CHOP zone terror

[tall73]

Only eyewitness testimonies at this point, indicating an exchange of fire, and one statement from the cops that had very limited information.

Which statement from the police? I saw a tweet, but neglected to screenshot it, that was from someone indicating the vehicle description for the earlier drive by shooting vehicle that went over the scanner was different than the vehicle the two were in. But I have not seen any recording of the scanner, nor did they provide the alternative vehicle description.

Video accounts on the ground prior to the final Jeep incident did reference "kids" driving and shooting.

One thing that is a little strange, the Jeep appeared to have its windows up which were then showing bullet holes passing through. This seems unusual if those in the Jeep were supposed to be returning fire during the final exchange.

If there were firearms they were removed immediately from the vehicle before the cameras got there from independent journalists.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

Which statement from the police?

Search Omari Salisbury on twitter. He filmed the whole thing.

I saw a tweet, but neglected to screenshot it, that was from someone indicating the vehicle description for the earlier drive by shooting vehicle that went over the scanner was different than the vehicle the two were in. But I have not seen any recording of the scanner, nor did they provide the alternative vehicle description.

Video accounts on the ground prior to the final Jeep incident did reference "kids" driving and shooting.

One thing that is a little strange, the Jeep appeared to have its windows up which were then showing bullet holes passing through. This seems unusual if those in the Jeep were supposed to be returning fire during the final exchange.

If there were firearms they were removed immediately from the vehicle before the cameras got there from independent journalists.

Police are saying the scene was "tampered with".

It's all very strange, and sad. I want everyone to walk away, and continue their fight elsewhere.

 

[tall73]

Search Omari Salisbury on twitter. He filmed the whole thing.



Police are saying the scene was "tampered with".

Ok, so you are referencing Best's statement. I thought you meant a statement indicating they were armed.

Yes, it was contaminated. I have watched Omari's and some other's streams from the time, and by the time they got there any guns were gone.

The windows being up though is troubling. I think a lot of folks are concerned the vehicle they hit was not the one shooting, though it did appear to be stolen, without plates, and ran through the barrier.

The comment by the person "oh you are not dead yet" and "do you want me to pistol whip you" doesn't do a lot of good for the perception of whoever hit the vehicle.

It's all very strange, and sad. I want everyone to walk away, and continue their fight elsewhere.

Yes, and it sounds like last I heard some are still digging in, especially right by the precinct. I am not sure how that will play out, but this scene was tragic.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

I think the CHOP/CHAZ is a tangible illustration of what the Democratic Party (if we can even call it that anymore) has done and is doing to the country. It shows how damaging their policies are it they are not put in check.

Actually, I thought it was a perfect example of gun rights lobbyists. After all, aren't CHOP simply a well-regulated militia protecting themselves from oppressive government?

 

[Ken-1122]

It did begin earlier than that. When cops started pepper spraying and flashbanging people. I don't doubt that the looting probably started around 4 or so, as that checks out with other accounts I've witnessed, but cops were assaulting people well before that.

So according to your source, everybody was just peacefully protesting, nobody was breaking any laws, nobody was doing anything violent, then for no reason the cops just started shooting and using flash banging on the innocent people? That Antifa had nothing to do with the police response? I doubt that is what happened but I have no way to prove you wrong.

You can stop right there. "Antifa" means anti-fascist. That's all it means. I'm antifa. So are you, I presume.

I’m not talking about the Antifa that fought the NAZI’s in Germany, I’m talking about those thugs in the US today who show up at various protests dressed in uniform (black clothing, black bandana covering the face, usually dark sunglasses or dark hoodie) and start riots behind the shield of peaceful protesters. Just because you are anti fascist does not mean you are antifa.

Any number is unacceptable, but these protests are about much more than just the number of unarmed civilians being killed. I think you know that. And I'm glad you agree that we should try to do something about it, I just hope you understand that means big changes. Not merely in how police work is done, but in reassessing the entire worldview that our criminal justice system is predicated on. Until that happens, you can absolutely bet on this continuing. And the further you radicalize people, the less you're allowed to act surprised when they do something...well, radical.

Changes are always being made. Every time a high profile killing causes riots (King, Gardner, Rice, Brown etc.) there have been sweeping changes in the police department, procedures, training, etc. There will be a lot of changes after this incident as well; but no matter how many changes are made, it will never prevent such an incident from ever happening again; and when it does happen again, the riots will continue.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I’m not talking about the Antifa that fought the NAZI’s in Germany, I’m talking about those thugs in the US today who show up at various protests dressed in uniform (black clothing, black bandana covering the face, usually dark sunglasses or dark hoodie) and start riots behind the shield of peaceful protesters.

At least some of those have been 'boogaloo boys'.

Just because you are anti fascist does not mean you are antifa.

Just because you are wearing black does not mean you are 'antifa'.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Their political affiliation or lack thereof really has no bearing on that question.

It must be a tremendous headache for the city leaders. But I think 'forcibly removing' them would lead to a bad outcome. Now that a lot of activist groups have become jaded, I think the city should help those groups dialogue with the people who are left and get them to 'self-deport', until there's not enough critical mass left and the city can move in relatively safely.

What are your thoughts about all the businesses who are being affected?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Mr Trump and the GOP is in charge. Not the democrats.

Not over state and local governments unless you are suggesting he sends the military to force the rule of law. Is that what you are suggesting?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Actually, I thought it was a perfect example of gun rights lobbyists. After all, aren't CHOP simply a well-regulated militia protecting themselves from oppressive government?

No. They are thugs who's parents didn't care about them enough to teach them respect. The "well-regulated militia is the National Guard.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

So according to your source,

Sources. Multiple. Some of whom know each other, some who don't.

everybody was just peacefully protesting, nobody was breaking any laws, nobody was doing anything violent, then for no reason the cops just started shooting and using flash banging on the innocent people?

I'm sure the cops thought they had a reason, but effectively, yes.

That Antifa had nothing to do with the police response?

Antifa means anti-fascist. I don't have any friends that aren't anti-fascist. So yes, they were there, protesting peacefully, and the police responded to that with violence.

I doubt that is what happened

I don't care.

I’m not talking about the Antifa that fought the NAZI’s in Germany, I’m talking about those thugs in the US today who show up at various protests dressed in uniform (black clothing, black bandana covering the face, usually dark sunglasses or dark hoodie) and start riots behind the shield of peaceful protesters.

No, you are talking about specific factions of antifa activists who engage in those kind of tactics. You are not talking about an encompassing organization called "Antifa", because no such thing exists outside the imagination of hack political commentators on Youtube and Reddit comment sections.

Stop consuming that stuff. It's conspiracy theory horse crap, and it's poisoning your mind.

Just because you are anti fascist does not mean you are antifa.

That is, in fact, literally what that means. You can either be affiliated with a particular group, or unaffiliated, but it means the same thing regardless. Just like you don't need to be affiliated with Greenpeace, for example, to identify as an environmentalist.

Changes are always being made. Every time a high profile killing causes riots (King, Gardner, Rice, Brown etc.) there have been sweeping changes in the police department, procedures, training, etc. There will be a lot of changes after this incident as well; but no matter how many changes are made, it will never prevent such an incident from ever happening again; and when it does happen again, the riots will continue.

You seem to be saying that unless a problem is solved to complete perfection, then working to alleviate it is a waste of time. As long as there is any police brutality, than any strides made against it are actually failures.

If that is what you're saying, then thank you for being the second person in this thread to prove the point I made earlier. And you're an atheist, so you're also proving my point that this worldview is not limited to religious people.

If that's not what you're saying, and all you're doing is pointing out that bad things will continue to happen, though we may mitigate them...then, yeah. Pretty obvious point. That's kind of just the human condition.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

What are your thoughts about all the businesses who are being affected?

ALL BUSINESSES MATTER.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

No. They are thugs who's parents didn't care about them enough to teach them respect. The "well-regulated militia is the National Guard.

Look you're probably right. Well, at least we've resolved that gun control laws can be enacted without infringing on ordinary citizen's rights, since 2A applies to the national guard, and not ordinary members of the public.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Look you're probably right. Well, at least we've resolved that gun control laws can be enacted without infringing on ordinary citizen's rights, since 2A applies to the national guard, and not ordinary members of the public.

Yes. That is why gun control laws laws like machine gun bans are constitutional.

 

[Sparagmos]

So according to your source, everybody was just peacefully protesting, nobody was breaking any laws, nobody was doing anything violent, then for no reason the cops just started shooting and using flash banging on the innocent people? That Antifa had nothing to do with the police response? I doubt that is what happened but I have no way to prove you wrong.

I also have friends who were there that day and just checked my phone to see if I am remembering correctly that the police violence started unusually early. At 2:49 PM one of them them texted me “teargas flashbangs and kettling already.” I’d post a screenshot but my response isn’t CF friendly. My friends weren’t participating in any property destruction or violence, they didn’t deserve to be teargassed and shot at.

Like @Eight Foot Manchild said, these protests cover really large areas and there are often multiple actions around the city. So all of our friends accounts are likely correct, they were just in different areas.

 

[Radagast]

2A applies to the national guard, and not ordinary members of the public

As I'm sure you know, Supreme Court decisions show that this is not true; 2A applies to "traditionally lawful" activities by the general public, such as hunting and self-protection.

 

[Ken-1122]

No, you are talking about specific factions of antifa activists who engage in those kind of tactics.

How is that different than what I said?

That is, in fact, literally what that means. You can either be affiliated with a particular group, or unaffiliated, but it means the same thing regardless. Just like you don't need to be affiliated with Greenpeace, for example, to identify as an environmentalist.

I’m talking about the people who show up at protests in uniform, occasionally spray paint Antifa graffiti on walls and wreck things. Whatever you want to call them is beside the point; my point is they started the rioting.

You seem to be saying that unless a problem is solved to complete perfection, then working to alleviate it is a waste of time.

No I’m not saying it’s a waste of time, of course they should always try to improve! I’m just saying no matter how much they improve, there will always be some cop who messes up and the riots till continue when this happens.

People are being shown a false message by the media and people are reacting to this false message. It kinda makes you wonder why such violence didn't result in the other Cities around Seattle that had protests. Do you really believe Seattle is the only city where police have been known to make mistakes? I don't think so.

 

[essentialsaltes]

What are your thoughts about all the businesses who are being affected?

It is probably a headache for them too?

 

[Ken-1122]

I mean if you expressly communicate to people that traditional peaceful public protest - picket lines and marches and sloganeering - will result in nothing at all being changed at the very best, and getting violently assaulted at worst, they will not throw up their hands and say "oh well, guess we'll just go home and decide to be happy with the status quo." No. They will find other means of getting your attention. That can manifest in any number of ways
.

When they were given the attention of the Mayor, what did they ask for? First they asked for a 50% reduction/defunding in the Police budget, but what was that 50% based on? Did they have any knowledge of the Police budget? Did they know what such a reduction would result in? No; they basically just pulled the number out of their a$$ and demanded the department be defunded like petulant children. Then they came back later demanding a complete dismantling of all law enforcement. At this point they should have been completely dismissed and ignored; but our democratic (no surprise here) mayor is still trying to negotiate with these children. IMO the problem is the mayor is actually taking them seriously and trying to negotiate with them, rather than realize what anarchists want will always be unreasonable.

 

[Larniavc]

Not over state and local governments unless you are suggesting he sends the military to force the rule of law. Is that what you are suggesting?

He has ultimate responsibility and held both houses for two years.

Unless you’re saying the office of the president is powerless.

 

[Radagast]

He has ultimate responsibility and held both houses for two years.

The President has no authority over state and local governments.