Christian humanism

lucaspa

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Christian Humanism

"The view that individuals and their culture have value in the Christian life. Justin Martyr appears to have been the first to offer a formulation of Christianity that included an acceptance of classical achievements as he stated in the Apology (1.46) that Christ the Word had put culture under his control. Such an approach, he believed, would restrain believers from leading vulgar lives while at the same time keeping them from attaching more importance to human culture than to the truths of the faith.


During the Middle Ages little attention was paid to humanism, but with the beginning of the Renaissance there was a revival of that perspective. Renaissance humanism was both an outlook and a method. It has been described as "man's discovery of himself and the world." The worth of earthly existence for its own sake was accepted, and the otherworldliness of medieval Christianity was disparaged. Humanists believed that the pursuit of secular life was not only proper but even meritorious.

Closely allied to the new view of worldly life was a devotion to nature and its beauty as part of a broadened religious outlook. Yet Renaissance humanism must be viewed from another vantage point. Those involved in the movement were devoted to the studia humanitatis, or the liberal arts, including history, literary criticism, grammar, poetry, philology, and rhetoric. These subjects were taught from classical texts of the Greco - Roman period and were intended to help students understand and deal with other people. In addition, the humanists valued ancient artifacts and manuscripts and tried to revive classical life styles.

Many Christians, including Savonarola and Zwingli, reacted against the more secular approach of humanism; but others such as John Colet, Thomas More, and Erasmus felt that great benefits would come from the revival of classicism and the development of historical criticism. It has been pointed out that even John Calvin reveals the influence of humanism. The new Renaissance philological tools were helpful in studying the Bible, and the ancient view of man held the promise for better government and greater social justice. A wedding of the ethical and social concern of the Renaissance with the introspective force of Christianity held the possibility for church renewal in the minds of many sixteenth century scholars. Christian humanist teaching was kept alive by many Anglicans, by the moderates in the Church of Scotland, by certain German pietists, and through the philosophy of Kant. It continues in the twentieth century among such writers as Jacques Maritain and Hans Kung.

Those who believe that the Christian revelation has a humanistic emphasis point to the fact that man was made in the image of God, that Jesus Christ became man through the incarnation, and that the worth of the individual is a consistent theme in the teaching of Jesus. Indeed, when asked to give a summary of the life that pleases God, Christ advised his listeners to "love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind" and to "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matt. 22:37, 39). (note use of scripture)
Christian humanists acknowledge the contributions of other forms of humanism, such as the classical variety that discovered the value of human liberty, and the Marxists, who realize that man has been estranged from the good life because he is dispossessed of property and subordinated to material and economic forces. However, they caution that these other forms can degenerate into excessive individualism or savage collectivism because they operate without God. The Christian humanist values culture but confesses that man is fully developed only as he comes into a right relationship with Christ. When this happens, a person can begin to experience growth in all areas of life as the new creation of revelation (2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15)."
 
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GadFly

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You guys have a point you are trying to get across to us? What part of the no# statement that the Wesleyan Parish considers the scriptures the authority on this sub forum do you guys not understand?

There is nothing to discuss on this thread because this sub forum does not recognize that Christian humanism exist. We believe in born again believers doing good works in the name of a deified Christ and then His glory is seen by man who hopefully turns to Christ. Your efforts to spread humanistic philosophy is a violation of the rules of the Wesleyan Parish. In order to make sure your efforts are appreciated, please ask the mods to move your thread to the liberal Christian forum.
 
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cavell

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Christian humanism

A contradiction of terms, ideas, thoughts etc.

Christian relates to Jesus. The followers of Jesus were first called Christians at Antioch" Acts 11;26.

Humanism is not a biblical word and cannot be found in scripture.

Your argument would be termed 'liberal' not biblical.

Liberal....free...favourable to reform....etc.
 
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GadFly

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Here is a repost for you.
Humanism Is the Antichrist
Humanism is the moral philosophy without God. Its name is coined from the word human. It tells a lie in that it claims to be equal or even superior to God. In reference to all other moral philosophies, it is the anti theist, anti Christian, anti Jewish and anti spiritual philosophy. It is the default philosophy of man who believes in himself and not God. Humanism believes man has the reasoning and intellectual authority to decide what man needs and how man can solve his life’s problems of poverty and what lifestyles man should have.

A humanist can be an atheist, socialist, capitalist, communist, liberal politician and theologian but he can not be a practicing Christian. A humanist does not believe in absolutes such as good, evil, or perminate moral codes that come from God. A humanist is allowed to believe in God but he is not to use God or in the formations of society. The philosophy of moral relativity belongs to humanism in the same way that world wide liberal politics belongs to humanism. The more you describe humanism, it is clear that it is foreign to Christianity but it does meet the scripture criteria of the antichrist. .

The antichrist is not mentioned in the Bible in no other scriptures except in the Epistles of John where John referred to philosophers who took the message of Christ falsely to the world. These men denied the deity of Christ and were deceivers of men. John noted that you could preach Christ but not be part of Christ’s body. John did not preach what eschatologists have conditioned people to believe today. John nowhere indicated that “the antichrist” would be a single person to appear at the end of time. The antichrist was and is a philosophy that has always been in the world. Those who opposed the deity of Christ’s time were humanist and they remain so today. Christians who deny that Christ should not be used in politic and formations of society are part of antichrist today. Christ’s purpose was to take the gospel to the world and made no attempt to limit the use of God in society.

Modern eschatology that highlights the antichrist sells books but does little to spread the gospel. Christian are made to look for the coming of a specific man but the wolf has been in the flock of sheep, dressed in sheep’s clothing, all along. He is a humanist that preaches the good works of man and denies the power of the word of God to work the mystery of salvation in our lives.
 
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lucaspa

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You guys have a point you are trying to get across to us?

You have made numerous statements about humanism. So I went and did some research on it and found a site describing Christian Humanism.

What part of the no# statement that the Wesleyan Parish considers the scriptures the authority on this sub forum do you guys not understand?

Did you miss the justification by scripture? Here, let me help you out:
"Those who believe that the Christian revelation has a humanistic emphasis point to the fact that man was made in the image of God, that Jesus Christ became man through the incarnation, and that the worth of the individual is a consistent theme in the teaching of Jesus. Indeed, when asked to give a summary of the life that pleases God, Christ advised his listeners to "love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind" and to "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matt. 22:37, 39)." (note use of scripture)

"The Christian humanist values culture but confesses that man is fully developed only as he comes into a right relationship with Christ. When this happens, a person can begin to experience growth in all areas of life as the new creation of revelation (2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15)."

Now, you can't deny that the authority of scripture is being used. What you will have to do is try to show that scripture is being misused. As I did on your thread about Humanism (which you reposted below; do you want me to repost my reply and discuss the misuse of the authority of scripture in it?)

There is nothing to discuss on this thread because this sub forum does not recognize that Christian humanism exist.

Where does it say that? I've been all over the Sticky Threads and cannot find a pronouncement about that. I have also been to the UMC website and cannot find a statement to that effect there, either.

We believe in born again believers doing good works in the name of a deified Christ and then His glory is seen by man who hopefully turns to Christ.

And that is what is stated in the article on Christian Humanism.

Your efforts to spread humanistic philosophy is a violation of the rules of the Wesleyan Parish.

I've been over the Sticky Threads for this subforum and cannot find anything about "humanist philosophy".

I am not "spreading humanistic philosophy". I'm sorry you got the wrong impression. I am providing information. Look closely in the OP and you will see the entire post is in quotes. That means it is someone else talking, not me. HOwever, nothing in the essay was advocating Christian humanism; it was simply explaining it.

Second, the essay refutes the idea that humanism is automatically "antiChrist". There are several forms of humanism. This one does not deny the existence of God, the divinity of Christ, etc. Rather, it says that focussing on humans is part of Christ's message.

Within the site are discussed other forms of humanism, if anyone is interested. In particular, secular humanism does explicitly deny the existence of God. The Humanist Manifesto has such an explicit statement. So no Christian can be a secular humanist. It's just that secular humanism isn't all of humanism.
 
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Chris81

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lucaspa

Why did you start this thread? It seems like these threads are targeted specifically at Gadfly as though you are purposely trying to push at Gadfly's buttons.

For the last few weeks it seems like the Wesley's Parish has primarily become a running argument between lucaspa and Gadfly. Can you two come to some sort of peace so we can all return to having friendly conversations as a good a loving Methodist family.

The Wesley's Parish was always a safe place that we could go and share thoughts with other friendly Methodist. Unfortunately day by day you guys are turning this forum into the General Theology forum.
 
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lucaspa

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Christian humanism

A contradiction of terms, ideas, thoughts etc.

Christian relates to Jesus. The followers of Jesus were first called Christians at Antioch" Acts 11;26.

Humanism is not a biblical word and cannot be found in scripture.

Your argument would be termed 'liberal' not biblical.

Liberal....free...favourable to reform....etc.

I'm sorry, Cavell, but as a non-Wesleyan you are not allowed to argue doctrine here. I would point out that "Trinity" is also not a Biblical word and cannot be found in scripture. Should we stop referring to ourselves as "Trinitarians"?

I have found another essay I suggest everyone read. I will post parts of it below. Notice it comes from a Christian site who quotes Wesley at the top of the page. I think the text I bolded is particularly relevant. Look particularly at the last paragraph. This seems to be what is happening with you and Gadfly: you are confusing humanism and atheism. As the article states:
Almost all secularism is humanistic ... But not all humanism is secularism. Humanism can be sacral as well as secular.

Humanism in Scripture and Culture:[bless and do not curse] Recovering a Balance
(mods, where can there possibly be a "bless and do not curse" word in the title or web address?)

" The term humanism is not interchangeable with either secularism or atheism.

To avoid confusion, we need to nail down some basic meanings. Secularism is the "indifference to or rejection or exclusion of religion and religious considerations" (Webster’s). This, by definition, is what would stand opposed to Christianity. Atheism takes this a step further is maintaining "the disbelief in the existence of deity" (Webster’s). Secularism simply does not consider religion or God as a factor in human affairs, while atheism actively denies the existence of God, which would render religion irrelevant (this is slightly different from agnosticism, which holds that we cannot know whether there is a God or not). Although these two terms are of different degrees, in relation to the Christian Faith they mean virtually the same thing: a perspective that does not consider God to be of any concern for how people live their lives.

Humanism, however, in its basic meaning has nothing to say one way or the other about God or religion. Humanism is simply a concern with things human, especially with literature, the arts, and the humanities ("the branches of learning, as philosophy and language, that investigate human constructs and concerns as opposed to natural processes, as physics and chemistry," Webster’s). The emphasis here is "human concerns," which would certainly include religion, but also include a wide range of other endeavors that relate to human existence. In this context, even the study of Scripture and theology are humanistic endeavors, which is why Religion departments in universities often come under a division of humanities.

Humanism arose as a concern and a discipline largely as a reaction against the medieval period in which almost all the emphasis was on the supernatural, mostly in the form of magic and the demonic. (I find it interesting that many of the very people in modern Christianity who want to exclude any humanism, also tend to want a great deal of emphasis on the demonic)....

Humanism became a central principle of the Renaissance by the fourteenth century and helped foster the Enlightenment in Europe. In fact, it helped lay the foundation for the sixteenth century Reformation, as Luther began to see that people could themselves read and understand Scripture and think theologically apart from the divine authority of the church.

In this sense, a person can be a devoted Christian and be a humanist, as was Erasmus of Rotterdam (late fifteenth century), credited with being one of the first Christian humanists of the "modern" era. Among other things, Erasmus wanted to study the Greek text of the New Testament on the basis of the texts themselves apart from how the church said they ought to read. He was also a vocal opponent of tradition as truth. Erasmus represented a new concern with history and language that focused on the human dimension rather than trying to explain everything in terms of divine decree or by the authority of the church or prevailing political powers.

But even though humanism was a new intellectual movement in the fifteenth century, it was by no means a new perspective on how to view the world. There is a great deal of humanism in Scripture, for example in the Wisdom traditions of Proverbs, Song of Solomon, Job, and Ecclesiastes, as well as in some sections of the torah that deal with social relationships.

This is simply a metaphor to describe the essence of the theological theme of wisdom: "The reverence of God is the beginning of wisdom" (Prov 1:7). Since God is Creator, there is nothing that falls outside of God’s domain.

Therefore, a concern with things human, such as literature and poetry, the socialization of children, public manners, propriety and prudence in conduct, the training of public leaders, even human sexuality and family relationships, were important aspects of living in God’s world. Wisdom does not address the human condition from the divine perspective but rather from the perspective of human needs and concerns. It gives expression to the way things are, not how they should be. It is descriptive not prescriptive. Wisdom grapples with understanding the world, and is concerned with choosing the proper course of action for well being in life ("the two ways," cf. Psa 1).

From this perspective, Wisdom is humanistic, but it a sacred or sacral humanism in which every aspect of wisdom thought is undergirded with the fundamental assumption that we live in God’s world, under God’s order, and toward God’s purposes. A modern expression of this, although in a little different direction, is the saying "all truth is God’s truth."

Now, as far as the relation between humanism and secularism and atheism, this is where the confusion occurs. Almost all secularism is humanistic; if one assumes there is no God or that he is irrelevant in the world, they are left with only humans as a focal point. But not all humanism is secularism. Humanism can be sacral as well as secular. It is not that humanism itself is bad; only that it can be perverted into a perspective that eliminates God."
 
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lucaspa

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lucaspa

Why did you start this thread? It seems like these threads are targeted specifically at Gadfly as though you are purposely trying to push at Gadfly's buttons.

I started the thread because I found some interesting information on humanism and Christianity. Yes, the impetus for doing the research came from Gadfly's posts, but I was pursuing the idea, not Gadfly. I had several questions:
Is the characterization of humanism accurate? Is humanism the "antichrist"? Do the verses about antichrist in John 1 refer to humanism? Does Christianity have a component that focusses on our fellow human beings, and can be considered "humanism" in the original sense?

So I went and did some research. Now, it does seem that the results are "pushing Gadfly's buttons". That is unfortunate. I am a firm believer, however, in looking for the truth and, if the truth is contradictory to your ideas, then change your ideas. It seems to me that Gadfly is referring to secular humanism. We'll see if he is willing to change his mind.

For the last few weeks it seems like the Wesley's Parish has primarily become a running argument between lucaspa and Gadfly.

I don't consider them an argument. I consider them a discussion. I'm sorry you consider them an argument and, thus, disturbing. I will do my best to make my posts calm and non-confrontational.

The Wesley's Parish was always a safe place that we could go and share thoughts with other friendly Methodist. Unfortunately day by day you guys are turning this forum into the General Theology forum.

Chris81, am I not still sharing thoughts with other friendly Methodists? For instance, Mr Dave and I are haveing a friendly discussion about what "liberal Christianity" is and whether Methodism is "liberal". Am I intruding on any of the social threads?

Would you like it better if we all never discussed Gadfly's ideas? That would be one way of dealing with them. Ignore them.
 
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Chris81

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I started the thread because I found some interesting information on humanism and Christianity. Yes, the impetus for doing the research came from Gadfly's posts, but I was pursuing the idea, not Gadfly. I had several questions:
Is the characterization of humanism accurate? Is humanism the "antichrist"? Do the verses about antichrist in John 1 refer to humanism? Does Christianity have a component that focusses on our fellow human beings, and can be considered "humanism" in the original sense?

So I went and did some research. Now, it does seem that the results are "pushing Gadfly's buttons". That is unfortunate. I am a firm believer, however, in looking for the truth and, if the truth is contradictory to your ideas, then change your ideas. It seems to me that Gadfly is referring to secular humanism. We'll see if he is willing to change his mind.



I don't consider them an argument. I consider them a discussion. I'm sorry you consider them an argument and, thus, disturbing. I will do my best to make my posts calm and non-confrontational.



Chris81, am I not still sharing thoughts with other friendly Methodists? For instance, Mr Dave and I are haveing a friendly discussion about what "liberal Christianity" is and whether Methodism is "liberal". Am I intruding on any of the social threads?

Would you like it better if we all never discussed Gadfly's ideas? That would be one way of dealing with them. Ignore them.

After reading my post, I now recognize that it was a bit of a call out thread and that was not appropriate. So I apologize. I am just a little bit worried that the conversation in the Wesley's Parish is getting a bit heated and confrontational in comparison to what we normally encounter on this forum. That is just my perspective, at some point I believe we should be able to find some common ground as we all share the same theological roots.
 
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GadFly

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Christian Humanism[/URL We begin with your summary. It is incorrect. Jesus did not teach man worked himself to Christ. Like all growths a Christian life began with birth, to Jesus it was a new birth of the Spirit and once born again, one bgan to mature and grow. There is no process to salvation in this sense because once saved today, your salvation is secured if you die tomorrow, with or without a process. Righteousness is not secured by a process for it is the gift of God in the deity of Christ.

The fact is that the individual has no value apart from Christ and neither do man's works. A believer does everything in Christ's name and power. The established church kept this information and the scriptures away from people. Enlightening and liberalism was a move away from the authority of the established church but it was not a major move away from God, although some did move into moe humanistic philosophies. Printing of the Bible and the individual's ability to interpret the scriptures led to Protestantism. It was not a humanistic movement. Today's liberal movement is a move away from the deity and authority of Christ. This is not an accusation. The liberals admit this fact with their tenants.

During the Middle Ages little attention was paid to humanism, but with the beginning of the Renaissance there was a revival of that perspective. Renaissance humanism was both an outlook and a method. It has been described as "man's discovery of himself and the world." The worth of earthly existence for its own sake was accepted, and the otherworldliness of medieval Christianity was disparaged. Humanists believed that the pursuit of secular life was not only proper but even meritorious.
Yes, there were humanist philosophers but the Christian reformers such as Calvin; were searching a better way to connect with God while here in the world. To think everybody was a humanist is folly.

During the Middle Ages, people were not hidden from enlightment
Closely allied to the new view of worldly life was a devotion to nature and its beauty as part of a broadened religious outlook. Yet Renaissance humanism must be viewed from another vantage point. Those involved in the movement were devoted to the studia humanitatis, or the liberal arts, including history, literary criticism, grammar, poetry, philology, and rhetoric. These subjects were taught from classical texts of the Greco - Roman period and were intended to help students understand and deal with other people. In addition, the humanists valued ancient artifacts and manuscripts and tried to revive classical life styles.
See, what you say is that humanist and liberal Christians' attention is turned to naturalism and other classical writings but the masses of people were concerned with the new interpretation of scriptures by the religious reformers.The masses did not have any more access to the arts than they did the Bible. Some intellectuals did follow humanism but the masses were left out of the arts.

Many Christians, including Savonarola and Zwingli, reacted against the more secular approach of humanism; but others such as John Colet, Thomas More, and Erasmus felt that great benefits would come from the revival of classicism and the development of historical criticism. It has been pointed out that even John Calvin reveals the influence of humanism. The new Renaissance philological tools were helpful in studying the Bible, and the ancient view of man held the promise for better government and greater social justice. A wedding of the ethical and social concern of the Renaissance with the introspective force of Christianity held the possibility for church renewal in the minds of many sixteenth century scholars. Christian humanist teaching was kept alive by many Anglicans, by the moderates in the Church of Scotland, by certain German pietists, and through the philosophy of Kant. It continues in the twentieth century among such writers as Jacques Maritain and Hans Kung.
You do misjudge Calvin's position. He would never say he was a humanist although he was a liberal in the sense that he moved away from the Catholic Church. He was not a liberal in the sense he moved away from the teachings of the Bible.
Those who believe that the Christian revelation has a humanistic emphasis point to the fact that man was made in the image of God, that Jesus Christ became man through the incarnation, and that the worth of the individual is a consistent theme in the teaching of Jesus. Indeed, when asked to give a summary of the life that pleases God, Christ advised his listeners to "love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind" and to "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matt. 22:37, 39). (note use of scripture)
Christians do keep the great commandments but they begin their love with God and the new birth which enables Christians to love their neighbors. Note that you do not emphasize the love of God first as Christ did.

Christian humanists acknowledge the contributions of other forms of humanism, such as the classical variety that discovered the value of human liberty, and the Marxists, who realize that man has been estranged from the good life because he is dispossessed of property and subordinated to material and economic forces. However, they caution that these other forms can degenerate into excessive individualism or savage collectivism because they operate without God. The Christian humanist values culture but confesses that man is fully developed only as he comes into a right relationship with Christ. When this happens, a person can begin to experience growth in all areas of life as the new creation of revelation (2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15).
"
[COLOR="rg[/QUOTE]b(152, 251, 152)
[SIZE="3"]]We do agree that humanist/liberal Christians admire other philosophies such as as Marxism and they do minimize the value of scriptures. Liberal Christianity is what we have been saying it was all along. It does allow culture to shape its liberalism but God did intend for Christianity to shape the world.
[/COLOR][/SIZE]
 
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