Christian Libertarian...

[Tetra]

So, I'm a Christian Libertarian... just wondering if there are others on here who share the same political outlook as I?

If you don't understand the philosophy of liberty, I'd recommend checking out:

Wikipedia states:
"Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a collection of political philosophies and movements that uphold liberty as a core principle.[1]Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing freedom of choice, voluntary association, individual judgment, and self-ownership."
Libertarianism - Wikipedia

Was it not Gods intention that His people would be self governing with only Him as King. Yet, Isreal requested governance... and it wasn't a positive thing to God, in fact, He viewed it as a rejection of Himself.

"I will call on the Lord to send thunder and rain. And you will realize what an evil thing you did in the eyes of the Lord when you asked for a king" 1 Samuel 12:17

 

[381465]

Pretty close to it...maybe with some conservative leanings and one or two liberal fleeting thoughts.

 

[Albion]

So, I'm a Christian Libertarian... just wondering if there are others on here who share the same political outlook as I?

You mean, I take it, that you are a Christian who happens to also be a Libertarian when it comes to politics. (?)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So, I'm a Christian Libertarian... just wondering if there are others on here who share the same political outlook as I?

If you don't understand the philosophy of liberty, I'd recommend checking out:

Wikipedia states:
"Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a collection of political philosophies and movements that uphold liberty as a core principle.[1]Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing freedom of choice, voluntary association, individual judgment, and self-ownership."
Libertarianism - Wikipedia

Was it not Gods intention that His people would be self governing with only Him as King. Yet, Isreal requested governance... and it wasn't a positive thing to God, in fact, He viewed it as a rejection of Himself.

"I will call on the Lord to send thunder and rain. And you will realize what an evil thing you did in the eyes of the Lord when you asked for a king" 1 Samuel 12:17

... I'd like to think of myself as Liberated and Free, but then every time I do so, I end up going back to Orlando Patterson's book, "Freedom: Freedom in the Making of Western Culture"...which then makes me focus on Jesus...which makes me remember that Paul says we were bought at a price and that we are not "our own"...which then makes me think about the extent to which I am 'free' and what kind of 'freedom' I actually have in the fuller considerations of human existence, such as they are.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Albion]

Understood. But the 'answer' that occurs to me is that if we were to live in a perfectly Libertarian society we would be free to focus on Jesus in all the ways that you are referring to.

You wouldn't, for example, be prevented from giving all that you own to the poor or being either for or against the death penalty, as you see fit, etc.

 

[Tetra]

... I'd like to think of myself as Liberated and Free, but then every time I do so, I end up going back to Orlando Patterson's book, "Freedom: Freedom in the Making of Western Culture"...which then makes me focus on Jesus...which makes me remember that Paul says we were bought at a price and that we are not "our own"...which then makes me think about the extent to which I am 'free' and what kind of 'freedom' I actually have in the fuller considerations of human existence, such as they are.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Correct, you are God's, you are not someone's else's though.

 

[Tetra]

You mean, I take it, that you are a Christian who happens to also be a Libertarian when it comes to politics. (?)

I personally have a hard time compartmentalizing Christianity... to me, it's tied to my political outlook. However, I can agree with your comment.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Correct, you are God's, you are not someone's else's though.

...this is true. But, if this is the case, then we'd have to qualify the differences between the actual social outlooks of a 'Christian Libertarian' and a good ol' secular Libertarian. And I'd expect for there to be some differences.

 

[Albion]

I guess I was trying to say that there are some Libertarians who think that if society were to give them perfect freedom they would be ethically obliged to disavow all altruism. That's what Ayn Rand argued for. But you, Tetra, are saying that you'd be free to be whatever you think Christ is calling you to be and do, not to pursue some sort of enlightened selfishness, etc..

 

[Tetra]

I guess I was trying to say that there are some Libertarians who think that if society were to give them perfect freedom they would be ethically obliged to disavow all altruism. That's what Ayn Rand argued for. But you, Tetra, are saying that you'd be free to be whatever you think Christ is calling you to be and do, not to pursue some sort of enlightened selfishness, etc..

That's what I would argue I should do as a Christian Libertarian, however, what someone does with their freedom is up to them... either way, we all come before God in the end.

 

[Tetra]

...this is true. But, if this is the case, then we'd have to qualify the differences between the actual social outlooks of a 'Christian Liberatarian' and a good ol' secular Liberatarian. And I'd expect for there to be some differences.

What would you identify as some differences?

 

[Tree of Life]

So, I'm a Christian Libertarian... just wondering if there are others on here who share the same political outlook as I?

If you don't understand the philosophy of liberty, I'd recommend checking out:

Wikipedia states:
"Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a collection of political philosophies and movements that uphold liberty as a core principle.[1]Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing freedom of choice, voluntary association, individual judgment, and self-ownership."
Libertarianism - Wikipedia

Was it not Gods intention that His people would be self governing with only Him as King. Yet, Isreal requested governance... and it wasn't a positive thing to God, in fact, He viewed it as a rejection of Himself.

"I will call on the Lord to send thunder and rain. And you will realize what an evil thing you did in the eyes of the Lord when you asked for a king" 1 Samuel 12:17

Since Jesus both created me and redeemed me he has a higher claim on my life than I do. I therefore am not my own, but have been bought with a price and I am obliged both by creation and redemption to offer him my entire life as a living sacrifice.

Does this square with Christian Libertarianism?

 

[Albion]

Before 2PhiloVoid answers that, I'd like to note that the popular image of Libertarians as atheists and rugged individualists who expect everyone else to take care of themselves isn't true in practice. While some take that approach, many are practicing Christians and believe that Liberty in the socio-political realm simply facilitates our being whatever we want to be, even if that's to live among lepers or enter a monastery. It's all about being able to make your own choices.

 

[Tetra]

Since Jesus both created me and redeemed me he has a higher claim on my life than I do. I therefore am not my own, but have been bought with a price and I am obliged both by creation and redemption to offer him my entire life as a living sacrifice.

Does this square with Christian Libertarianism?

For me it would, but maybe there are some who might not agree, since there are a range of libertarian views.

I would say, while God has claim on your life, no other human does.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What would you identify as some differences?

Let me think on it; it's been a while since I've read Robert Nozick.

 

[381465]

If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice.

Just because I chose to post that quote.

 

[Tetra]

Before 2PhiloVoid answers that, I'd like to note that the popular image of Libertarians as atheists and rugged individualists who expect everyone else to take care of themselves isn't true in practice

If someone else was to say that, I'd argue they weren't actually libertarians, as someone taking care of me would be dependency... that is, unless I choose that.

 

[pescador]

381465's signature says in part, ""The heart of the matter then is not the existence of guns, knives or pressure cookers, it is this: It's the evil lurking in the hearts of people." My take on the subject is that there are many, many non-Christians, a.k.a. sinners. If people are governed by sin then they will think and act sinfully. Without government to control their behavior chaos and violence and the strong dominating the weak would reign.

Government should be a way to make sure that all people are treated equally and fairly; that the strong and/or sinful would not be allowed to dominate others. Without government there would be chaos as long as sin reigns.

 

[faroukfarouk]

For me it would, but maybe there are some who might not agree, since there are a range of libertarian views.

I would say, while God has claim on your life, no other human does.

I think that the word Libertarian can probably be understood at different levels. And in French (up here we are officially bilingual) the word 'libéral' can actually mean more or less conservative with a strong commitment to market economics, while English-speakers might not use 'liberal' etc. in quite the same way.

 

[Tetra]

381465's signature says in part, ""The heart of the matter then is not the existence of guns, knives or pressure cookers, it is this: It's the evil lurking in the hearts of people." My take on the subject is that there are many, many non-Christians, a.k.a. sinners. If people are governed by sin then they will think and act sinfully. Without government to control their behavior chaos and violence and the strong dominating the weak would reign.

Government should be a way to make sure that all people are treated equally and fairly; that the strong and/or sinful would not be allowed to dominate others. Without government there would be chaos as long as sin reigns.

So how did it work prior to Israel asking for a king? God's people prior to that were un-governed, and it was God's intention they would be un-governed. Also, I think you're forgetting the Doctrine of Common Grace here.