Christian Counselor in UK Fired after Refusing to Give Sex Advice to Gay Couple

texastig

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"alleging"
Thanks,
TT

From the Telegraph.co.uk




So:


1: His FELLOW counselors complained.
2: He was reinstated on the proviso that he "…promise to abide by Relate’s equal opportunities policy…"
3: Following further complaints, however, he was told that he would face a disciplinary hearing because managers at Relate Avon no longer believed he intended to uphold the policy.
4: Following the disciplinary hearing he was sacked.


This is a straight forward case of someone not doing what he was hired to do and then complaining that he was discriminated against by being sacked for that.
 
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Zaac

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From the Telegraph.co.uk




So:


1: His FELLOW counselors complained.
2: He was reinstated on the proviso that he "…promise to abide by Relate’s equal opportunities policy…"
3: Following further complaints, however, he was told that he would face a disciplinary hearing because managers at Relate Avon no longer believed he intended to uphold the policy.
4: Following the disciplinary hearing he was sacked.


This is a straight forward case of someone not doing what he was hired to do and then complaining that he was discriminated against by being sacked for that.


Can you provide a link for the Telegraph quote? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Thanks in advance.:)
 
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KCKID

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I hope the fired guy feels great for facing persecution for the cause of our Lord :thumbsup:

What a typical example of 'Christian' dramatics. Both you and Zaac must attend the same drama class! This is NOT an example of being persecuted for the cause of our Lord. It's to do with a person CLEARLY not following the criteria of his employer. The Lord has nothing to do with it.

By the way, you appear to be an advocate of divorce/remarriage. If so, you might get THAT issue sorted out in your mind before you slam homosexuality and actually be taken seriously.
 
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KCKID

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Absolutely disgusting. :doh: Obviously the rights of the enemies of the LORD God are worth more than the rights of those who wish to uphold God's teachings.

What is this world coming to ?:confused:

You're dangerous, man. I don't believe for one second that you are a representative of Jesus and I call you out on that!
 
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Zaac

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Link

I had no trouble finding it. I typed in the address kiwimac gave and searched on McFarlane's name.

According to the article, they fired him because Following further complaints, however, he was told that he would face a disciplinary hearing because managers at Relate Avon no longer believed he intended to uphold the policy. He was dismissed and his appeal was rejected.

Further complaints from whom? This looks like wrongful termination. He didn't necessarily, according to this article, do anything else in violation of Relate policy. Management just no longer believed he would uphold their policy.

Tell them to call me. I'll gladly explain to these homosexuals that they are having sex issues because what they are engaging in is sin, and that the only solution is to stop committing the sin.

Treatment over and I met the terms of my agreement.:thumbsup:
 
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Zaac

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What a typical example of 'Christian' dramatics. Both you and Zaac must attend the same drama class! This is NOT an example of being persecuted for the cause of our Lord. It's to do with a person CLEARLY not following the criteria of his employer. The Lord has nothing to do with it.


Sure it does. Where in that article do you see proof that he didn't follow the criteria of his employer? They ASSUMED he would not. And that's what is given as the reason for dismissal.


But like I said, send them to me. They may not like what I have to say, but they can't say that I didn't advise them of how to fix their problem.:cool:
 
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D.W.Washburn

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Does anyone else think, that with Iraqi Christians fleeing Mosul to escape being killed on account of their faith, it is a little hyperbolic to call some guy getting fired for refusing to do his job, even on religious grounds, "persecution"...

...or, is it just me?


I'll bet it's not just me.
 
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OllieFranz

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According to the article, they fired him because Following further complaints, however, he was told that he would face a disciplinary hearing because managers at Relate Avon no longer believed he intended to uphold the policy. He was dismissed and his appeal was rejected.

Further complaints from whom? This looks like wrongful termination. He didn't necessarily, according to this article, do anything else in violation of Relate policy. Management just no longer believed he would uphold their policy.

Just like your complaint about the word "alleged" this complaint shows either an ignorance of the realpolitik that newspapers must operate in, or disingenuous to the point of outright deception.

Even when they win frivolous libel and slander lawsuits against them, the fight costs them so much time and money that they try to do what they can to avoid them to begin with, while still fulfilling their purpose of informing the public. Thus the frequent use of the adjective "alleged" when describing someone in an unflattering way. ("We're not making the claim, we are just reporting someone else's characterization.")

And the only thing reported as absolute fact are those things that both sides agree on (McFarland did refuse to counsel the gay couple; he was fired; and the reason that the company named for firing McFarland) or those things that they have first-hand evidence for. The statements that McFarland made and the actions that he undertook, or that he refused to undertake that resulted in his firing would have part of the disciplinary hearing. They are not quoted in the paper because the paper does not have a copy of the transcripts of the hearing.

Likewise, employers bend over backward to avoid frivolous lawsuits, and for the same reasons as the newspapers. McFarland was warned before his first firing. He was rehired while his appeal was pending, and he was not fired again until he had a full hearing. You can be certain that every step that the company took was documented and signed off on by McFarland as well as his managers.

One of the biggest employers in my area is a company that became famous for practical jokes (Whoopie cushions, fake vomit, etc) Over the years, tastes have changed and a lot of the gags that the company sells now are rather risque. Because "locker-room humor" in a mixed-gender business situation can be (and usually is) a symptom of a hostile work environment, when someone applies for a job with this company, the first thing they are asked to sign is a waiver declaring that they are aware of the risque material and understand that (especially in the Marketing and Merchandising (buyers) Departments) the locker-room atmosphere is a necessary part of the company culture.

That is why I can feel certain when I say I believe that McFarland took the job in the first place with the express purpose of forcing the company to fire him. He did so that he could get a settlement, and so that he could stir up the conservatives, to make sure the settlement was a lasrge one. McFarland is nothing more than a liar and a thief.

Tell them to call me. I'll gladly explain to these homosexuals that they are having sex issues because what they are engaging in is sin, and that the only solution is to stop committing the sin.

Treatment over and I met the terms of my agreement.:thumbsup:

Since you are neither qualified as a "psychosexual therapist," nor are you familiar with the terms of McFarland's contract, I assume you meant that as a joke. I assume, but I don't know, because jokes are usually funny.
 
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Sitswithamouse

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Does anyone else think, that with Iraqi Christians fleeing Mosul to escape being killed on account of their faith, it is a little hyperbolic to call some guy getting fired for refusing to do his job, even on religious grounds, "persecution"...

...or, is it just me?


I'll bet it's not just me.

Nope.
You are not alone in your thinking.

As to the OP,, the guy wasn't doing his job properly and deserved to be sacked.
 
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Jase

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Absolutely disgusting. :doh: Obviously the rights of the enemies of the LORD God are worth more than the rights of those who wish to uphold God's teachings.

What is this world coming to ?:confused:
The only disgusting thing is that fundamentalists like yourself actually pretend to stand for Christ while acting nothing like him. That is an enemy of God.
 
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Zaac

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Does anyone else think, that with Iraqi Christians fleeing Mosul to escape being killed on account of their faith, it is a little hyperbolic to call some guy getting fired for refusing to do his job, even on religious grounds, "persecution"...

...or, is it just me?


I'll bet it's not just me.


Been and have spoken with lots of those in Mosul. Persecution is persecution. So yes, it's just you and those like you who think there is a sliding scale that makes one persecution more of a persecution than the next.
 
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kiwimac

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Here is the bit about the further complaints.

Following further complaints, however, he was told that he would face a disciplinary hearing because managers at Relate Avon no longer believed he intended to uphold the policy. He was dismissed and his appeal was rejected.

The ONLY was this sentence makes sense in English is if the subject, the further complaints, are referenced against the earlier paragraph. So complaints from whom? His fellow counsellors.
 
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Zaac

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Since you are neither qualified as a "psychosexual therapist," nor are you familiar with the terms of McFarland's contract, I assume you meant that as a joke. I assume, but I don't know, because jokes are usually funny.

As you neither know me nor are in possession of my resume, you're not in a position to determine what I am qualified as. I might just surprise ya. ;)

And I meant it just as I said it. It wasn't intended to be funny so its a good thing you didn't laugh.

And as you also are not privy to the terms of his contract either, there's no just reason for you to say The statements that McFarland made and the actions that he undertook, or that he refused to undertake that resulted in his firing would have part of the disciplinary hearing. They are not quoted in the paper because the paper does not have a copy of the transcripts of the hearing.

You don't know what the paper has a copy of and why it's not quoted in the paper.

All you know is what everybody else knows: the paper says they fired him because Relate Avon no longer believed he intended to uphold the policy. That's a surmise.That's not a wrongdoing.
 
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Zaac

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Here is the bit about the further complaints.



The ONLY was this sentence makes sense in English is if the subject, the further complaints, are referenced against the earlier paragraph. So complaints from whom? His fellow counsellors.

Which all things considered,if they are the ones from whom the additional complaints came, should not have been grounds for dismissal.

Said counselors had already biasedly branded him as homophobic because he spoke out against counseling people to do such things because of the conflict with his religion.

So if they based their decision on this, it goes right back to religious discrimination because had he not expressed an issue about counseling them based upon religion, they would have had no basis to tag him as homophobic.

So again, if they based their decision on that bias, it is religious discrimination.
 
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texastig

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Which all things considered,if they are the ones from whom the additional complaints came, should not have been grounds for dismissal.

Said counselors had already biasedly branded him as homophobic because he spoke out against counseling people to do such things because of the conflict with his religion.

So if they based their decision on this, it goes right back to religious discrimination because had he not expressed an issue about counseling them based upon religion, they would have had no basis to tag him as homophobic.

So again, if they based their decision on that bias, it is religious discrimination.

Amen Zaac!!!
Thanks,
TexasTig
 
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D.W.Washburn

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Been and have spoken with lots of those in Mosul. Persecution is persecution. So yes, it's just you and those like you who think there is a sliding scale that makes one persecution more of a persecution than the next.

Sorry, Zaac, my irony meter is still registering off the scale.
 
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