China hits back with tariffs on $60B in U.S. goods

[FreeinChrist]

And Trump thinks tariff wars are easy....

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/03/china-will-retaliate-with-tariffs-760862

China announced on Friday it would hit about $60 billion worth of U.S. exports with new tariffs in response to President Donald Trump’s decision this week to escalate potential trade penalties on Beijing.

China said it was taking the action “because the U.S. side has repeatedly escalated the situation despite the interests of both enterprises and consumers,” according to an informal translation from a China Ministry of Commerce statement. “China has to take necessary counter-measures to defend the country's dignity and the interests of the people, defend free trade and the multilateral system, and defend the common interests of all countries in the world.“.....

China’s Ministry of Finance said the tariffs on U.S. goods will be at rates of 5 percent, 10 percent, 20 percent and 25 percent and will target more than 5,200 individual types of U.S. exports to China. The lists were published on its website.


​

 

[DaisyDay]

Unnecessary trade wars - MAGA!

 

[Yekcidmij]

And Trump thinks tariff wars are easy....

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/03/china-will-retaliate-with-tariffs-760862

China announced on Friday it would hit about $60 billion worth of U.S. exports with new tariffs in response to President Donald Trump’s decision this week to escalate potential trade penalties on Beijing.

China said it was taking the action “because the U.S. side has repeatedly escalated the situation despite the interests of both enterprises and consumers,” according to an informal translation from a China Ministry of Commerce statement. “China has to take necessary counter-measures to defend the country's dignity and the interests of the people, defend free trade and the multilateral system, and defend the common interests of all countries in the world.“.....

China’s Ministry of Finance said the tariffs on U.S. goods will be at rates of 5 percent, 10 percent, 20 percent and 25 percent and will target more than 5,200 individual types of U.S. exports to China. The lists were published on its website.
​

They're only doing 60 billion because they can't match Trump's threat of 500 billion.

In any case, if the Yuan continues to depreciate it will make the tariffs completely ineffective (and probably to the point of being counterproductive). Already since earlier in the year, the dollar has gained about 7% against the Yuan.

 

[Yekcidmij]

One interesting outcome of all of this is that the Democrat Party is becoming the party of free trade:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...agreements-more-critical-of-tariff-increases/

 

[discipler7]

And Trump thinks tariff wars are easy....

The U.S. trade deficit with China was $375 billion in 2017. The trade deficit exists because U.S. exports to China were only $130 billion while imports from China were $506 billion.

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-china-trade-deficit-causes-effects-and-solutions-3306277
.
Wonder, who will have more to lose in this war.?

 

[LoAmmi]

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-china-trade-deficit-causes-effects-and-solutions-3306277
.
Wonder, who will have more to lose in this war.?

You should see the trade deficit I have with my local grocery store. They don't even buy a single thing I could offer!

 

[Yekcidmij]

https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-china-trade-deficit-causes-effects-and-solutions-3306277
.
Wonder, who will have more to lose in this war.?

US farmers, US downstream producers, Chinese exporters, US consumers, ...

Why would tariffs be desirable as long as the net negative effects were larger on China than the US? What about the US producers and consumers who are harmed?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

They're only doing 60 billion because they can't match Trump's threat of 500 billion.

Perhaps. Or perhaps China is just trying to show The President how silly and expensive a trade war can be without completely destroying the world economy.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Perhaps. Or perhaps China is just trying to show The President how silly and expensive a trade war can be without completely destroying the world economy.

I think they would like to go tit-for-tat if they could.

I also think that the tactic might work to force China to the bargaining table. A crude calculation seems simple. China's economy is export driven - if America drives up taxes on it's imports, it crimps demand for foreign products. So foreign prices and exchange rates will fall. I don't know that China can sustain economic contraction, capital flight, and significant currency depreciation. For that matter, the US may not be able to sustain rising prices, economic contraction and currency appreciation...

Of course, it could also backfire, especially in domestic politics, and cost the Republican Party. Many Americans do stand to lose from this nonsense even if the net negative effect is larger on China.

(btw, and for clarity, I'm not arguing in favor of tariffs - I'm decidedly against them)

 

[LivingWordUnity]

China has already been in a tariff war with the U.S., the only difference now is that the U.S. has started to fight back. All President Trump is asking for is fair trade. The recent U.S. tariffs on China would go away if China would do away with tariffs. President Trump wants everyone to end the practice of tariffs so that everyone is trading on a level playing field instead of the way it's been.

 

[KCfromNC]

China’s Ministry of Finance said the tariffs on U.S. goods will be at rates of 5 percent, 10 percent, 20 percent and 25 percent and will target more than 5,200 individual types of U.S. exports to China. The lists were published on its website.
​

Anyone want to go through and figure out which GOP-controlled congressional districts each type of export comes from?

 

[Yekcidmij]

President Trump wants everyone to end the practice of tariffs so that everyone is trading on a level playing field instead of the way it's been.

I'm just glad we finally have one man to tell every business which transactions they voluntary undertake are fair and unfair. If he could just set wages, prices and ration out goods and services we could be sure we get what's really fair.

[/tongue in cheek]

 

[Albion]

And Trump thinks tariff wars are easy....

I have not read or heard anything which indicates that he does think that tariff wars are easy. And the link to the Politico article doesn't include anything to that effect either.

 

[Yekcidmij]

China has already been in a tariff war with the U.S.,.

I disagree. If China has higher tariffs than the US, it's the US that benefits. We get stuff and they get our paper with President's faces on them. Sounds like a win for the US. I wish I could take some paper, draw my face on it and trade it for real stuff... but I doubt anyone would take it.

let me know if you would though...

 

[dqhall]

And Trump thinks tariff wars are easy....

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/03/china-will-retaliate-with-tariffs-760862

China announced on Friday it would hit about $60 billion worth of U.S. exports with new tariffs in response to President Donald Trump’s decision this week to escalate potential trade penalties on Beijing.

China said it was taking the action “because the U.S. side has repeatedly escalated the situation despite the interests of both enterprises and consumers,” according to an informal translation from a China Ministry of Commerce statement. “China has to take necessary counter-measures to defend the country's dignity and the interests of the people, defend free trade and the multilateral system, and defend the common interests of all countries in the world.“.....

China’s Ministry of Finance said the tariffs on U.S. goods will be at rates of 5 percent, 10 percent, 20 percent and 25 percent and will target more than 5,200 individual types of U.S. exports to China. The lists were published on its website.


​

Trump has been objecting to Chinese theft of US intellectual property, copyrights, patents, etc. I do not blame him for trying to stand up for US rights. I worry that tariffs will interfere with free market capitalism. Already Trump has to try to bail out farmers in danger of losing their farms and Europe gets soybeans for below the cost to grow them in some cases. Major supply chain disruptions are bound to be problematic and may hinder economic growth.

 

[Allandavid]

I have not read or heard anything which indicates that he does think that tariff wars are easy. And the link to the Politico article doesn't include anything to that effect either.

You don’t read enough then...

Trump doubles down: 'Trade wars are good, and easy to win'

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/02/trump-trade-wars-are-good-and-easy-to-win.html

 

[FreeinChrist]

I have not read or heard anything which indicates that he does think that tariff wars are easy. And the link to the Politico article doesn't include anything to that effect either.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/02/trump-trade-wars-are-good-and-easy-to-win.html

Trump: "Trade wars are good and easy to win" 10:15 AM ET Fri, 2 March 2018 | 00:56
Even if new tariffs on steel and aluminum spark an international trade war, President Donald Trump is confident the United States would come out on top.

"When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win," Trump tweeted Friday morning. "When we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, don't trade anymore – we win big. It's easy!"




Donald J. Trump

✔@realDonaldTrump
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/969525362580484098

When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, don’t trade anymore-we win big. It’s easy!

5:50 AM - Mar 2, 2018

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"trade wars are good, and easy to win." - Trump
His own words. It was all over the news.

 

[FreeinChrist]

http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/...t-appear-to-be-the-easy-wins-we-were-promised

 

[FreeinChrist]

Trump has been objecting to Chinese theft of US intellectual property, copyrights, patents, etc. I do not blame him for trying to stand up for US rights. I worry that tariffs will interfere with free market capitalism. Already Trump has to try to bail out farmers in danger of losing their farms and Europe gets soybeans for below the cost to grow them in some cases. Major supply chain disruptions are bound to be problematic and may hinder economic growth.

I have no problem with addressing intellectual theft and would support fighting that. The trade wars are not easy and will hurt a lot.

 

[Albion]

Donald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump

When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, don’t trade anymore-we win big. It’s easy!

5:50 AM - Mar 2, 2018​

Interesting. I'm not a twitter groupie, so I can see how I missed this. On the other hand, it may be that trade wars are easy to win, since he seems to have won his trade war with the EU in rapid fashion.