"Christ did not make the atonement when he shed his blood upon the cross."

[Pavel Mosko]

This is part of the official Adventist teaching of the Atonement. Adventists have a two-stage atonement. That name sounds very academic and respectable, but it is very shocking if one ponders the implications based on general Christian givens and assumptions of Soteriology based on the typical views / theories coming from how the various Christian bodies have interpreted various passages regarding salvation. In general, I'm pretty sure everybody I know (Protestant, Orthodox, Catholic even Messianic Jewish) would agree that Christ paid for our sins on the cross, rather than just paying for the penalty of Sin from the Law and having to do a future work sometime later in the distant future at the end of the age when everybody has died, he can make his final atonement in the Heavenly Sanctuary.


Quotes lifted from Bible.query.org subsite on Adventism.

"Christ did not make the atonement when he shed his blood upon the cross. Let this fact be fixed forever in the mind."
Uriah Smith, 1877, (The Sanctuary and the Twenty-Three Hundred Days of Daniel VIII, 14, p. 276,)

......

"Ellen White herself declared in The Great Controversy that "before Christ's work for the redemption of men is completed, there is a work of atonement for the removal of sin from the sanctuary. This is the service which BEGAN when the 2300 days ended."

......

"He (Christ) was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement."
But 1 John 2:1 says, "...And if anyone sins, we have [present tense] an Advocate [intercessor] with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."NKJV



The previous quotes and citations were taken from anti-Adventist web site. The basic root Url is at Bible Query - Answers to Bible questions (the exact page has terminology etc. banned in the Terms of Service so I did not give a direct link to it).

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[d taylor]

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It is finished

 

[Freth]

What does scripture say?

Hebrews 8:1-2 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.​

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Daniel 8:13-14 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.​

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[BobRyan]

This is part of the official Adventist teaching of the Atonement. Adventists have a two-stage atonement. That name sounds very academic and respectable, but it is very shocking if one ponders the implications based on general Christian givens and assumptions of Soteriology based on the typical views / theories coming from how the various Christian bodies have interpreted various passages regarding salvation. In general, I'm pretty sure everybody I know (Protestant, Orthodox, Catholic even Messianic Jewish) would agree that Christ paid for our sins on the cross, rather than just paying for the penalty of Sin from the Law and having to do a future work sometime later in the distant future at the end of the age when everybody has died, he can make his final atonement in the Heavenly Sanctuary.


Quotes lifted from Bible.query.org subsite on Adventism.

"Christ did not make the atonement when he shed his blood upon the cross. Let this fact be fixed forever in the mind."
Uriah Smith, 1877, (The Sanctuary and the Twenty-Three Hundred Days of Daniel VIII, 14, p. 276,)

......

"Ellen White herself declared in The Great Controversy that "before Christ's work for the redemption of men is completed, there is a work of atonement for the removal of sin from the sanctuary. This is the service which BEGAN when the 2300 days ended."

This is what Adventist believed and still believe about the "Atoning Sacrifice" of Christ completed once for all at the cross.

1 John 2:2 NIV "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

Lev 16 "Day of Atonement" points out that the SIN OFFERING is slain - BEFORE the work for the Day of Atonement inside the sanctuary can begin.

Adventists affirm those two details even if some other groups skim past them.

Clearly "if you ignore enough details" then almost anything can be "suggested" as to what you want to suppose that Adventists believe

 

[BobRyan]

Since the OP purports to state Ellen White's statement on Christ's atoning sacrifice completed once for all at the cross --

I will add a few quotes in full agreement with Lev 16 where the sin offering is made BEFORE the work in the Sanctuary begins for the High Priest - on the Day of Atonement.
==========================

"When Christ expired on the cross, crying with a loud voice, “It is finished,” His work was completed. The way was laid open, the vail was rent in twain. Man could approach God without sacrificial offerings, without the service of earthly priests. Christ Himself was a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. Heaven was His home. He came to this world to reveal the Father. His work on the field of His humiliation and conflict was now done. He ascended up into the heavens, and is forever set down on the right hand of God. ST August 16, 1899, par. 1

"I want to lift up my voice for Jesus and say, Whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Go forth from the cave by faith. Look to Jesus, your helper. Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world. Look to your atoning Sacrifice lifted up upon the cross, the Innocent dying for the guilty. . . . {OHC 136.3}

"His offering of Himself was full and ample. Nothing was wanting. It was indeed a whole and ample atonement that was made. Then why . . . indicate by words and example that Christ has died for you in vain? After the exhibitions of love that was without a parallel, you say by your words of doubt and mournful discouragement, "He does not love me. He will not forgive me. My sins are of too hard a character to be cured by the blood of Jesus. The offering is not of sufficient value to pay the debt I owe for the rescue of my soul." {OHC 136.4}

"Thus from Christ cometh all our blessings. His death is an atoning sacrifice for our sins. He is the great Medium through whom we receive the mercy and favor of God. {OHC 83.5}

"Do you realize your sinfulness? Do you despise sin? Then remember that the righteousness of Christ is yours if you will grasp it. Can you not see what a strong foundation is placed beneath your feet when you accept Christ? God has accepted the offering of his Son as a complete atonement for the sins of the world. {YI September 20, 1900, par. 8}

=====================================


People that just want to take a - tiny snip drive-by - and post that as if it is the full accurate picture ... most often get it dead wrong.

 

[BobRyan]

The Bible has a broad scope for the concept of "Atonement" as we see in Lev 16 and it goes BEYOND the work of "sin offering slain" as the chapter points out.

But some Christians hold to a very narrow view of the term and how much of the Bible definition they will allow into their own view of it.

Therein is the problem with not fully understanding what the widest scope is for that doctrine according to the Bible.

 

[BobRyan]

But 1 John 2:1 says, "...And if anyone sins, we have [present tense] an Advocate [intercessor] with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."NKJV

Which is exactly what Adventist doctrine has taught all along.

But by ignoring a sufficient tonnage of detail - one could come to some other idea about what Adventists believe.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

This is what Adventist believed and still believe about the "Atoning Sacrifice" of Christ completed once for all at the cross.

1 John 2:2 NIV "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

Lev 16 "Day of Atonement" points out that the SIN OFFERING is slain - BEFORE the work for the Day of Atonement inside the sanctuary can begin.

Adventists affirm those two details even if some other groups skim past them.

Clearly "if you ignore enough details" then almost anything can be "suggested" as to what you want to suppose that Adventists believe

But isn't that the problem? You in your Adventist publications, and their graphic pictures got Christ dressed in the Aaronic priestly garb, when he is not an Aaronic priest but a priest in the order of Melchizedek!


The Aaronic priest was not without sin, making Christ into this is.... problematic at the very least, and most would see heretical implications besides all the other stuff you guys preach from "The Spirit of Prophesy", which I might add is much different than what any Christian body that believes in Continuism sees in the Ephesians and 1 Corinthians Charisms as spirituals or offices. (as a plain reading of the English text, or the received Greek).

 

[BobRyan]

"Jehovah did not deem the plan of salvation complete while it was invested only with His own love. He has placed at His altar an Advocate clothed with our nature, whose office it is to introduce us to God as His sons and daughters. Christ intercedes in behalf of all who receive Him. He gives to them power to become the sons of God. And the Father demonstrates His love for Christ by receiving and welcoming Christ's friends as His friends. He is satisfied with the atonement made. He is glorified by the mediation of His Son. We are accepted in the Beloved. ST August 13, 1902, par. 2
In Christ's name our petitions ascend to the Father. He intercedes in our behalf, and the Father lays open for our appropriation all the treasures of His grace. “Ask in My name,” Christ says. “I do not say that I will pray the Father for you; for the Father Himself loveth you, because you love Me. Make use of My name. This will give your prayers efficiency and power, the Father will give you the riches of His grace. Wherefore ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.” ST August 13, 1902, par. 3

"We must have a higher sense of the work and claims of God upon us than did the Pharisees. It is for our present and eternal interests to make friends with Jesus. We need him in every trial and perplexity of life. We should have living faith in him,—faith to trust him as a little child trusts its earthly parents. He invites us to come to him. Let us tell him all about our troubles and our sins, and he will know just what to do in our case. We have a great High Priest to whom we may come boldly; we have a Mediator in the heavens. “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus: who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.” 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 RH May 7, 1889, par. 5


" The highest angel in heaven had not the power to pay the ransom for one lost soul. Cherubim and seraphim have only the glory with which they are endowed by the Creator as his creatures, and the reconciliation of man to God could be accomplished only through a mediator who was equal with God, possessed of attributes that would dignify, and declare him worthy to treat with the Infinite God in man's behalf, and also represent God to a fallen world. Man's substitute and surety must have man's nature, a connection with the human family whom he was to represent, and, as God's ambassador, he must partake of the divine nature, have a connection with the Infinite, in order to manifest God to the world, and be a mediator between God and man. RH December 22, 1891, par. 1

"These qualifications were found alone in Christ. Clothing his divinity with humanity, he came to earth to be called the Son of man and the Son to God. He was the surety for man, the ambassador for God,—the surety for man to satisfy by his righteousness in man's behalf the demands of the law, and the representative of God to make manifest his character to a fallen race. RH December 22, 1891, par. 2

 

[BobRyan]

But isn't that the problem? You in your Adventist publications, and their graphic pictures got Christ dressed in the Aaronic priestly garb, when he is not an Aaronic priest

Your complaint is "how He is dressed in an artist's picture"???

Do you think Ellen White, or any of our theologians go around painting pictures of how He is dressed???

In Heb 7 that earthly priesthood is ended
In Heb 8 "if He were on Earth - He would not be a priest at all"

All that was a "shadow" of the reality of Christ's High Priestly ministry in heaven as the one Mediator between God and man.

God is the one that invented the Aaronic Priesthood (in fact God the Son is the one who invented it) - as a visual aid for humans to have a way to gain some understanding of His own work as our High priest. No SDA material claims that Christ is a Levite, or a descendant of Aaron or that He was appointed by any human to do his work. We do not teach that He is in heaven offering sheep or goats for our sins or anything along those lines.

We say the Sanctuary in heaven in Heb 8 - is real.
We say the court room judgment scene in Dan 7 is real
We say the angels in heaven in Dan 7 - are real.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Your complaint is "how He is dressed in an artist's picture"???

Do you think Ellen White, or any of our theologians go around painting pictures of how He is dressed???

In Heb 7 that earthly priesthood is ended
In Heb 8 "if He were on Earth - He would not be a priest at all"

All that was a "shadow" of the reality of Christ's High Priestly ministry in heaven as the one Mediator between God and man.

God is the one that invented the Aaronic Priesthood (in fact God the Son is the one who invented it) - as a visual aid for humans to have a way to gain some understanding of His own work as our High priest. No SDA material claims that Christ is a Levite, or a descendant of Aaron or that He was appointed by any human to do his work. We do not teach that He is in heaven offering sheep or goats for our sins or anything along those lines.

We say the Sanctuary in heaven in Heb 8 - is real.
We say the court room judgment scene in Dan 7 is real
We say the angels in heaven in Dan 7 - are real.

No, as one apologist says you guys got a different Christ. It isn't just how you picture him, but how you preach and teach on him too and that has significance!


1 john 4

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.



So, this one Apologist I started watching summarizes things this way, he does not agree with Adventist's when they call him "brother". He says, "We might be brothers in Adam but we are not brothers in Christ". He says this because:

1) Adventist's have a different Gospel

2) They got a different Christ.


PS - I suspect you will point out that you do indeed advocate that Christ did indeed come into the world in the incarnation, but this verse can be used beyond the Docetic heresy (concerning other verses related to the basic topic of people hijacking the Gospel message and subverting the identify of Christ).

 

[BobRyan]

a priest in the order of Melchizedek!

"When Christ expired on the cross, crying with a loud voice, “It is finished,” His work was completed. The way was laid open, the vail was rent in twain. Man could approach God without sacrificial offerings, without the service of earthly priests. Christ Himself was a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. Heaven was His home. He came to this world to reveal the Father. His work on the field of His humiliation and conflict was now done. He ascended up into the heavens, and is forever set down on the right hand of God. ST August 16, 1899, par. 1

"I want to lift up my voice for Jesus and say, Whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Go forth from the cave by faith. Look to Jesus, your helper. Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world. Look to your atoning Sacrifice lifted up upon the cross, the Innocent dying for the guilty. . . . {OHC 136.3}

"His offering of Himself was full and ample. Nothing was wanting. It was indeed a whole and ample atonement that was made. Then why . . . indicate by words and example that Christ has died for you in vain? After the exhibitions of love that was without a parallel, you say by your words of doubt and mournful discouragement, "He does not love me. He will not forgive me. My sins are of too hard a character to be cured by the blood of Jesus. The offering is not of sufficient value to pay the debt I owe for the rescue of my soul." {OHC 136.4}

"Thus from Christ cometh all our blessings. His death is an atoning sacrifice for our sins. He is the great Medium through whom we receive the mercy and favor of God. {OHC 83.5}

"Do you realize your sinfulness? Do you despise sin? Then remember that the righteousness of Christ is yours if you will grasp it. Can you not see what a strong foundation is placed beneath your feet when you accept Christ? God has accepted the offering of his Son as a complete atonement for the sins of the world. {YI September 20, 1900, par. 8}

=====================================


People that just want to take a - tiny snip drive-by - and post that as if it is the full accurate picture ... most often get it dead wrong.

Nice to see that we can agree on something after all.

 

[BobRyan]

No, as one apologist says you guys got a different Christ.

Well then I guess we can all see that "one apologist" is wrong.

They have free will - they can choose to be wrong on that point if they wish.

So, this one Apologist I started watching summarizes things this way, he does not agree with Adventist's when they call him "brother". He says, "We might be brothers in Adam but we are not brothers in Christ". He says this because:

1) Adventist's have a different Gospel

2) They got a different Christ.

No doubt we can find that "one something" exists out there who will say anything. I have never doubted it.

PS - I suspect you will point out that you do indeed advocate that Christ did indeed come into the world in the incarnation

Yeah that is because the best way to know what someone believes is to have them say what they beileve rather than listen to someone else falsely accuse them. That is one of the "lessons learned" from the dark ages - and hopefully everyone remembers. This point was also made in John 5 where Christ was facing a few false accusers of His own.

 

[Dah'veed]

This is part of the official Adventist teaching of the Atonement. Adventists have a two-stage atonement.

Tetelestai. It is finished!

“Behold, I make all things new.” Revelation 21:5-7

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, united with the Messiah, he is a new creation. 2 Cor 5:17

 

[BobRyan]

Tetelestai. It is finished!

“Behold, I make all things new.” Revelation 21:5-7

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, united with the Messiah, he is a new creation. 2 Cor 5:17

1 john 2:2 says the atoning sacrifice was completed at the cross. A lot of people ignore all the work of atonement God describes in Lev 16 that goes beyond the killing "of the sin offering" so they can only see the completed atoning sacrifice 1 John 2:2

 

[Dah'veed]

1 john 2:2 says the atoning sacrifice was completed at the cross. A lot of people ignore all the work of atonement God describes in Lev 16 that goes beyond the killing "of the sin offering" so they can only see the completed atoning sacrifice 1 John 2:2

On the contrary, the people who acknowledge the sufficiency of the cross do not neglect the weightier things, they come confidently before the throne. Heb 1:3, Heb 5:9

I have great High Priest
who made an end to all my sin
Behold Him there the risen Lamb
The great unchangeable I AM
One with Himself I cannot die
C L Bancroft

I believe the sister in Christ who wrote that hymn that brings it home was a preacher's daughter.

 

[BobRyan]

On the contrary, the people who acknowledge the sufficiency of the cross do not neglect the weightier things, they come confidently before the throne. Heb 1:3, Heb 5:9

I have great High Priest
who made an end to all my sin
Behold Him there the risen Lamb
The great unchangeable I AM
One with Himself I cannot die
C L Bancroft

If one is to claim that Christ's atonement includes His work as our High priest in Heaven (as God's Day of Atonement message in Lev 16 informs us) - then they know full well that this is what He is doing now and cannot claim that He has stopped doing it. Thus they cannot claim that this work of Christ is ended/completed/finished.

One could not on Friday claim Jesus has finished his work of Atoning sacrifice on the cross - while He was still doing it on that Friday afternoon

 

[Dah'veed]

If one is to claim that Christ's atonement includes His work as our High priest in Heaven (as God's Day of Atonement message in Lev 16 informs us) - then they know full well that this is what He is doing now and cannot claim that He has stopped doing it. Thus they cannot claim that this work of Christ is ended/completed/finished.

People are entitled to their opinion and make all sorts of claims, but the fact of the matter is that without atonement (faith) they don't have access to God's Spirit.

One could not on Friday claim Jesus has finished his work of Atoning sacrifice on the cross - while He was still doing it on that Friday afternoon

And of course there was a sabbath rest and on the first day the charade was over.

Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. John 20
You meet him who rejoices and does righteousness. Isa 64:5 Everyone who does righteousness is born of Him. 1 John 2:29

The Son of God appeared to destroy the devil’s work. 1 John 3:8

God delivered us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son He loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:12-15

 

[Mark Quayle]

But isn't that the problem? You in your Adventist publications, and their graphic pictures got Christ dressed in the Aaronic priestly garb, when he is not an Aaronic priest but a priest in the order of Melchizedek!


The Aaronic priest was not without sin, making Christ into this is.... problematic at the very least, and most would see heretical implications besides all the other stuff you guys preach from "The Spirit of Prophesy", which I might add is much different than what any Christian body that believes in Continuism sees in the Ephesians and 1 Corinthians Charisms as spirituals or offices. (as a plain reading of the English text, or the received Greek).

I keep hearing this denial then claim then denial of the claim, that Jesus and the Archangel Michael are one and the same, a created being, and not God Himself, just as Ellen White is said to have taught: not deity.

 

[Gr8Grace]

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It is finished

The right answer, right away.