Christ had nothing to with Christmas and its a pagan holiday?!? Nimrod related.

Rev Randy

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Many chuckles ;)

Ite missa est. Is the concluding phrase for the mass, it is from "missa" that we get the English word "mass".

The phrase means "The mass is ended".

Mind you, I am sure somebody will think that something fishy is going on and that somehow there is a reference to something pagan in those words :p
Gee, I read on the internet that it meant something more along the lines of this:

Twilight Zone intro. - YouTube


Bonjour.
 
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Eph4:26

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2. If the world loves the Christ-mass (Exodus 23:2), it hates the Jesus of the Bible (John 15:19).

2, that is about following people who do wrong, there is nothing inherently evil about celebrating Christmas
What is the most popular holiday in the world, ever?
Christmas!!

Exodus 23:2 - "You shall not follow the masses in doing evil, nor shall you testify in a dispute so as to turn aside after a multitude in order to pervert justice;

John 15:19 - "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world,
because of this the world hates you."
. . . the World also seems to make (the) argument that . . . Christmas . . is really about some long-forgotten pagan thingummybob that almost nobody ever heard of and absolutely nobody cares a straw for. Yeah, you and the World have that all sorted out,yessirreebob!
It is not the literal long-forgotten (insert cultural\epoch deity name) that is being worshiped. The ultimate pagan\secular deity being glorified is self.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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2. If the world loves the Christ-mass (Exodus 23:2), it hates the Jesus of the Bible (John 15:19).


What is the most popular holiday in the world, ever?
Christmas!!

Exodus 23:2 - "You shall not follow the masses in doing evil, nor shall you testify in a dispute so as to turn aside after a multitude in order to pervert justice;

John 15:19 - "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world,
because of this the world hates you."
It is not the literal long-forgotten (insert cultural\epoch deity name) that is being worshiped. The ultimate pagan\secular deity being glorified is self.

I believe that you are grasping at straws. How much more specific can it be than "Christ" mass? While there is an issue from our Christian POV with those who remove the "Christ" from Christmas; in the words of my Pastor from last Sunday's Sermon, "those who have removed the 'Mass' from Christmas" have separated the Gospel from it's celebration, watered it down, and cheapened grace.
 
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Eph4:26

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If I may follow up on your comment. I'm not trying to get you to put words in the mouth of your Pastor, so I'll ask you the question directly. What is the gospel? What is grace? When was the precedent set where the 'gospel and celebration' were connected?
 
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ViaCrucis

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[URL="http://biblia.com/books/NIV/Eph4.26" said:
Eph4:26[/URL];64124516]2. If the world loves the Christ-mass (Exodus 23:2), it hates the Jesus of the Bible (John 15:19).


What is the most popular holiday in the world, ever?
Christmas!!

Exodus 23:2 - "You shall not follow the masses in doing evil, nor shall you testify in a dispute so as to turn aside after a multitude in order to pervert justice;

John 15:19 - "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world,
because of this the world hates you."
It is not the literal long-forgotten (insert cultural\epoch deity name) that is being worshiped. The ultimate pagan\secular deity being glorified is self.

I've always enjoyed your bizarro logic Eph.

If the world loves water, then it hates the Jesus of the Bible.

If you bought an atheist a hamburger once, you hate the Jesus of the Bible.

Your relationship with your family is okay? Then God thinks you smell funny.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Rev Randy

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I've always enjoyed your bizarro logic Eph.

If the world loves water, then it hates the Jesus of the Bible.

If you bought an atheist a hamburger once, you hate the Jesus of the Bible.

Your relationship with your family is okay? Then God thinks you smell funny.

-CryptoLutheran

The term (not the name) Nimrod does kinda fit this thread.:doh:
you smell funny - YouTube
 
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Knee V

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Eph4:26

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ViaCrucis, I never tire of responding to the types of criticisms your are suggesting.

One more time, you are making a false equivalency argument. Unlike your hamburger, etc. examples, the Church has not sanctified them as holy objects.

The Bible is loaded from beginning to end with 'thou shall nots' regarding mixing Truth with a lie. One that comes to mind is Paul's writing to the church in Corinth -- a pagan city.

17 ". . . COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you.

The context of Paul's writing has as much import to our day and time as it did to those believers in the Church at Corinth. Let secular society have their 'Holiday'. Fellowshiping is not about holding hands with your secular sister and brother-in-law (in my case when I used to do Christmas) at the end of the year around the christmas tree and feasting on mom's turkey.
 
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MoreCoffee

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I never tire of responding to these types of criticisms.

One more time, you are making a false equivalency argument.

The Bible is loaded from beginning to end with 'thou shall nots' regarding mixing Truth with a lie. One that comes to mind is Paul's writing to the church in Corinth -- a pagan city.

17 ". . . COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you.

The context of Paul's writing has as much import to our day and time as it did to those believers in the Church at Corinth. Let secular society have their 'Holiday'. Fellowshiping is not about holding hands with your secular sister and brother-in-law (in my case when I used to do Christmas) at the end of the year around the christmas tree and feasting on mom's turkey.

I promise to eschew all anti-christmas posts because God - through saint Paul - wrote
Do not be mismated with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Be'lial? Or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will live in them and move among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore come out from them, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch nothing unclean; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty." (2 Corinthians 6:14-18).​
And the faithful are therein called to separate themselves from the idolatry of paganism and the fear of pagan notions - such as unholy days and such like things.

Thus, to a Christian, all things are clean and one need not live in fear of a day simply because somebody in some place at some time accounted that day as a special day in their pagan religion.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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If I may follow up on your comment. I'm not trying to get you to put words in the mouth of your Pastor, so I'll ask you the question directly. What is the gospel? What is grace? When was the precedent set where the 'gospel and celebration' were connected?

No problem, I appreciate criticism and questions.

The Gospel is simply put "Good News"; the OT was the Law, which looked forward to the Gospel; the Gospel is God's response (a life boat) for us who are drowning in the law, in sin. The Gospel is Christ, the Messiah, and everything and all things about Him and what He has done both for and with us.

Grace is undeserved love; it is the Grace of Almighty God whereby He begat Christ of the Virgin Mary, and He became Man and God with us at the same time.

While Grace is freely given by God, it is only through the Holy Spirit that we can receive this Grace, and benefit from the Gospel.

Since Christ gave us, and commands us to celebrate Eucharist in all of the Gospels, it is part of the Gospel. Those who despise the Eucharist (the celebration of which is called the Mass), remove the Mass from Christmas; and since the Gospel is an all or nothing thing, they have removed the Gospel from Christmas, in effect taking Christ out too.

Not my Pastors words, but my own.
 
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MoreCoffee

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MoreCoffee . . . when I study the body of Paul's letters in their entirety, I've come to the conclusion that if alive today, he would not be celebrating Christmas.

It is so deceivingly easy to speak on behalf of those who are no longer on Earth to speak for themselves. So let us stick with what saint Paul has said in his writings and not put our own words into his mouth.

Saint John explicitly states:
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. In this is love perfected with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love. (1 John 4:15-18)​

Saint Paul explicitly states:
What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification. When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But then what return did you get from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:15-23)​

Set free from sin and living in the love of God which casts out fear Christians are called to celebrate God's goodness and his graces every day. No day is impure and no celebration of the saving work of Christ in his incarnation, life, suffering, and death is wicked nor is the celebration of Christ's triumph over the grave and ascension to heaven. Finally, we are called to look for and anticipate the advent of Christ at the and of the ages when he shall sit in judgement of the whole world and give his blessing to those who serve God. Thus we need not fear the 25th of December nor ought we to religiously avoid celebrating Jesus first and second advents but rather we ought to celebrate these things in accordance with the Church's provisions for these holy days. Pagan gods are no gods at all and we need not fear their days or months or years.
 
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Rev Randy

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It is so deceivingly easy to speak on behalf of those who are no longer on Earth to speak for themselves. So let us stick with what saint Paul has said in his writings and not put our own words into his mouth.

Saint John explicitly states:
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. In this is love perfected with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love. (1 John 4:15-18)​

Saint Paul explicitly states:
What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification. When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But then what return did you get from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:15-23)​

Set free from sin and living in the love of God which casts out fear Christians are called to celebrate God's goodness and his graces every day. No day is impure and no celebration of the saving work of Christ in his incarnation, life, suffering, and death is wicked nor is the celebration of Christ's triumph over the grave and ascension to heaven. Finally, we are called to look for and anticipate the advent of Christ at the and of the ages when he shall sit in judgement of the whole world and give his blessing to those who serve God. Thus we need not fear the 25th of December nor ought we to religiously avoid celebrating Jesus first and second advents but rather we ought to celebrate these things in accordance with the Church's provisions for these holy days. Pagan gods are no gods at all and we need not fear their days or months or years.
:clap::clap::clap::clap:
 
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I promise to eschew all anti-christmas posts because God - through saint Paul - wrote
Do not be mismated with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Be'lial? Or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will live in them and move among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore come out from them, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch nothing unclean; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty." (2 Corinthians 6:14-18).
And the faithful are therein called to separate themselves from the idolatry of paganism and the fear of pagan notions - such as unholy days and such like things.

Thus, to a Christian, all things are clean and one need not live in fear of a day simply because somebody in some place at some time accounted that day as a special day in their pagan religion.

Yikes. Regardless of what one thinks about Christmas, that is pretzel logic.

Paul---we are the temple of God, therefore separate yourselves from what is unclean

MC/RC---we are the temple of God, therefore all things are clean and we don't need to separate ourselves. (this directly contradicts Paul's argument)
 
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Jipsah

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MoreCoffee . . . when I study the body of Paul's letters in their entirety, I've come to the conclusion that if alive today, he would not be celebrating Christmas.
Kinda went into that study with your mind already made up, didn't you? ;) I don't think you'd let old Brother Paul step on one of your sect's basic dogmas.
 
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Rev Randy

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MoreCoffee . . . when I study the body of Paul's letters in their entirety, I've come to the conclusion that if alive today, he would not be celebrating Christmas.
St. Paul is alive and he does celebrate Christmas. It's an everlasting life kinda thing.:doh:
 
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MoreCoffee

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MoreCoffee . . . when I study the body of Paul's letters in their entirety, I've come to the conclusion that if alive today, he would not be celebrating Christmas.

Kinda went into that study with your mind already made up, didn't you? ;) I don't think you'd let old Brother Paul step on one of your sect's basic dogmas.

St. Paul is alive and he does celebrate Christmas. It's an everlasting life kinda thing.:doh:

Maybe every day is Christmas day in heaven ;)
 
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I never tire of responding to these types of criticisms.

One more time, you are making a false equivalency argument.

The Bible is loaded from beginning to end with 'thou shall nots' regarding mixing Truth with a lie. One that comes to mind is Paul's writing to the church in Corinth -- a pagan city.

17 ". . . COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you.

The context of Paul's writing has as much import to our day and time as it did to those believers in the Church at Corinth. Let secular society have their 'Holiday'. Fellowshiping is not about holding hands with your secular sister and brother-in-law (in my case when I used to do Christmas) at the end of the year around the christmas tree and feasting on mom's turkey.

I promise to eschew all anti-christmas posts because God - through saint Paul - wrote
Do not be mismated with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Be'lial? Or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will live in them and move among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore come out from them, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch nothing unclean; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty." (2 Corinthians 6:14-18).​
And the faithful are therein called to separate themselves from the idolatry of paganism and the fear of pagan notions - such as unholy days and such like things.

Thus, to a Christian, all things are clean and one need not live in fear of a day simply because somebody in some place at some time accounted that day as a special day in their pagan religion.
Yikes. Regardless of what one thinks about Christmas, that is pretzel logic.
It's mainly quotes from the new testament. It isn't pretzel logic it is sacred scripture.
To the pure all things are pure, but to the corrupt and unbelieving nothing is pure; their very minds and consciences are corrupted. (Titus 1:15)

There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love. (1 John 4:18)

Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed. Let us, therefore, celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Corinthians 5:7-8)​
Paul---we are the temple of God, therefore separate yourselves from what is unclean

MC/RC---we are the temple of God, therefore all things are clean and we don't need to separate ourselves. (this directly contradicts Paul's argument)

Take courage, let the love of God in one's heart cast out fear of pagan deities and do away with fear of days. Celebrate Christ every day in one's heart.
 
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