Christian Libertarian...

faroukfarouk

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Taxes are the easiest to sort. You should only be taxed for what you will receive in service.
Up here also there has been a debate about, for example, who pays for medical treatment for asylum seekers while their claims are processed? Like, the Federal Government? the Provinces? does the balance sheet take precedence over collective compassion? These are all searching issues.
 
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Tetra

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Up here also there has been a debate about, for example, who pays for medical treatment for asylum seekers while their claims are processed? Like, the Federal Government? the Provinces? does the balance sheet take precedence over collective compassion? These are all searching issues.
Well, I'm Canadian... my views on this are certainly not Canadian I suspect. We could cover the bill until they can pay taxes... future taxation of those individuals would need to be at an increased rate to cover the cost of past treatment.

Alternatively, third party organizations and citizens could assist if they so desired.
 
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381465

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Up here also there has been a debate about, for example, who pays for medical treatment for asylum seekers while their claims are processed? Like, the Federal Government? the Provinces? does the balance sheet take precedence over collective compassion? These are all searching issues.
Collective compassion...new expression to me.
I'm assuming it means taxation for social programs?
We had a prior president refer to this as voluntary contributions.
Both sound awesome and optional.

Vounteering at gunpoint.
 
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Tetra

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Collective compassion...new expression to me.
I'm assuming it means taxation for social programs?
We had a prior president refer to this as voluntary contributions.
Both sound awesome and optional.

Vounteeing at gunpoint.
Give us your money to pay for someone who has nothing to do with you... or else.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Well, I'm Canadian... my views on this are certainly not Canadian I suspect. We could cover the bill until they can pay taxes... future taxation of those individuals would need to be at an increased rate to cover the cost of past treatment.

Alternatively, third party organizations and citizens could assist if they so desired.
It always baffles me how traditional growth areas such as Calgary and Alberta generally are targeted either in intention or practically by politicians in other parts of Canada with plans for higher taxes - and bureaucracy - in order to curb profit margins and make them more 'Canadian'. But then when the burden of costs for programs and welfare becomes higher and higher, the same politicians will wish that the growth of Calgary and Alberta should not be impeded, so that more wealth can continue to be generated. Is this "conservative"? is it "libertarian"? I don't know, but it seems that a lot depends of the geography of where the commentator is.
 
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Tree of Life

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Of course not as you're his guardian. You currently speak for him. There will come a point where you no longer have any claim over him though.

Are not children always obliged by God to honor their parents, no matter what age they are?
 
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381465

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Give us your money to pay for someone who has nothing to do with you... or else.

And if you don't like it, go to jail or back a candidate to run on tax and social program reform.
It's kinda hard to get some people to vote against Santa Claus/Uncle Sugar.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Collective compassion...new expression to me.
I'm assuming it means taxation for social programs?
We had a prior president refer to this as voluntary contributions.
Both sound awesome and optional.

Vounteering at gunpoint.
I guess some ppl would go to the Old Testament passages about being helpful towards the strangers within one's borders. Just as strangers had - sometimes - been compassionate towards Israelites in hours of need.

I do agree that welfare should not mushroom to unsustainable extents. It's interesting that when FD Roosevelt's Administration first came to office, it actually cut the budget rather than expanded it (though it did greatly expand later, including because of WW2).
 
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Halbhh

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I personally have a hard time compartmentalizing Christianity... to me, it's tied to my political outlook. However, I can agree with your comment.

One thing that helps me is to remember that not only do humans (and that means me too) make mistakes.... But in addition, we do not have total knowledge.

While I think a libertarian tending governing is typically good, I have to remember I don't have perfect understanding of all things, but only those things Christ gives to me.

He didn't say we should change the government even.

Paul. Paul addressed this. And so did Peter. We are not to change society by politics, revolution, etc., but instead by something vastly more powerful and effective -- by spreading the gospel.
 
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faroukfarouk

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And if you don't like it, go to jail or back a candidate to run on tax and social program reform.
It's kinda hard to get some people to vote against Santa Claus/Uncle Sugar.
Unlike in Europe with the EU, NAFTA does not have the same comprehensive provision for free movement of people, which means that Mexicans don't have the same rights as US citizens. So many US citizens have the idea that it's very good for US corporations to go to Mexico and take advantage of cheap labor and lower dues, while Mexicans should have considerably less privileges than Americans.

It's interesting that many elderly and ill Americans near the borders will often go to Mexico or Canada in order to buy cheaper meds which are otherwise identical to those on sale in the US.

I'm not sure whether this is actually a matter of "conservatism" or "libertarianism" but it does seem to be very strongly a matter of geographical perspective.
 
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faroukfarouk

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One thing that helps me is to remember that not only do humans (and that means me too) make mistakes.... But in addition, we do not have total knowledge.

While I think a libertarian tending governing is typically good, I have to remember I don't have perfect understanding of all things, but only those things Christ gives to me.

He didn't say we should change the government even.

Paul. Paul addressed this. And so did Peter. We are not to change society by politics, revolution, etc., but instead by something vastly more powerful and effective -- by spreading the gospel.
I do agree about the primacy of spreading the Gospel.
 
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Halbhh

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He didn't say we should change the government even.

Paul. Paul addressed this. And so did Peter. We are not to change society by politics, revolution, etc., but instead by something vastly more powerful and effective -- by spreading the gospel.

So, we are told the very radical instruction:

"Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh." 1 Peter chapter 2

(and not only from Peter)

It's....radical, really.

The revolution is individual, from Christ, and then the outward result in the society is later.
 
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Tree of Life

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Sure, but they can choose not to. That's up to them. As I said before, in the end, we will all stand before God.
But if he is obliged then it follows that I have a God-given right to his honor and therefore a God-given claim upon him.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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So, I'm a Christian Libertarian... just wondering if there are others on here who share the same political outlook as I?

If you don't understand the philosophy of liberty, I'd recommend checking out:

Wikipedia states:
"Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a collection of political philosophies and movements that uphold liberty as a core principle.[1]Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing freedom of choice, voluntary association, individual judgment, and self-ownership."
Libertarianism - Wikipedia

Was it not Gods intention that His people would be self governing with only Him as King. Yet, Isreal requested governance... and it wasn't a positive thing to God, in fact, He viewed it as a rejection of Himself.

"I will call on the Lord to send thunder and rain. And you will realize what an evil thing you did in the eyes of the Lord when you asked for a king" 1 Samuel 12:17

Ok, Tetra. To begin my personal evaluation on libertarian political viewpoints, I'm going to lay out two thought provoking (and short) videos that, for me, seem to sum up the basic differences. The first video is by a little gal (Julie Borowski) who presents a contrast between liberatarians and conservatives, and within that same video she provides a comparison between two examples of possible libertarians, one of which might be a "christian" type versus a "secular" type. So, here is this first video (it's 2 minutes long, roughly--short and sweet):


So, with her basic comparison in mind between basic Conservatives and two types of Libertarians, and without dissecting the things Robert Nozick has laid out, I now present the view of Baptist minister, Albert Mohler (as it is given in a group discussion among some other Christian leaders). While I'm not Baptist per say, and definitely a little bit more moderate in how I view politics, I do find his evaluation(s) about Liberatarianism something to think about, and I keep in mind that Baptists have historically been heavily involved in supporting another political issue which is related, i.e. the separation of Church and State. Let's here what Mohler has to say (6 minute video):


So, rather than being a Libertarian, I guess I'm a kind of Conservative who is supportive of proactive social welfare made by the Church.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid
 
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faroukfarouk

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I wonder who the people are deciding what Libertarians think and don't think as a group?
Broadbrush painting is sloppy.
I wonder what these people decide are thoughts and positions held by all Conservatives and all Liberals?
Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair is a specialist in going around the world telling people and governments what to think and what words mean (he does have his good points also); but it seems also that there are similarly plenty of people around who use labels, including Christian sounding ones, and then proceed to try to tell people what they ought to mean and speak on their behalf.
 
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Tetra

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Ok, Tetra. To begin my personal evaluation on libertarian political viewpoints, I'm going to lay out two thought provoking (and short) videos that, for me, seem to sum up the basic differences. The first video is by a little gal (Julie Borowski) who presents a contrast between liberatarians and conservatives, and within that same video she provides a comparison between two examples of possible libertarians, one of which might be a "christian" type versus a "secular" type. So, here is this first video (it's 2 minutes long, roughly--short and sweet):


So, with her basic comparison in mind between basic Conservatives and two types of Libertarians, and without dissecting the things Robert Nozick has laid out, I now present the view of Baptist minister, Albert Mohler (as it is given in a group discussion among some other Christian leaders). While I'm not Baptist per say, and definitely a little bit more moderate in how I view politics, I do find his evaluation(s) about Liberatarianism something to think about, and I keep in mind that Baptists have historically been heavily involved in supporting another political issue which is related, i.e. the separation of Church and State. Let's here what Mohler has to say (6 minute video):


So, rather than being a Libertarian, I guess I'm a kind of Conservative who is supportive of proactive social welfare made by the Church.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid
So I watched both videos...

As for your comments regarding the first video, I'd be personally more in line with her first example of a libertarian.

As for the second video with Mohler, I'd vehemently disagree with his position. For example, I don't see the gospel in opposition to libertarian philosophy like he does... and notice, after that claim, no evidence was shown that it is the case. Also, if that was the case, why did God wish His people to be libertarians (pre - first Samuel)?
 
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JingshenBianxi

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We can tell people about Him, we have no ability to force Him onto others.

We can only choose to make Him Lord over our own lives.

So when the Apostles went in the Roman synagogue preaching about Jesus whom they were prohibited to preach about...I don't see how that is fitting under the definition of a Libertarian.
 
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