.... you know during the time of Christ many people would pay over 50% of their income in taxes to the Romans. That's one reason why the tax collectors were hated so much... I'm throwing that our for whatever that is worth.

Never knew Romans taxed that high...not saying you are wrong though. I knew tax collectors were hated but according to Zacchaeus, I thought it was because of their dishonesty and charging too much.
But remember...in ancient Rome in Christ's time, they had no income tax. They mainly had land taxes, inheritance tax, auction taxes and import taxes. They accessed the taxable amount every so many years. It was sometimes 5 years. And often, emperors forgave those in arrears.
My point is that given the entire context of these Pauline epistles and the Gospels, I think the idea of Christ and Paul encouraging Christians to pay thier taxes was to not associate Christianity with a Roman insurrection. Be a good citizen. I cannot imagine applying our convoluted tax law today to Christs words. I don't think Paul or Christ would condemn a poor Christian for not paying a certain amount of tax on a side cash job in order to pay your utility bills, Childs medicine, etc... in todays world.

 

[Enilorac]

Be a good citizen. I cannot imagine applying our convoluted tax law today to Christs words.

Too bad. "Be a good citizen" includes paying the taxes you should be paying.

 

[Kees Boer]

Never knew Romans taxed that high...not saying you are wrong though. I knew tax collectors were hated but according to Zacchaeus, I thought it was because of their dishonesty and charging too much.
But remember...in ancient Rome in Christ's time, they had no income tax. They mainly had land taxes, inheritance tax, auction taxes and import taxes. They accessed the taxable amount every so many years. It was sometimes 5 years. And often, emperors forgave those in arrears.
My point is that given the entire context of these Pauline epistles and the Gospels, I think the idea of Christ and Paul encouraging Christians to pay thier taxes was to not associate Christianity with a Roman insurrection. Be a good citizen. I cannot imagine applying our convoluted tax law today to Christs words. I don't think Paul or Christ would condemn a poor Christian for not paying a certain amount of tax on a side cash job in order to pay your utility bills, Childs medicine, etc... in todays world.

Yes, I would say that's between you and God, but do remember you sign your tax returns... Again, especially with an addition to your house, I would really talk with an accountant. Who knows how many other deductions and what have you that the accountant can find.

But I wouldn't guess what Christ would think about something. Remember our heart (LEVAV, meaning thoughts) is desperately wicked. Jeremiah 17:10

 

[Joy]

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