China won, USA lost

[lismore]

China has a very bad human rights record including the persecution of Christians, our brothers and sisters in the Faith. Take a look at the Barnabas Fund to see how our dear brethern in China are being tormented for the name of Jesus.

 

[Landon Caeli]

It doesn’t need ideologue.

It is a definition of self sufficient. If you need to trade something from others you are clearly not self sufficient.

Yeah, actually you pretty much can be.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Morning Consult poll conducted Oct. 26-30. The survey of 2,201 U.S. adults has a margin of error of 2 percentage points.

So you think that by your numbers some 270 million people in US would be ready to pay a lot more from their stuff that was made in US ?

But for some reason it only happens on polls and not in real world ?

Wonder why that might be.....

 

[Landon Caeli]

So you think that by your numbers some 270 million people in US would be ready to pay a lot more from their stuff that was made in US ?

But for some reason it only happens on polls and not in real world ?

Wonder why that might be.....

What I wonder is how anyone could be so staunchly opposed to even giving it a shot. Are you one of those who thinks it's "egoistic" to even contemplate boosting American production?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Also, I think it's interesting how the *only* people opposed to increased American production are non-Americans.

 

[Speedwell]

What I wonder is how anyone could be so staunchly opposed to even giving it a shot. Are you one of those who thinks it's "egoistic" to even contemplate boosting American production?

American production is being boosted. It took a hit in the "great recession" and again due to Covid but it's moving upwards again.

This is about more than cheap consumer goods, the kind of crap you buy at Walmart. Our manufactured exports alone are worth two and a half trillion per year.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

What I wonder is how anyone could be so staunchly opposed to even giving it a shot. Are you one of those who thinks it's "egoistic" to even contemplate boosting American production?

Not at all and with advancing robotics US can totally do it at some point. Of course in that moment of history it will no longer create that many jobs for people either.

I just find it laughable that you really think people are willing to pay lots of extra money for goods produced in US because they said so in a survey.

In economics you follow the money not the empty talk how people “would be inclined” to pay more to support domestic production.

If they actually did it then you would have way more companies in US already. You don’t.

People in surveys have rather more altruistic and patriotic views of themselves than when they are asked to shut up and just buy the US goods instead of talking about it.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Not at all and with advancing robotics US can totally do it at some point. Of course in that moment of history it will no longer create that many jobs for people either.

I just find it laughable that you really think people are willing to pay lots of extra money for goods produced in US because they said so in a survey.

In economics you follow the money not the empty talk how people “would be inclined” to pay more to support domestic production.

If they actually did it then you would have way more companies in US already. You don’t.

People in surveys have rather more altruistic and patriotic views of themselves than when they are asked to shut up and just buy the US goods instead of talking about it.

We did it in the 20th century with tariffs. We did it so well, we went from a basic agricultural economy to an industrial superpower, and we could do it again with the right leadership, which I think (hope) the GOP and Dems finally might understand.

But you know what bothers me most of all..? The pessimism and white flag waving of the typical European these days. People like Warner Herzog, who acts like his speculative knowledge is superior when he chimes in. This pessimistic kind of attitude, with it's reluctance to try, is a centuries old culture, that can't be plucked out of existence soon enough.
SpaceX Mars City: Werner Herzog issues a stark warning to Elon Musk

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

We did it in the 20th century with tariffs. We did it so good, we went from a basic agricultural economy to an industrial superpower,

Feel free to quote any study that says you made superpower because of tariffs.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

People like Warner Herzog

Who cares what some German film maker thinks ?

I am sure you have plenty of nuts in US that think Mars should only be used to grow space daffodils or something.

I would rather be more worried that Tesla can’t sell their cars in all of the states because lobbyists have bought the politicians because car sales industry can’t compete with Tesla.

Musk is a great visionary and I am sure most of the world that knows about him agrees.

Not many people have effected a global change like he has already done never mind what he accomplishes in the future.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Feel free to quote any study that says you made superpower because of tariffs.

It's called the American System

American System (economic plan) - Wikipedia

 

[Landon Caeli]

Our manufactured exports alone are worth two and a half trillion per year.

Yes, but why stop there? IMO, we should take it as far as we can.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

It's called the American System

US was hardly any kind of superpower in 1850s.

 

[Landon Caeli]

US was hardly any kind of superpower in 1850s.

The American System marks the beginning.

If you look up the use of tariffs in the United States, you'll find that they were used up until the 1940's, when a turn to global free-trade, as a form of encouragement for communist countries to become democratic, became a popular way to shape global politics. During the 50's, 60's and 70's, we gradually began to see larger, and larger portions of our manufacturing jobs taken overseas to communist countries such as China.

By the 1980's, the term "rust belt" was already a common phrase for what once had been a thriving industrial region in the Midwest.

 

[Andrewn]

Not at all and with advancing robotics US can totally do it at some point. Of course in that moment of history it will no longer create that many jobs for people either.

I just find it laughable that you really think people are willing to pay lots of extra money for goods produced in US because they said so in a survey.

In economics you follow the money not the empty talk how people “would be inclined” to pay more to support domestic production.

If they actually did it then you would have way more companies in US already. You don’t.

People in surveys have rather more altruistic and patriotic views of themselves than when they are asked to shut up and just buy the US goods instead of talking about it.

Would you agree that the West gave low-income manufacturing jobs to Asians while concentrating high-income technology and financing jobs, here. This way, we didn't lose at all but rather got them to work for us.

But of course, Asia is now getting into technology and financing and this is the real problem with something like the trade agreement that this thread is about (OP).

Although high-end manufacturing needs to continue in the West (like Biden advocates), Those who defend traditional manufacturing jobs in general are dinosaurs not aware of the ongoing 4th industrial revolution. They would like to return to a nostalgic past but find it too difficult to even read product labels before buying them.

 

[mindlight]

Would you agree that the West gave low-income manufacturing jobs to Asians while concentrating high-income technology and financing jobs, here. This way, we didn't lose at all but rather got them to work for us.

But of course, Asia is now getting into technology and financing and this is the real problem with something like the trade agreement that this thread is about (OP).

Although high-end manufacturing needs to continue in the West (like Biden advocates), Those who defend traditional manufacturing jobs in general are dinosaurs not aware of the ongoing 4th industrial revolution. They would like to return to a nostalgic past but find it too difficult to even read product labels before buying them.

There is a strategic weakness in outsourcing re: supply chains and key products, especially when an Inventory lite, just in time, business model is adopted. This is most evident during Pandemics. Also China is not playing by the rules. It takes the Western investment , steals all their secrets and then duplicates their processes making their investment redundant. Looking forward Western leaders do need to moderate the natural rhythms of the marketplace to counter interventions by Chinese and Indian state governments for instance. It already does this with the Environment to achieve its longer terms goals of conversion.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Would you agree that the West gave low-income manufacturing jobs to Asians while concentrating high-income technology and financing jobs, here. This way, we didn't lose at all but rather got them to work for us.

But of course, Asia is now getting into technology and financing and this is the real problem with something like the trade agreement that this thread is about (OP).

Although high-end manufacturing needs to continue in the West (like Biden advocates), Those who defend traditional manufacturing jobs in general are dinosaurs not aware of the ongoing 4th industrial revolution. They would like to return to a nostalgic past but find it too difficult to even read product labels before buying them.

I watched the following video out if curiosity:

What caught my attention was the use of eeg devices in the 4th industrial revolution, because according to the following cite, "the transformation will be unlike anything humankind has experienced before. We do not yet know just how it will unfold"... Interesting stuff!

The Fourth Industrial Revolution: what it means and how to respond

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Would you agree that the West gave low-income manufacturing jobs to Asians while concentrating high-income technology and financing jobs, here. This way, we didn't lose at all but rather got them to work for us.

I wouldn’t say they exactly gave them anything rather they were unable to compete on low tech manufacturing with nations that didn’t have any meaningful labor or environmental protection laws.

But sure in practice the West outsourced their junk to Asia then made a big point about how nasty polluters nation like China were.

Hypocrisy at it’s finest.

 

[helmut]

It's very simple. If there truly is a "rare-earth mineral" that the USA needs, we should import it... That was easy, eh?

So you rely on the countries that export it, and if there is virtually only one country (namely China) you rely on that country.

That was easy, eh?

 

[helmut]

Baloney. Who in their right mind is going to check the labels of all the products they buy to make sure it's made in the US..?

There have been boycott campaigns that changed the behavior of many consumers. A very successful campaign will indeed have the effect Jonathan described.