Christian Jews

GreenEyedLady

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Praise the Lord my friend saw that light and is no longer studing the JW beliefs.
However, she has found a new church that is messianic jewish. This church seems pretty cool. They celebrate all the jewsih festivals that the early churchs did in the bible (NT).
Why is NOT every christian celebrating these festivals?How improtant are they, and how do YOU feel about them?
GEL
 

GreenEyedLady

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LOL!
Well...these according to my friend are festivals that The people in the NT did. These are the festivals that God said was OK.
?!?!?!?!
HUH???
They of course are not Nessacary for salvation or anything like that...its just a celebration according to my friend.
Being that she was raised with the beliefs that ALL holidays are pagan and bad...she has "found" holidays that are "good"
GEL
 
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owen_rocks

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Originally posted by GreenEyedLady
LOL!
Well...these according to my friend are festivals that The people in the NT did. These are the festivals that God said was OK.
?!?!?!?!
HUH???
They of course are not Nessacary for salvation or anything like that...its just a celebration according to my friend.
Being that she was raised with the beliefs that ALL holidays are pagan and bad...she has "found" holidays that are "good"
GEL

A couple of relevant verses:

We aren't under obligation to keep any of the Old Testament Ceremonial laws:

Col 2:16-17 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

However, Paul in the Letter to the Romans seems to indicate that it is ok to celebrate those days, if someone is so inclined:

Rom 14:5-6 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

From what I've read, there were Christians in Rome who
were converted from Judaism, and still felt they should
celebrate those festivals unto God.

However, not for salvation or as a meritorious work, which Paul anathematizes in the book of Galatians:

Gal 4:10-11 You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.



peace,
owen_rocks
 
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GreenEyedLady

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They DO NOT feel like they are BOUND BY LAW!
They know they are free. They feel it is good to celelbrate in Christ this way. Some of them might be sabbath worshippers..but most of them are not. They may study on the sabbath but it is asured in the church that noone is BOUND to the sabbath as they were in the OT.
Just thougt I would clear that up. MJ have differant churchs...not one is the same. Some believe in tongues others don;t.

GEL
 
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Josephus

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Something I'd like to encouage those who do not celebrate the 7 Feasts of the year:

Each of the feasts is a direct symbol of the fulfillment of Jesus Christ. For example, Passover is the Crucifixion. The Feast of Weeks is Pentecost. Jesus was probably born on the Feast of Tabernacles (God "living" with man) in a festival "booth" in the only open space available at the time: a manger area. Yom Kippor (Day of Atonement) is yet to be fulfilled at the Last Day. the Feast of Trumpets ...is of course THE RAPTURE! Jesus is the substance that fulfills the symbol of the Feasts. Do a study sometime. Once you know what the Feasts are, and what they correlate to, celebrating them "In Rememberence of Me" takes on a whole new, deeper and enriching meaning!
 
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JohnR7

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>>Why is NOT every christian celebrating these festivals?

We have been given different ones to observe. Like recently we just had pentacost. Of course the Hebrews celebrated pentacost also. Resurrection sunday for us, is passover for them. They teach their children about how God delievered them from the bondage and slavery of Egypt. We teach our kids about how we were delivered from the bondage and slavery of sin. We do not do the feast of trumpets because that is still future for us.
 
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Christian Jews

Look how beautiful those 2 words look together...How beautiful!

Thank you for this post...I would also like to know more about the traditions and how they could possibly affect us as Christians in following them as well. But as someone said, those traditions ( especially food ones ) aren't required for us anymore. But it would still be interesting.

God bless

a4c
 
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Jenna

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I think it is a beautiful thing, for people all over the world to celebrate the feasts that God gave to his children. I have a little bit of a problem with the idea that Christians have "new" celebrations due to things that have happened in the NT. Just because we choose to celebrate an event, that doesn't make it a celebration that was given by God. I don't know if I am being clear of not. Anyone get what I am trying to say?

Sometimes I think that alot of it has to do with a good number of Christians wanting to seperate themselves from the Jews, a notion that just confounds me. Then again, it is beyond me how anyone can say that they are Christian and then turn around and curse the Jews for "killing Jesus". The whole relationship between the children in God's family just confuses me utterly. :(

Oh bother.....I give up. My communication skills stink today...... lol
 
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dignitized

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Pray4: Welp, since our church started out as a synagogue and our pastor has been friends with a messinic rabbit since before he even knew the Lord, we have a firm connection to the roots of the faith. We also have the fullness of the NT meanings of the OT feasts. I have to believe that one cannot understand the fullness of the passover without understanding the Eucharist also.
 
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Charles YTK

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Greetings to all,

I was reading this thread and wanted to interject concerning Br. Max post # 12

Jenna: what many of the Messianic bent fail to realize and many protestants to boot, is that the Eucharist is the Passover - that Penticost is the feast of booths - that many of the OT feasts have NT renditions and NT meanings.

Charles YTK>>> I do not agree with this. The Eucharist is too tightly connected to the catholic process of transsubstaniation, where the bread and the wine literaly become the flesh and the blood of messiah through the the reciting of magical words. All connected with Pagan practice, and painted over with some christinization paint to make new rituals. Passover is about the Lords deliverance from the Satanic ruled wold, and is also a picture of the tribulation which is coming, the last great exodus.

Penetocst is not the same as Booths. Penecost is the same as Shavuot, (the feast of weeks). This feast is about renewing the covenant. Every Jew knew this as did the disciples who were waiting in the upper room that day, and it a display of divine power we have Sinai enacted all oer again with flames of fire, and people hearing the Lord in their own languages, and a covenant was entered into. This time the new covenant, where that which had been previously written on stone is now written upon mens hearts through the spirit. These are important milestone events that have a place in every believers life, and only hasatan wins by our sweeping away these rich lessons which God himslef designed and gave to us, so that we might know Him and the Messiah better.

Blessings to you

Charles YTK
 
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Well said Charles, we do not find the term "eucharist" in the Bible.

(*This portion of the post edited out for inappropriate statements about&nbsp;denominational differences)

I do not see how Messianic jews would celebrate the jewish passover which was just a shadow of good things to come, especially since "Christ our passover is sacrificed for us" 1 Corinthians 5:7.

Catholics keep participating in the mass (which they say is the same sacrifice) denying the once for all finished sacrifice of Christ 2000 years ago. The eucharist denies the eternal efficacy to all generations of Christ's offering for sin.

Noel
 
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isshinwhat

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Well said Charles, we do not find the term "eucharist" in the Bible.

Actually the term "eucharista" appears in the New Testament at least 15 times.

I do not agree with this. The Eucharist is too tightly connected to the catholic process of transsubstaniation, where the bread and the wine literaly become the flesh and the blood of messiah through the the reciting of magical words. All connected with Pagan practice, and painted over with some christinization paint to make new rituals. Passover is about the Lords deliverance from the Satanic ruled wold, and is also a picture of the tribulation which is coming, the last great exodus.

The priest Mel-chiz'edek did indeed offer bread and wine as a sacrifice (Genesis 14:18). This type of offering, called a "toda," is what Mel-chiz'edek offered, and is what Christ, who was "designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchiz'edek" offers today as both the Priest and Victim (Hebrews 5:10). The Lord said through the Prophet Malachi, "My name will be great among the nations, from the rising to the setting of the sun. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to my name, because my name will be great among the nations," says the LORD Almighty."

We know three very important things now.

1) Mel-chiz'edek offered bread and wine as a sacrifice to God the Father.
2) Christ is the eternal High Priest in the order of Mel-chiz'edek.
3) The Lord said that a pure sacrifice would be offered to Him forever.

Paul says in Romans 15:16 that he has been graced "to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit." The priesthood that Paul belonged to was the priesthood of Mel-chiz'edek, of which Christ is the High Priest. It is through the bread and wine that Christ declared to be His Body and Blood that we offer our sacrifices, our very selves, to God the Father through Christ. We are joined with Christ into His Body, and through this mystical union we "escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). It is this divine nature, this eternal life that is the Most Holy Trinity that we partake in when we commune with Christ in the Eucharist. We have been given the gift of participating in God's very own "toda" to Himself, Calvary, when we receive the Eucharist.

As you said before, this Passover, which we participate in through the Eucharist, is the greatest source of "deliverance from the Satanic ruled wold" available to us. Far from a Christianized pagan practice, the Eucharist is the fulfillment of the Passover. It is Christ's very offering to the Father which we are so blessed to participate in, and it has been believed from Apostolic times, indeed, it is a teaching of Christ Himself.

"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again"
Ignatius of Antioch,Epistle to Smyrnaeans,7,1(c.A.D. 110),in ANF,I:89

Keep in mind St. Ignatius was a disciple of the Apostle John, was ordained a Bishop by Saint Peter. He provides an excellent Apostolic witness.

"For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour,having been made flesh and blood for our salvation,so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word,and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished,is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh."
Justin Martyr,First Apology,66(A.D. 110-165),in ANF,I:185

Notice here the bread and wine become "transmuted" through the prayers of His word.

"But what consistency is there in those who hold that the bread over which thanks have been given is the Body of their Lord,and the cup His Blood,if they do not acknowledge that He is the Son of the Creator of the world..."
Irenaeus,Against Heresies,IV:18,2(c.A.D. 200),in JUR,I:95

Again, it is only after the prayers of thanks (eucharista) have been said that the bread becomes the Body of Christ.

This Apostolic (notice each of those quotes comes from 215 and 125 years prior to Nicea) belief in the Sacraments is the key to understanding Christ's fulfillment of the Law and our participation in that fulfillment.

God Bless,

Neal
 
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After the destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70 CE, Judaism was forced to redefine itself apart from its traditional Temple rituals. The Pharisees had won by default, the power of the Sadducees was directly linked with Temple worship. When the Temple was destroyed, the Sadducees lost everything that gave them authority.

In the wake of the Temple destruction, the Nazarenes (Messianics) were forced out of the synagogues by modification of one of the standard prayers.

With the followers of Yeshua effectively shut out of the “mainline” Synagogues, missionary work was no longer possible among Torah observant people. From now on the audience would be a pagan audience. As Eusebius states:

Then starting out upon long journeys they performed the office of evangelists, being filled with the desire to preach Christ to those who had not yet heard the word of faith, and to deliver to them the divine Gospels. And when they had only laid the foundations of the faith in foreign places, they appointed others as pastors, and entrusted them with the nurture of those that had recently been brought in, while they themselves went on again to other countries and nations, with the grace and the co-operation of God.

-- Eusebius of Caesarea, Church History: Book III, Chapter 37

http://web.cbn.org/bibleresources/theology/eusebius/churchhistory/eusebius-b3-38.asp

Eusebius’ remarks tell us a great deal as to how and when the “Church” turned from its Hebrew roots to become the Hellenstic Catholic Church of the second century and beyond. First of all, he tells us very clearly that the evangelists went to those who had never yet heard the Word of God. These were apparently pagans who lacked any upbringing or training in Torah. Without any training or knowledge of Torah, they would have been completely incapable of discerning the validity of their message. Unlike the Bereans, whom Paul commended because they tested his message against the Torah, these people had no such way of guarding themselves.

Secondly, after staying only long enough to lay a minimal foundation before moving on, care and leadership of these new converts was put into the hands of men who were, themselves, new converts – violating one of Paul’s most basic tenants that an overseer “…must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil” (1 Timothy 3:6). So then, not only were these men untrained in the Torah, there is no indication that they ever would receive Torah instruction, even after their conversion. Eusebius even tells of how one young man was chosen for “leadership training” based on his “excellent physique, attractive appearance, and ardent spirit.” Therefore, being left with no formal training and perhaps only a single copy of a gospel account, they were left to fend for themselves as they tried to teach their new churches how to walk a godly way.

One has only to scan the lists of early Church Bishops to see names such as Xystus, Hero, Telesphorus, Eros, Theophilus, and on it goes. The information we have of these early leaders shows that they were all utterly deficient in Torah training. Rather, their training was in Hellenist Philosophy and it was through the eyes of a Greek philosopher that they interpreted and developed their new Christian religion.

The impact of this can be seen very early in the Church’s development among the pagan peoples. The distortion of the Lord’s Supper, which was associated with the Passover Seder and which Paul admonished the Corinthian congregation to keep (1 Corinthians 5:7-8), came very early on. As early as 107 CE, we see the Christian Church developing a whole separate theology and cult around this observance. No longer is the practice associated with the Passover meal (which itself was eventually formally abolished by the Church), rather it is given an entirely new name, the Eucharist. The celebration of the “Eucharist” was to be given magical powers and strictly controlled. For example, it was to be considered valid only when it was held under the bishop or someone to whom he had committed it. It was given the status of transubstantiation for it was said that “the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ.” And that “this same Bread is the medicine of immortality, the antidote against death, and everlasting life in Jesus Christ.” With this we see all the primary elements of a Catholic Mass as early as 107 CE.

Shimon
 
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