Christian Authority

[GallagherM]

What about God working in your life and Him being the authority in a persons life. Allowing the LORD to show you his ways, and teach you his paths?

Take over people with Gods word?

That sounds like dominion or as a dictator…

Have you not read or heard the words of Paul in 2 Corinthians ?

But that does not mean we want to dominate you by telling you how to put your faith into practice. We want to work together with you so you will be full of joy, for it is by your own faith that you stand firm.

Why do you think it would be useful to have dominion over others opposed to not allow people to have freedom and their own subjective relationship with God themselves?

Are there times you can try to correct someone who may be in error ? Yes but gently; by the spirit not in dominant fashion; that is the opposite of God who is gentle, forgiving and loving.

Considering my view of Satan not sure what he has to do with anything; for he was cast in the lake of fire.

 

[GallagherM]

Anyone have any thoughts to these questions above?

It seems some desire scripture to be authority over God?

Why take away authority from God when He works on the hearts and minds of others?

It is because it leaves us (humans) with the power to use scripture as that of a weapon putting scripture to the neck of a person if they do no listen we feed them an ultimatum of scripture to tie them up and bound them to a chair?

Bondage it’s real and it’s not fun to place that type of burden on anyone…

Why can you just not simply let God by and through the Holy Spirit help a person out, than you to be in charge over them?

I believe in free will, and freedom of thoughts and opinions and also believe in truth as well and believe that God is the authority …

Not man or a church.

 

[GallagherM]

Seems all a Christian can do is live by example and when the opportunity comes they express their love for God and others and even give a testimony when it is the right time, or they can choose to go and teach the scriptures.

Whatever God made lead them to do.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Anyone have any thoughts to these questions above?

It seems some desire scripture to be authority over God?

Why take away authority from God when He works on the hearts and minds of others?

It is because it leaves us (humans) with the power to use scripture as that of a weapon putting scripture to the neck of a person if they do no listen we feed them an ultimatum of scripture to tie them up and bound them to a chair?

Bondage it’s real and it’s not fun to place that type of burden on anyone…

Why can you just not simply let God by and through the Holy Spirit help a person out, than you to be in charge over them?

I believe in free will, and freedom of thoughts and opinions and also believe in truth as well and believe that God is the authority …

Not man or a church.

So you do not fellowship at a local church with other believers ?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What are your thoughts on using the Bible as authority?

It only has authority if you submit to the authority of the people who are telling you it has authority.

Beyond that, you need to personally have authority from God supernaturally for the words in the bible to have any real authority like Jesus had.

 

[Albion]

It only has authority if you submit to the authority of the people who are telling you it has authority.

How do you figure? If anything is authoritative, it has that status for some reason that pertains to it alone, independent of what anyone else feels about it.

When it comes to the Bible, this is divine revelation that's been given to all mankind. Submitting to the authority of the people who tell you something or other about it has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the Bible.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

How do you figure? If anything is authoritative, it has that status for some reason that pertains to it alone, independent of what anyone else feels about it.

When it comes to the Bible, this is divine revelation that's been given to all mankind. Submitting to the authority of the people who tell you something or other about it has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the Bible.

I'm reading rhetoric, with no connection.

 

[com7fy8]

What about God working in your life and Him being the authority in a persons life. Allowing the LORD to show you his ways, and teach you his paths @com7fy8 ?

Take over people with Gods word?

That sounds like dominion or as a dictator…

As I offered, the way for Christ's leaders to rule is by example >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

Jesus gives you people He trusts. You trust Him; so you trust them.

We need more mature people to help us. This is why a leader needs to be qualified according to 1 Timothy 3:1-10.

 

[Clare73]

The scriptures have authority in so far as we are conformed to the image of Christ. That is, the bible has authority in so far as our use of it contributes to love of God and neighbor. If it doesn't do that for us,, it has no authority in relation to us.

If someone tells me it has authority, but they don't love God or neighbor, I know they don't know what they're talking about.

Do you really thing the authority of Scripture depends on our behavior?

 

[Clare73]

The question is. Does using the Bible give you a right to hold authority over others?

Sure wish you would have said that in the OP.

 

[public hermit]

Do you really thing the authority of Scripture depends on our behavior?

It's no different than saying no one can say Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit. Obviously, some might say Jesus is Lord, but if he isn't Lord of the one saying it the statement is vacuous. Likewise, someone can say the scriptures are authoritative, but if the purpose of the scriptures is not being fulfilled in them the assertion is vacuous.

We don't just get to say these things because we want to, they must be true for us, or we end up treating what is sacred as so much nothing.

 

[Clare73]

I do not believe in sola scriptura. Because to me that in itself is a man made doctrine; and if anything shouldn’t you take everything literally if that is the case of using that man-made doctrine?

Perhaps a review of Jesus' view of the Scriptures would be helpful.
My apologies to those who are familiar with the following.

Jesus believed the OT was the "word of God" in every detail (Matthew 15:6; Luke 5:1, Luke 11:28; John 10:35)
He believed that every jot and tittle of the Law (the OT word for the Scriptures) was the very truth of God, vested with the authority of God and backed by by power of God (Matthew 5:17-19).
To emphasize that the OT was the infallible (wholly trustworthy and reliable), inerrant (wholly true) word of God, Jesus used his regular formula for solemn assertion ("Truly, truly I say to you") when he stated "until heaven and earth disappear, not one tittle (smallest stroke of the writing pen) will by any means disappear from the Law" (Scriptures). (Matthew 5:18; Luke 16:17)

He treated arguments from Scripture as having clinching force. When he said, "It is written," that was final. There was no appeal against Scripture, for "the Scripture cannot be broken." (Matthew 4:4-10; John 10:35). God's Word holds good forever.
He constantly scolded the Jews for their ignorance and neglect of Scripture: "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures?" "Have you not read. . .?" "Go and learn what this means..."
(Mark 12:24; Matthew 12:3-5, Matthew 19:4, Matthew 21:16, Matthew 21:42, Matthew 9:13).

Likewise, Jesus himself submitted to the OT as the Word of God. He lived a life of obedience to Scripture (Luke 4:17-21; Matthew 8:16-17, Matthew 11:2-5),
and then he died in obedience to Scripture (Luke 18:31; Mark 8:31, Mark 9:31, Mark 10:33-34; Matthew 26:24; Luke 22:37; Matthew 26:53-56).
When he arose, he explained who he was by the Scriptures (Luke 24:44-47, Luke 24:25).
He presented himself to the Jews as the fulfiller of Scripture (John 5:39-40, John 5:46-47).

And in asserting to the Jews that the OT bore divine authoritative witness to him, Jesus thereby bore divine authoritative witness to it.
Belief in the authority and truth of the Scriptures was the foundation of Jesus' whole ministry.

And that included the historical accounts:
Sodom and Gomorrah (Matthew 10:15),
Jonah and the whale (Matthew 12:39-40),
creation account (as God's words, though they are the writer's words, Matthew 19:4-6),
murder of Abel (Matthew 23:35),
Noah and the flood (Matthew 24:37-39),
burning bush and call of Moses (Mark 12:26),
Elijah and the provision for the widow (Luke 4:25-26),
Elisha and Naaman, the Syrian leper (Luke 4:27),
Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt (Luke 17:31-33).
plague of snakes and brazen serpent (John 3:14),
manna from heaven in the desert for 40 years (John 6:31, John 6:49),
Abraham still alive (John 8:39-40).

According to Jesus, the Word of God written enjoys absolute authority.

I'm not hoping to improve on Jesus' view and, therefore, have made it my view also.

You should do the same.

 

[Clare73]

It's no different than saying no one can say Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit. Obviously, some might say Jesus is Lord, but if he isn't Lord of the one saying it the statement is vacuous. Likewise, someone can say the scriptures are authoritative, but if the purpose of the scriptures is not being fulfilled in them the assertion is vacuous.

We don't just get to say these things because we want to, they must be true for us, or we end up treating what is sacred as so much nothing.

Thanks.

But according to his clarification, I didn't understood what he was asking.

 

[Albion]

I'm reading rhetoric, with no connection.

Oh well, I tried.

It seems rudimentary to me that something is either authoritative or it is not. And if it is, the reason for that comes from its origin or its nature, not whether somebody or other agrees to respect its authority.

 

[GallagherM]

Thank you for all of your opinions, and suggestions.

If you asked me what my view was; would say this. The scriptures are there to learn from. Not dictate over others. God is the ultimate authority over the scriptures cause He did allow us to have them to read and ponder and question with Him as you go and learn about the scriptures.

To assume because you have a Bible in your hand that you have some given authority to dictate others lives; I would suggest you are mishandling the Bible itself.

When it comes to sola scriptura; do you really live every single thing the Bible has to say? Cause if you are going to live by scripture alone the sola scriptura would suggest you need to abide by every commandment; and all that is in there in the New Testament.

The only two commandments that been made know here are Love God and Love others; and that was what Jesus said, and to teach others what He had taught: which was Love God and Love others.

Thank you again for all your time and comments; was just curious what people thought and believed; hope you all have a good night. And May God be with you and your families.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Oh well, I tried.

It seems rudimentary to me that something is either authoritative or it is not. And if it is, the reason for that comes from its origin or its nature, not whether somebody or other agrees to respect its authority.

It's kind of like there are civil laws but if they are not enforced, then they're not authoritative.

In the same way, if people are using the bible to boss people around, and coincidentally the underlying principle is not related to the common thread of all Godly teachings --- then it's not authoritative, it's just a commandment of men, that uses scripture cut-outs like a collage or montage.

 

[Albion]

It's kind of like there are civil laws but if they are not enforced, then they're not authoritative.

I hear what you're saying, and people do talk that way. However, we were talking about something or other actually having authority, not whether people will abide by its authority or not.

If what you suggest happens (and it does), we'd say that they defied its authority, indicating that it has that authority but some people choose not to respect it.

In the same way, if people are using the bible to boss people around,...

Well, that's wrong to do. But it doesn't make the Bible itself be more or less authoritative. This is another case of humans doing what they want despite it being wrong to do.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I hear what you're saying, and people do talk that way. However, we were talking about something or other actually having authority, not whether people will abide by its authority or not.

If what you suggest happens (and it does), we'd say that they defied its authority, indicating that it has that authority but some people choose not to respect it.


Well, that's wrong to do. But it doesn't make the Bible itself be more or less authoritative. This is another case of humans doing what they want despite it being wrong to do.

That's consensus, I had a few other ideas come to me while reading your post.

It's like with God's authority, it doesn't matter if it's acknowledged in terms of it being authoritative, it just is. Jesus and the Apostles had similar spiritual authority over the creation, perhaps that aspect is missing? I also recall a passage when the people marveled that Jesus taught with authority and not like the teachers of the day.

Perhaps good to examine regarding Christian authority, and the bible.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

Hello you and welcome,

What are your thoughts on using the Bible as authority?

There are many people out there in the world today, even online that will take the Bible and use scriptures out of context and will act as thought it has some type of authority, why is that?

What purpose does the Bible have if it’s used to make demands and place people up under bondage, even to traditions of man?

Why not use the Bible and seek truth; rather than demand, asking there questions.

How, What, When,Where,And Why?

Rather than using the scripture as a demand of must do this, must do that as though it is a law book.

What use will it bring to a person who takes charge with a Bible in hand that makes demands? Manipulation, deception, false realities?

What other ways do you think the Bible can be used instead for the benefit of others, do you have any thoughts?

Is the Bible really holding any authority; or is the Bible actually more of a tool on how to live simply by the spirit and to grow that spiritual by growing in the knowledge of God and Christ, realize the word; growing; growing is more beneficial than hindering isn’t it?

Thoughts?

My thoughts are as follows:

Never is the Bible to be used to control people; that use smacks of a cult.
Always is the Bible to be used as it says in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, in which God shows us HIStory and teachings as guardrails for our best life possible.

The trouble is that people don't know or care how to interpret Scripture. We need to interpret the Bible on its own assumptions in context, not with our assumptions imposed on it with passages taken out of context to prove that we're right.

 

[Saint Steven]

Is the Bible really holding any authority; or is the Bible actually more of a tool on how to live simply by the spirit and to grow that spiritual by growing in the knowledge of God and Christ, realize the word; growing; growing is more beneficial than hindering isn’t it?

Good topic, thanks.
Reminds me of Peter Ens book: How the Bible Actually Works

How the Bible Actually Works (and how it doesn't)
Do you struggle with reading the Bible? Maybe you're ready to give up on the whole thing. Pete talks a bit about the expectations we can often bring to our reading of the Bible, and how adjusting them brings us to a new way of reading the Bible. When we stop reading as a rule book and instead appreciate its antiquity, diversity and ambiguity, it turns out to be good news after all.