Christian Heavy Metal or Death Metal is not Christian.

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To an extent I agree. But not really. There are great christian metal songs. If they're truly christian however, the lyrics won't be bad or angry. Wolves at the gate - Father's Bargain for example. The tone is extreme anger in some situations, but the lyrics are strictly scriptural. It's all about the tone, and the message.

Yes, it is all about the tone. The beat. The sound one makes can be with evil intent. No music is like white static noise that is without emotion. Music without the lyrics can elicit an emotional response from you by the type of tone or beat that it makes. Some Christians like certain wrong musics they do because they are their old friends that are hard to give up. But Jesus calls believers to pick up their cross, and to deny themselves. Scripture says, "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12:2).


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Which says nothing about the morality or immorality of any genre of music.

Not true. Scripture says we are to put away anger and wrath. Yet, regular Heavy Metal and Death Metal promote aggression and or anger through the beat or tone of it's music (without the lyrics).

You said:
So you're switching your claim then? First it was death metal, now it's heavy metal?

I am referring to both. Death Metal is a subgenre of Heavy Metal according to Wikipedia.
Just do a Google search and you can find these films for yourself.
Although, I would encourage you not to do so because these types of musics are wrong.
But surely if you watched a lot of movies before, you should know what I am talking about.


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Sketcher

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Not true. Scripture says we are to put away anger and wrath. Yet, regular Heavy Metal and Death Metal promote aggression and or anger through the beat or tone of it's music (without the lyrics).
So that's Scripture talking about anger and wrath, not music. Swing and a miss.
I am referring to both. Death Metal is a subgenre of Heavy Metal according to Wikipedia.
Oh, I know what death metal is, and I know what heavy metal is. I don't know if you can know the difference without looking it up.
 
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Romans 12:21

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Semi-related video?


The speaker in minute 33 brings up great 8 biblical points that should lead a person to throw out Christian Heavy Metal and Death Metal. But what he is failing to mention is one key thing. Music has an emotional element to it. It is not a news flash that Heavy Metal and Death Metal are aggressive and angry in their tone.


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Devin P

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Yes, it is all about the tone. The beat. The sound one makes can be with evil intent. No music is like white static noise that is without emotion. Music without the lyrics can elicit an emotional response from you by the type of tone or beat that it makes. Some Christians like certain wrong musics they do because they are their old friends that are hard to give up. But Jesus calls believers to pick up their cross, and to deny themselves. Scripture says, "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12:2).


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We're called, to in all of our actions, glorify the Father. Paul was sent to the gentiles because of his gifts. Peter remained to preach amongst the jews, because of his gifts. Who are we to say that those called to christian metal, aren't called to such to have the Father - through their calling - save those lost in secular metal? Maybe, the music that you don't like, will catch someone's attention. Their lyrics and tones are giving glory to the Father and the Savior. That's not a bad thing. He told us to sing songs of praise, He did NOT once tell us what type of music to praise Him with. To say that Metal - even though it's giving praise to the Father - is unlawful, is a man-made tradition and not scriptural. I definitely think that some Christian metal can be softened up a bit, but we can't say that it's wrong.

As far as "music without the lyrics" well yeah, you can definitely take it out of context like that, but you can do that with anything. Eating meat itself isn't bad, but if you just see a video of someone killing the cow, of course it'll seem bad. But the finished product, (the music WITH lyrics, as it was intended to be heard) just as eating a cheese burger, isn't as bad, but almost anything is bad when taken out of context.
 
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So that's Scripture talking about anger and wrath, not music. Swing and a miss.

No, it is a homerun. if we are to put away anger and wrath then we shouldn't be listening to anything that is causing anger and wrath in it's beat or tone.

You said:
Oh, I know what death metal is, and I know what heavy metal is. I don't know if you can know the difference without looking it up.

Worldly music is not the focus of my life.
God and His Word is my focus.


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Symph

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I do not feel fear or aggression when I hear death metal, and our God is many things. You say that God is nothing but roses and kittens now and all that smiting of his enemies in the old testament is done for. Haven't you read revelations? Do you look around? The Lord STILL smites his enemies, he is still a mighty protector of his world, he commands the lightning! He destroys the wicked! He let's his enemies set themselves up to fail! WE are to love and forgive because WE are not God, but we can love GOD'S judgement and we can pray for him to make fools his enemies, and to show the world he is NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH.

And all of those qualities are right there in the death metal sound, it sounds like his awe inspiring mind crushing power is coming down full force on the evil he so hates. When I hear it I feel an inner strength rising up like a tornado, it makes me feel like I could take on anything!

I agree that all music has a real vibrational emotional quality that stirs the soul into something, but you have labeled an entire genre of music as if it is useless and to be thrown out. NOTHING is useless or to be thrown out when made for the Lord, God takes all things back for himself, and redeems the unredeemable. Cradle of Filth is one thing, I need a bath after I hear their music hahaha for real you don't even have to know what they're saying it just reeks of the demonic. But this song? This song is AWESOME!

What I feel when I hear it... is like these kids are pulling out the MOST passion they can muster, and GROANING to God from their depths. And these kid's musicianship is AMAZING. Oh and it makes me wanna punch babies, can't forget it makes me wanna punch babies! :tonguewink: HAHAHAHA No, it does not make me want to punch babies, it makes me wanna just, shake my head back and forth with a big goofy grin and be like "AWWWWWW YEAAAAAAH" And that's all I have to say about that! Peace out! *drops the mic*
 
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Sketcher

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if we are to put away anger and wrath then we shouldn't be listening to anything that is causing anger and wrath in it's beat or tone.
Assuming the music is actually doing that. Personally, I don't listen to music for the purpose of getting angry.

Worldly music is not the focus of my life.
God and His Word is my focus.
Then perhaps you shouldn't speak loudly about something that you admit isn't in your area of expertise.
 
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We're called, to in all of our actions, glorify the Father. Paul was sent to the gentiles because of his gifts. Peter remained to preach amongst the jews, because of his gifts. Who are we to say that those called to christian metal, aren't called to such to have the Father - through their calling - save those lost in secular metal? Maybe, the music that you don't like, will catch someone's attention. Their lyrics and tones are giving glory to the Father and the Savior. That's not a bad thing. He told us to sing songs of praise, He did NOT once tell us what type of music to praise Him with. To say that Metal - even though it's giving praise to the Father - is unlawful, is a man-made tradition and not scriptural. I definitely think that some Christian metal can be softened up a bit, but we can't say that it's wrong.

As far as "music without the lyrics" well yeah, you can definitely take it out of context like that, but you can do that with anything. Eating meat itself isn't bad, but if you just see a video of someone killing the cow, of course it'll seem bad. But the finished product, (the music WITH lyrics, as it was intended to be heard) just as eating a cheese burger, isn't as bad, but almost anything is bad when taken out of context.

That is like trying to cater to people who think the prosperity gospel is okay. Narrow is the way that leads to life and few be there that find it. 1 John 2:15-17 makes it clear that we are not to love the things in this world. Romans 12:2 says we are not to imitate the world in what it does. Scripture says for us to put away anger and wrath out of our lives. So there is no room for listening to music that would encourage these emotions by the aggresive and angry tones or beats that it makes.


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Devin P

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When Israel went to war, I guarantee they weren't playing Hillsong. (They obviously weren't playing death metal either) but they were playing songs that praised Yah, in the appropriate mood. The psalms of King David fit his moods, and his moods varied (depression, joy, anger, doubt, love, etc). We are allowed to be angry. We were to follow Yeshua in all of his ways, and He had righteous anger. He flipped over the table in the synagogue. We too can have righteous anger.
 
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Devin P

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That is like trying to cater to people who think the prosperity gospel is okay. Narrow is the way that leads to life and few be there that find it. 1 John 2:15-17 makes it clear that we are not to love the things in this world. Romans 12:2 says we are not to imitate the world in what it does. Scripture says for us to put away anger and wrath out of our lives. So there is no room for listening to music that would encourage these emotions by the aggresive and angry tones or beats that it makes.


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Not at all. The prosperity gospel is horrendous. But, I am living proof that the Father meets us where we're at. Metal Christian music doesn't always encourage anger, sometimes it inspires us into positive action (working out, doing manual labor, etc.) I understand what you mean though.
 
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Assuming the music is actually doing that. Personally, I don't listen to music for the purpose of getting angry.

It does not matter your reasons. Just listening to something that is angry and aggressive in tone is a violation of Scripture telling us to put away anger and wrath.

You said:
Then perhaps you shouldn't speak loudly about something that you admit isn't in your area of expertise.

I speak loudly from what Scripture says on this matter.
I also used to listen and enjoy Heavy Metal and I know what it is really about.
It is about loving the world and it is about pride, and aggression.
It is about a glorification of death and not life (which is obvious in the use of your own avatar).


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Not at all. The prosperity gospel is horrendous. But, I am living proof that the Father meets us where we're at. Metal Christian music doesn't always encourage anger, sometimes it inspires us into positive action (working out, doing manual labor, etc.) I understand what you mean though.

The beat and tone is angry and aggressive. Yet, the Bible says we are to put away anger and wrath.


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Sketcher

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It does not matter your reasons. Just listening to something that is angry and aggressive in tone is a violation of Scripture telling us to put away anger and wrath.
I know what makes me angry and I know what soothes me. Metal is not a stumbling block for me.
I speak loudly from what Scripture says on this matter.
I also used to listen and enjoy Heavy Metal and I know what it is really about.
It is about loving the world and it is about pride, and aggression.
It is about a glorification of death and not life (which is obvious in the use of your own avatar).
My avatar is a reference to Romans 12:1.
 
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Hall

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I think it's what is behind the intent of the spirit who created the music that can make it dangerous for another's spirit, too much of anything from the world isn't good for the soul. It doesn't only happen with Heavy metal or death metal, there are other genres of music containing hidden evil messages also.
 
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I do not feel fear or aggression when I hear death metal, and our God is many things.

You may not feel aggression when you listen to Death Metal, but others surely have.
Have you never seen punching in a mosh pit before?
Also, the seeds of aggression may not be noticable right away by you but they can sprout up later for you.
It is the basic law of reaping and sowing.

You said:
You say that God is nothing but roses and kittens now and all that smiting of his enemies in the old testament is done for.

I am saying God using His people to smite evil people is done for. I never said that God smiting His enemies is done for. But we are talking about God here and not man. So they are not the same thing.

You said:
Haven't you read revelations?

Actually it is Revelation (singular) and not Revelations (plural).
Oh, and yes, I have made an extensive chronology on the End Times including many verses from the book of Revelation (singular).

Pre-Trib Only - A Chronology of the End Times

So I am very familiar with the concept of God executing justice. But we are not God, though. There are things that God does that we are not allowed to do (or cannot do).

You said:
Do you look around? The Lord STILL smites his enemies, he is still a mighty protector of his world, he commands the lightning! He destroys the wicked! He let's his enemies set themselves up to fail! WE are to love and forgive because WE are not God, but we can love GOD'S judgement and we can pray for him to make fools his enemies, and to show the world he is NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH.

Nowhere are we told to imitate God's anger and to glorify that anger in our worship. Scripture says we are to put away anger and wrath. It is why you forgive others. For you cannot forgive others to well if you are also angry at them, too.

You said:
And all of those qualities are right there in the death metal sound, it sounds like his awe inspiring mind crushing power is coming down full force on the evil he so hates. When I hear it I feel an inner strength rising up like a tornado, it makes me feel like I could take on anything!

Like you... can do anything. No. That is not right. Music should not make you feel like you can do all things. It is only with God all things are possible. We can do all things through Christ which strengthens us. It is not by some kind of music that we glorify above God that gives us power.

You said:
I agree that all music has a real vibrational emotional quality that stirs the soul into something, but you have labeled an entire genre of music as if it is useless and to be thrown out.

Yes, because it promotes anger and aggression within it's beat and tone (without the lyrics). Scripture says we are to put away anger and wrath. Listening to music that promotes these things is contrary to that.

You said:
NOTHING is useless or to be thrown out when made for the Lord, God takes all things back for himself, and redeems the unredeemable. Cradle of Filth is one thing, I need a bath after I hear their music hahaha for real you don't even have to know what they're saying it just reeks of the demonic. But this song? This song is AWESOME!

I am glad that you admit that certain music sounds demonic. Many here will not want to admit that.
As for your music video. I put it on for like 2 seconds and shut it off. I cannot imagine what you consider as being demonic. That surely sounded demonic to me what you just showed me. Screaming non-sense like a monster? That is not right. You need to get away from this kind of music. It is wrong, my friend; And it does effect you in ways that you do not realize.

You said:
What I feel when I hear it... is like these kids are pulling out the MOST passion they can muster, and GROANING to God from their depths. And these kid's musicianship is AMAZING. Oh and it makes me wanna punch babies, can't forget it makes me wanna punch babies! :tonguewink: HAHAHAHA No, it does not make me want to punch babies, it makes me wanna just, shake my head back and forth with a big goofy grin and be like "AWWWWWW YEAAAAAAH" And that's all I have to say about that! Peace out! *drops the mic*

You want to shake your head back and forth and imitate the world in what it does? Why would you want to do that?

Romans 12:2 says we are not to imitate the world.


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I know what makes me angry and I know what soothes me. Metal is not a stumbling block for me.

Have you ever considered that the things that make you angry are merely the result of seeds sown from aggressive music like Death Metal?

For the law of sowing and reaping does not mean that the reaping happens right away after it is sown.
You said:
My avatar is a reference to Romans 12:1.

But the font looks like it is a glorification of death and not life that we have in Christ.
It looks like a shirt for a secular Heavy Metal band.
Romans 12:2 says we are not to imitate the world. So your avatar is an oxymoron.


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Hahaha I knew you'd have an answer for everything, just thought I'd take a crack at it. But hey you're entitled to believe what you want, sounds like it means a lot to you. Cheers.

Just think the next time you watch a movie, please consider that certain kinds of musics are used for particular scenes in a movie that seeks to elicit a particular emotional response. If Scripture does condemn the idea of us having anger and wrath (See Ephesians 4:31, Colossians 3:8), then surely listening to a tone of music that encourages such wrong emotions is not morally correct according to God's Word.


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tulc

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Not true. Read 1 John 2:15-17, Ephesians 4:31, Colossians 3:8.
Ok...none of those say anything about what music you can or can't listen too. :wave:



What things does "tulc" tend to like in doing?
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drinking coffee. :coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee:
tulc(likes posting on CF also) :)
 
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