Christian Forums Under New Management

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

This thing is incredibly long now, so ignore me if I say things that have already been said.

If nothing else, the positive things about the changes to foru.ms has been that out of control mods cannot dictate the outcome of anything. In the past, in the D&D forums, there were mods that had a personal axe to grind, and would censor people that thought differently. And since it seemed that only Conservative mods were allowed, guess who those people were.

There were two times this site changed. About a year and a half-ish ago, Erwin took a stand against those mods and either got rid of them or may it very clear that their actions would not be tolerated.

I certainly hope we don't revert back to the times before that.

We need some kind of system in the debate forums, where you don't only have CHristian Conservative moderators. Because, even Christians can be petty with an axe to grind, and in the past, it was overlooked because they were Christians.

Whatever you do with the site is fine, but for the D&D forum, I would highly reccomend a system like we have now, where reports are open, and it takes a majority of mods, from different backgrounds, to make a decision.

There was an internal problem with a lot of people on this site, which is why the changes were made in the first place, but it seems that some people are forgetting this.

 

[Andy Broadley]

Thank you, Lee! Praying for you and those working with you on this.

To everyone else, please remember: one of the fruits of the Spirit - PATIENCE!!!

Heed the scouser..she speaks wisely

Seriously, I agree with Karen. Lee needs time to work through all this stuff and our prayers to support him in this.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Agreed. And for those who don't like the idea of that, what is the problem?

Lee has paid a not inconsiderable sum for CF.

He has every right to say 'My site, my rules'

I don't know what he paid for this site, but I'm sure that he realizes that once he gets in a position where a site in production is worth so much, that it really isn't so much "my site, my rules".

I don't know how much this site makes off the ads, but considering what my site does, it's a lot, and at some point, we have to realize that this site is here for profit.

 

[Rebekka]

I hope the report threads will remain open, and that the no off-topic rule will not be taken too seriously. There's nothing more fun than some light off-topic friendliness. Mods, be wise in this. Don't over-police, please.

Rest of the changes are OK as far as I can see now.

 

[Andy Broadley]

I don't know what he paid for this site, but I'm sure that he realizes that once he gets in a position where a site in production is worth so much, that it really isn't so much "my site, my rules".

I don't know how much this site makes off the ads, but considering what my site does, it's a lot, and at some point, we have to realize that this site is here for profit.

I don't think Lee is gonna make a whole bunch of money out of all this.

Yes, he might turn a profit. he's invested his money and there's nothing wrong with seeing some return on that

But as cash cows go, this is not gonna be right up there...

 

[constance]

This thing is incredibly long now, so ignore me if I say things that have already been said.

If nothing else, the positive things about the changes to foru.ms has been that out of control mods cannot dictate the outcome of anything. In the past, in the D&D forums, there were mods that had a personal axe to grind, and would censor people that thought differently. And since it seemed that only Conservative mods were allowed, guess who those people were.

There were two times this site changed. About a year and a half-ish ago, Erwin took a stand against those mods and either got rid of them or may it very clear that their actions would not be tolerated.

I certainly hope we don't revert back to the times before that.

We need some kind of system in the debate forums, where you don't only have CHristian Conservative moderators. Because, even Christians can be petty with an axe to grind, and in the past, it was overlooked because they were Christians.

Whatever you do with the site is fine, but for the D&D forum, I would highly reccomend a system like we have now, where reports are open, and it takes a majority of mods, from different backgrounds, to make a decision.

There was an internal problem with a lot of people on this site, which is why the changes were made in the first place, but it seems that some people are forgetting this.

If you see inconsistency in moderation in the forums you frequent, build a case and send it to a member of the Reconciliation Team. This team will review the request, do more research, and individually/as a team advise MNPhysicist and me of any inconsistencies...which will then be addressed.

 

[Andy Broadley]

I hope the report threads will remain open, and that the no off-topic rule will not be taken too seriously. There's nothing more fun than some light off-topic friendliness. Mods, be wise in this. Don't over-police, please.

Rest of the changes are OK as far as I can see now.

Be a heck of a rule to try and enforce.

In all my time here I've yet to see a thread stay ON topic for more than a day

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

I don't think Lee is gonna make a whole bunch of money out of all this.

Yes, he might turn a profit. he's invested his money and there's nothing wrong with seeing some return on that

But as cash cows go, this is not gonna be right up there...

I have no problem if he is trying to turn a profit. I think that's awesome, and actually says a lot about the site.

But, the foru.ms changes implemented by Erwin were specifically to make this site profitable. The domain name alone cost a pretty penny... entirely too much for a site that didn't have plans of going all web 2.0.

I have no idea about the inner workings of this site.

I would say, though, don't underestimate the amount of money a site makes running google ads, especially a site with as many visitors as this one has.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

...we have to realize that this site is here for profit.

Forgive me snipping your post but I wanted to address ^ bit.

No, see, this site is here for God. This site should only ever be about glorifying Him. Profit is inconsequential.

 

[KarrieTex]

I have to second that Green.

You beat me to it.

 

[Andy Broadley]

I have no problem if he is trying to turn a profit. I think that's awesome, and actually says a lot about the site.

But, the foru.ms changes implemented by Erwin were specifically to make this site profitable. The domain name alone cost a pretty penny... entirely too much for a site that didn't have plans of going all web 2.0.

I have no idea about the inner workings of this site.

I would say, though, don't underestimate the amount of money a site makes running google ads, especially a site with as many visitors as this one has.

Like you I don't know the inner workings of the site of how it relates to income, but I do think that one of Erwins primary reasons for creating Foru.mess back in July was to make it sellable.

I think Lee is gonna bring something back to CF that has been missing for a while.

Common sense

 

[Rebekka]

I agree about that too - I LOVE that we're able to explain what our post is about - Not every post is a clear flame... many are 'debatable' and judgment calls.
I truly disliked being at the mercy of other people when I had no way of knowing what they were deliberating -- and no hand in explaining myself OR offering to fix the post to appease them.

and we SHOULD be allowed to EDIT our posts without continual infractions or strikes (not that I get many), but it's gotten ridiculous and that's why some great Christians were leaving PRIOR to 7/7/7 - they felt suppressed & censored with not being able to express much without getting continual notches against them.
Rules & violations crimped honest and deep debate very much.

I PRAY it doesn't turn into that again - there are good & [very] bad things about this system and good & bad things about the other.

I don't know if I can handle the violations/reports issue going back to what it was completely. It was terrible feeling so helpless.

I agree with this. This is why I want the report threads to remain open. The old system didn't seem fair when it came to defending yourself.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

If you see inconsistency in moderation in the forums you frequent, build a case and send it to a member of the Reconciliation Team. This team will review the request, do more research, and individually/as a team advise MNPhysicist and me of any inconsistencies...which will then be addressed.

That was one of the problems before (I'm not talking about before the foru.ms changes. I'm talking about before the mod-house cleaning... I think you know the one. I'm not quite sure how long ago it was, but it was a long while before the foru.ms changes). A mod would make a bad decision, you would appeal it, and no one wanted to overrule the mod. It was really just a flawed system. Now, most of those people are gone, and I have no idea, really, who you are, so I'm not saying that that is going to be the case, but I really just don't trust it.

And there was also different standards for CHristians and non-Christians.

Like I said, these things weren't a problem before the foru.ms change, as Erwin wiped it out long ago, but I definitely think that Lee needs to know about it.

 

[KarrieTex]

That was one of the problems before (I'm not talking about before the foru.ms changes. I'm talking about before the mod-house cleaning... I think you know the one. I'm not quite sure how long ago it was, but it was a long while before the foru.ms changes). A mod would make a bad decision, you would appeal it, and no one wanted to overrule the mod. It was really just a flawed system. Now, most of those people are gone, and I have no idea, really, who you are, so I'm not saying that that is going to be the case, but I really just don't trust it.

And there was also different standards for CHristians and non-Christians.

Like I said, these things weren't a problem before the foru.ms change, as Erwin wiped it out long ago, but I definitely think that Lee needs to know about it.

There should be different standards for Christians and non-Christians.

The standards are different. We Christians actually have a higher standard to live be and should be held to that standard.

However, we also need to remember that in the sections dealing with non-Christians they should not be held up to Godly standards.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

Forgive me snipping your post but I wanted to address ^ bit.

No, see, this site is here for God. This site should only ever be about glorifying Him. Profit is inconsequential.

I don't believe that that is the truth of what this site has become.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

There should be different standards for Christians and non-Christians.

The standards are different. We Christians actually have a higher standard to live be and should be held to that standard.

However, we also need to remember that in the sections dealing with non-Christians they should not be held up to Godly standards.

Yes, well, it didn't work that way. You weren't here for those times. I"m quite bitter about those times, because there was a lot of using mod powers to silence differing opinions, which is pretty bad, because this is as much my site as it is yours. I know a lot of people think that the point of this site is for glorifying God, but for a great many other people, this is one of the best debate sites on the internet, with a wide-range of beliefs to keep us interested, and I do think that that creates a sort of problem.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

I don't believe that that is the truth of what this site has become.

No, it really hasn't. But hopefully these changes will make Him the focus again.

But it isn't, and shouldn't be about money. Meep, it isn't even about us. Has to be about God.

 

[drstevej]

Yes, well, it didn't work that way. You weren't here for those times. I"m quite bitter about those times, because there was a lot of using mod powers to silence differing opinions, which is pretty bad, because this is as much my site as it is yours. I know a lot of people think that the point of this site is for glorifying God, but for a great many other people, this is one of the best debate sites on the internet, with a wide-range of beliefs to keep us interested, and I do think that that creates a sort of problem.

LeeD:

In order to make sure that we can make the forum a better place for everyone, I am going to:

1. Gather a small group of advisory members
2. Create private staff forums to discuss staff structure and policy going forward.
3. Return the site to a more inreach focus as contrasted with outreach. This will not affect access for non-Christians.

Words mean things!

 

[Davidnic]

Report-wise I would say close them.

Leave things open if we can eliminate the venom, the attacks and the general disrespect.

But all in all reports are not these big secret things. They function much the same as they used to except now people can anonymously attack others and create ill will in a different way.

I just don't see how open reports work on a site this size in a practical way. Does anyone know of a site this large that does open reports? Honest question there. This is a large site with debate areas and divisive issues being discussed. Is there any other site of that nature this size that uses open reports.

I am not saying what everyone does is right for everyone else. But usually if bunches of disconnected people do things the same way...it is because it works.

So unless the venom can be eliminated....or there are rules to prevent:

1. Abuse in report threads (toward the mod as well as the poster)
2. Filibuster of threads

I vote to close them. Really, it is not that there is anything to hide...just a practical issue of getting the work done. Appoint an oversight team to work with the Reconciliation team if there is a large faction that does not trust people. But it just seems that open reports do not work. Of course with better rules...that may make a difference.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

LeeD:



Words mean things!

Nowhere in any of my posts did I talk about access. I know it won't effect access for non-Christians, because a huge chunk of this site is non-Christians.

Mod practices is what I'm talking about, which have already been somewhat changed. I'm right, from the past actions of CHristian mods on this forum, to be fearful of Christian mods who have sole power and think they are superior to non-Christians, because they feel that this is their site and they have some sort of right to be.

Even with wikified rules, the rules on CF are so broad, that they can be interpreted any way. What happens, for example in the Politics forum (and I'm only talking about the D&D forums, because those are the only places I've ever visited) is that a liberal will make a point. A Conservative mod can not like this point, and find reason to censor the post. You appeal it up the chain, and no one wants to reverse it, because, yeah, well, it could be a violation. Maybe. We really can't tell, because the rules are so broad.

And then it stands.

An open report forum, where you need a majority of mods to sign off on an action, really helps with this situation.

And, really, I'm not sure what the negatives of that system are.