Christian Democrats?

[FireDragon76]

First the term "Christian Democrat" actually refers to set of parties in Europe, but I know what you mean.

Most of the Christians I know don't understand how there can be Christian Republicans, with the Republican party as it is now. That wasn't the case 20 years ago. From my point of view Democrats come closer to carrying out the ideals of Jesus and the prophets. The things that attract people to Republicans are not based on Jesus' teachings. However there are issues with both parties.

Many Christians in the US have a very naive view of the Bible and don't engage with higher criticism of the Bible and the historical study of Christianity.

Those people that do tend to either join or belong to mainline Protestant churches or they are liberal Catholics. The overall weight of scholarship out there simply doesn't line up with their vision of a "Supply Side Jesus". All evidence seems to be that the actual historical, human Jesus was a genuine radical figure, and it's difficult to square that with an intransigently conservative attitude towards life.

 

[Desk trauma]

Well I don't,.. but for starters the government has way too much power and it's showing with this whole entire Coronavirus thing. Sure there should be regulations but there are times when it goes too far like forcing people to wear masks outdoors nonetheless.

The tyranny started with requiring people wear pants. That clearly set the precedent that the state gets to demand we wear things.

 

[Desk trauma]

That is why I sort of invented the term "actionable proximity" unless there is a better term. It must be taken into account. The president can pardon, write execuIve orders and has major powerful influence on many issues that can change daily. While abortion is settled law. Why should abortion outweigh other issues when it way down on the list of doable, actionable issues?

It shouldn’t.

But abortion! has become a short circuit in political though in the US that gets people to vote in ways they otherwise wouldn’t.

I am pro-choice but have said often that I’m fine with Row going away just to kick this absurd house of cards over.

 

[hedrick]

It shouldn’t.

But abortion! has become a short circuit in political though in the US that gets people to vote in ways they otherwise wouldn’t.

I am pro-choice but have said often that I’m fine with Row going away just to kick this absurd house of cards over.

I’ve thought that myself at times. But without abortion it would be gay rights. Without that they’d invent some other issue.

 

[Desk trauma]

I’ve thought that myself at times. But without abortion it would be gay rights. Without that they’d invent some other issue.

I’m skeptical that it could have the same sway because whatever it is it will not be something that will allow people to shriek about babies being murdered.

 

[Speedwell]

I’m skeptical that it could have the same sway because whatever it is it will not be something that will allow people to shriek about babies being murdered.

That's why when it comes to practical suggestions about anti-abortion legislation all you hear is the crickets. They want abortion as an issue, not a solved problem.

 

[Andrewn]

One of the problems I find in discussions about abortion is the false dichotomy between abortion on demand in all stages and a fertilized egg (or an implanted egg) is already a human being.

Countries like Germany and France have guidelines for abortion and their abortion rates are a lot lower than the US and Canada.

The abortion rates of other nations include:

• United States: 19.6
• Hungary: 19.4
• China: 19.2
• New Zealand: 18.2
• France: 17.4
• Norway: 16.2
• Denmark: 15.2
• Australia: 14.2
• United Kingdom: 14.2
• Canada: 13.7
• Israel: 12.5
• Spain: 11.7
• Italy: 10.0
• Netherlands: 9.7
• Belgium: 9.2
• Japan: 9.2
• Portugal: 9.0
• Greece: 7.2
• Switzerland: 7.1
• Costa Rica: 6.9
• Germany: 6.1

 

[April_Rose]

The tyranny started with requiring people wear pants. That clearly set the precedent that the state gets to demand we wear things.

Lol unless you're talking about naturalist communities. XD

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Countries like Germany and France have guidelines for abortion and their abortion rates are a lot lower than the US and Canada.

What accounts for the lower rate?

 

[Desk trauma]

Lol unless you're talking about naturalist communities. XD

I’m talking about out in public. How can you abide the tyranny of mandatory pants?

 

[April_Rose]

I’m talking about out in public. How can you abide the tyranny of mandatory pants?

Oh come on do you really need to ask that question?

 

[Speedwell]

What accounts for the lower rate?

Comprehensive sex ed and contraceptive availability.

 

[Desk trauma]

Oh come on do you really need to ask that question?

Your post was the one that said the government regulating what was worn in public was giving the government too much power.

 

[April_Rose]

Your post was the one that said the government regulating what was worn in public was giving the government too much power.

Yeah but wearing pants and wearing a mask are two different things and I was very specific when I said they shouldn't be regulating the masks,.. at least on customers unless the individual bushiness says so. I think that it should be mandatory for workers because they should have to protect the people that they work for,.. and yes even though the customers should wear one in return out of common courtesy,.. how's it going to be enforced on everyone anyways? Not very many people want to be the mask police and they have better things to do anyways.

 

[Andrewn]

What accounts for the lower rate?

I'll quote the German guidelines include approval on in a limited period of the pregnancy and the most important feature is mandatory counseling:

"Abortion in Germany is illegal under Section 218 of the German criminal code but simultaneously decriminalized under Section 218a of the German criminal code called Exception to liability for abortion, in the first trimester upon condition of mandatory counseling, and is also permitted later in pregnancy in cases of medical necessity. In both cases, a waiting period of three days is required. The counseling, called Schwangerschaftskonfliktberatung ("pregnancy-conflict counseling"), must take place at a state-approved centre, which afterwards gives the applicant a Beratungsschein ("certificate of counseling")."

Abortion in Germany - Wikipedia

This is an example of approaching a difficult subject in an intelligent manner.

"Abortion in France is legal on demand up to 12 weeks after conception (14 weeks after the last menstrual period). Abortions at later stages of pregnancy are allowed if two physicians certify that the abortion will be done to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; a risk to the life of the pregnant woman; or that the child will suffer from a particularly severe illness recognized as incurable."

Abortion in France - Wikipedia

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I'll quote the German guidelines include approval on in a limited period of the pregnancy and the most important feature is mandatory counseling:

"Abortion in Germany is illegal under Section 218 of the German criminal code but simultaneously decriminalized under Section 218a of the German criminal code called Exception to liability for abortion, in the first trimester upon condition of mandatory counseling, and is also permitted later in pregnancy in cases of medical necessity. In both cases, a waiting period of three days is required. The counseling, called Schwangerschaftskonfliktberatung ("pregnancy-conflict counseling"), must take place at a state-approved centre, which afterwards gives the applicant a Beratungsschein ("certificate of counseling")."

Abortion in Germany - Wikipedia

This is an example of approaching a difficult subject in an intelligent manner.

"Abortion in France is legal on demand up to 12 weeks after conception (14 weeks after the last menstrual period). Abortions at later stages of pregnancy are allowed if two physicians certify that the abortion will be done to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; a risk to the life of the pregnant woman; or that the child will suffer from a particularly severe illness recognized as incurable."

Abortion in France - Wikipedia

In addition to Comprehensive sex ed and contraceptive availability, permissible early abortion seems a good compromise. And compromise is what we need.

 

[Kalevalatar]

In addition to Comprehensive sex ed and contraceptive availability, permissible early abortion seems a good compromise. And compromise is what we need.

Stalin outlawed abortion in a bid to increase birth rates. There was no education about the birds & bees, no contraception or family planning. Predictably, unsafe abortions escalated, every year thousands of women bled to death or died from infections, infant and maternal mortality rates soared, actual birth rate plummeted and number of "orphans" grew exponentially.

Then the pendulum swung to the opposite extreme: access to cheap abortion was prioritized, but still virtually without any access to proper sex-ed, contraception/quality contraception or family planning clinics. Abortion became Soviet Union's and later, Russia's choice of birth control method. 60% of women had never used contraceptives. Hospitals relied on good abortion numbers to meet their target. The average Russian woman has six to eight abortions in her lifetime. While there are those who have had none or had "just" one or two, there are those who have had -- have been forced to have, in the lack of proper birth control -- as many as twenty. Abortion is a medical procedure and therefore not risk-free. 70% of Russia's abortions lead to immediate or long-term health complications. Abortion increases infertility and the ability to conceive and have healthy wanted pregnancies later.

Clearly, the acceptable policy lies somewhere in the middle of these two extremes and includes easy, affordable access to sex-ed, family planning and contraception and with the notion that individuals themselves act responsibly and make good use of contraception rather than rely on the fingers crossed method with abortion as a backup plan of birth control, regardless whether abortion is available on demand or not.

 

[Sanoy]

Every time I turn on my favorite news channel I learn how much my party is the light of truth fighting for justice against the darkness of the other party. Isn't that why anyone is a republican or democrat?

 

[Albion]

Electing Trump will not make make abortion illegal.

Probably not, but he can and probably will succeed in restraining the practice in a number of different ways. And that's all to the good if not perfect.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Every time I turn on my favorite news channel I learn how much my party is the light of truth fighting for justice against the darkness of the other party. Isn't that why anyone is a republican or democrat?

Not me. I see goodness and problems in both.