Children in the Rapture?

[JacksBratt]

Excellent question. If you read it all in context, Paul was giving the church of Thessalonica advise on what not to do. Basically they were being reprimanded by Paul. Once the church members heard about the coming rapture they were sorrowful because of their love ones who had already passed away. They thought their dead relatives would not be going to Heaven with them. Paul then changes his tone and gives them the following words to comfort them and relieve them of their worries.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 KJV - "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."
Those who are asleep are the dead relatives. Paul is saying not to mourn over them like the lost unbelieving people mourn over their dead.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 KJV - "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
If we believe in the Gospel and also those who are dead “in Jesus” God will bring the dead with him also.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 KJV - "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep." By the word of the Lord, the believers that are alive and waiting on God wont be raptured before those people who are dead in Christ.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 KJV - "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" The dead will go first.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 KJV - "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." Then the rest of us will be caught up with our dead “now resurrected” relatives in the air and be with God.

Well said.. great explanation.

 

[JacksBratt]

There are many interpretations on the restrainer.

Agreed, However, the Holy Spirit makes sense and I cannot think of any other entity mentioned in the bible that it could be indicating.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It is interesting to note that the word 'air' here:

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
17 After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.​

The word used in Greek means the air we breath, so it is not in heaven nor on earth but a place in-between, I would say a place that HaSatan can not get to us and that is reserved space as it were not accessable to the prince of the power of the air.

Also it doesn't say what the time period is of that time after the Lord descends. It doesn't say he comes to earth, nor does it say how much after that it will be.

Hello Lulav.
Interesting post and a word I believe is worth getting a closer look at.

The 1st time G109 is used is in Acts when Paul is defending himself and uses a very common phrase used thru out the OT and NT..."cast dust into the air/on heads"

[I just now created a thread on it for those interested.....]
Reve 16:17 the seventh Messenger pours out His bowl/vial into the AIR

Acts 22:
1 “Brethren and fathers, hear my defense before you now.”
23 And they crying out and casting up their garments and throwing dust into the air<109>,

Revelation 18:19 And they cast dust upon their heads and cried-out lamenting and mourning saying "Woe! Woe! the City, the Great, in which are-rich all those having ships in the sea out of her preciousness! that in one hour She was desolated.[#5522 Mark 6:11

Ephesians 2:2
in which once ye walk in according to the age of this world, according to the chief/ruler of the authority of the air<109>,
of the spirit the now in-working<1754> in the sons of the stubbornness

Last time use is at the pouring out of the 7th bowl

Revelation 16:17
and the seventh Messenger pours out His bowl/vial into the air<109> and came out great Voice from the Sanctuary of the heaven from the Throne saying "it has become!"<1096> (5754) [Revelation 21:6]

 

[DavidPT]

Why would it be total nonsense if it is pre trib.. but not if it's post?

Maybe you are right. Maybe they see any version of a rapture as nonsensical, even post trib. But even if that is the case, it's usually the pretrib version that attracts the most attention, which might not necessarily be a good thing if some are seeing these things Pretribbers are teaching as fantasy, etc.

 

[JacksBratt]

Maybe you are right. Maybe they see any version of a rapture as nonsensical, even post trib.

I would tend to agree... most non Christians are blind and this event would seem pretty far fetched, pre, mid or post trib...

But even if that is the case, it's usually the pretrib version that attracts the most attention,

Why do you say that?

which might not necessarily be a good thing if some are seeing these things Pretribbers are teaching as fantasy, etc.

So........teaching about something that is truth.. should be avoided because others see it as fantasy?

When have Christians ever stopped teaching truth just because others thought it was fantasy?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

JacksBratt said: ↑
I like the pre trib better.. You know, since Christ stated that He would never leave me or forsake me.. and the "one who restrains" is taken out of the world before the antichrist can take power.. so.. if I remain.. then I am forsaken...

There are many interpretations on the restrainer.

Hello Lulav. Yes there are.

Along with a number of threads on that topic [including one I started some years back]
[search for title "restrainer/restrains" on eschatology board]
Google search "restrainer christian forums"
About 230 results
(0.48 seconds)
https://www.google.com/search?q=res...XKwKHdhIA64QrQIoBDABegQIARAN&biw=1366&bih=626
====================
Who is the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians?

QUOTE="LittleLambofJesus, post: 65814992, member: 376868"]

2 Thess 2:5 Not ye are remembering that still being toward ye these-things I told ye?
6 And now the restraining/retaining/katecon <2722> (5723) ye have been aware into the to be un-covered/apo-kalufqhnai <601> (5683) him in the of *himself time.

Since this is a rather controversial verse among Christians today, I thought I would make a thread on it since this other one was closed for inactivity:

Who is the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians?

Originally Posted by DeirdreB
I have heard many theories as to who the restrainer is in 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7:
6 And now you know what is restraining/kat-econ <2722> (5723) him [from being revealed at this time]; it is so that he may be manifested (revealed) in his own [appointed] time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness (that hidden principle of rebellion against constituted authority) is already at work in the world, [but it is] restrained only until he who restrains is taken out of the way.
I am curious as who my fellow eschatologists think the restrainer is.
God Bless!

Ronald said: ↑
The Restrainer is the Holy Spirit, Who restrains evil. He will be removed and then all hell will break loose, unrestrained evil, where men follow their core inclinations. When the guidance and force of God is absent, what's left?

dfw69 said: ↑
The church is the restrainer

n2thelight said: ↑
Michael

============================
Ask not 'who is the restrainer'? but rather 'who is the restrained'?

2 Thessalonians 2:6-10

"And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time." People have puzzled over this phrase for so long... I have looked at the passage for years and zeroed in on "and you know". Paul's first century disciples had information which twenty-first century disciples puzzle over. I've asked myself many times, 'what did they know which we do not know"?

But what if we appraoch the question from another angle... Instead of asking 'what is the restrainer'? What if we ask WHO is the restrained?

Now we know the Antichrist will be a man, but what about this verse, "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction.", (Revelation 17:8)? Is it speaking of his other nature?

The following verses in Paul, say, "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way". In my other studies, I have come to the conclusion that "the mystery of lawlessness" is idiomatic for the ungodly acts of the Watchers with human women which resulted in the births of the offspring of the Wathcers.

Paul continues, "And then the lawless one will be revealed". In Enoch, the term "lawless ones" is applied to the Watcher's offspring.

Who is the one rising from the pit if not Azazel, who was imprisoned by none ohter than Michael. So, the restrainer is Michael and the one rising from the bottomless pit is Azazel who will commit the act of the mystery of lawlessness to give birth the lawless one.

Now back to Paul, "And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming".

But Revelation says of the Beast and the False Prophet, "And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur" (Revelation 19:20).

How is it the Antichrist can be "killed" by the breath of Jesus' mouth and thrown alive into Lake of Fire? Well, what happens when the offspring of Wathcers are killed? They become evil spirits. He will be killed physically and then thrown alive into the lake of fire.

There is an interesting parallel here... Remember in Enoch how Azazel was imprisoned in the Abyss 120 years before all the other Watchers were? Now we have a son of Azazel along with the False Prophet being in the lake of fire 1,000 years before all the rest.

Now more Paul to cap this off. "The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved".

I feel like I've just uncovered an artifact that was buried in the dust for centuries.

 

[eleos1954]

That verse must be taken in context

13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

AT that Time he was speaking to them. This was before he was made an Atonement, before he sprinkled his blood on the altar, before John 20:17.

There is mention of souls under the altar so this could be the holding place before the end. See the verses quoted below


It might be interesting for some to learn that today at sundown is that time mentioned above. It is the day called the day of blowing (the shofar, the trumpet) as well as the day of shouting.

It is called Rosh Hashanah or Yom Teruah. It is also the day for inaugurating Kings of Israel.



I don't believe this is only Christians that are there, but also those from pre-Messianic times who kept the word of God, and died for it. This includes the Jews of old as well as those during the intertestamental period like the Maccabees who preferred being slaughtered to conforming to the heathen ways. Also those from the Inquisition times and other times like that.


It is confirmed with that above, there are two distinct categories, the fellow servants (which I would guess would be both Christians and Jews and brethren which defines those who were under the throne previously.

There are many interpretations on the restrainer.

↑
1 Thessalonians 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17.After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
It might be interesting for some to learn that today at sundown is that time mentioned above. It is the day called the day of blowing (the shofar, the trumpet) as well as the day of shouting.

There are 115 passages in the Bible relative to trumpets. These passages show that there are three kinds, Human, Angelic, and Divine.

In this case, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 .... this is the divine trumpet of God.

So, although what you put forth might be interesting (human trumpets) the verse is referring to the trump of God (divine)

 

[DavidPT]

Why do you say that?

Maybe I should try putting it another way---it's Pretrib that gets the most coverage. Kind of like Trump, who out of all recent Presidents seems to get the most media coverage, thus attracts the most attention, but usually not in a good way though.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Lulav said: ↑
It might be interesting for some to learn that today at sundown is that time mentioned above. It is the day called the day of blowing (the shofar, the trumpet) as well as the day of shouting.

It is called Rosh Hashanah or Yom Teruah. It is also the day for inaugurating Kings of Israel.

Great info Lulav.......

There are 115 passages in the Bible relative to trumpets. These passages show that there are three kinds, Human, Angelic, and Divine.
In this case, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 .... this is the divine trumpet of God.
So, although what you put forth might be interesting (human trumpets) the verse is referring to the trump of God (divine)

Trumpets would make for a great discussion thread.........

The 7 TRUMPETS of REVELATION STUDY

Joshua 6 [7 Priests-7 trumpets-shofars] and Revelation [7 Messengers-7 trumpets]
========================
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
========================

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "a measure of grain/wheat a denari and three measures of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring"."

Revelation 8 Commentary- Plagued by Trumpets
The Roman Assault on Israel Began around the Feast of Trumpets Hence the Seven Trumpets of Revelation—Thus Began the Jewish War.

In A.D. 66 while Judea was aflame in bloodshed, riot and revolt, Rome responded by sending the 12th legion in addition to thousands of auxiliaries from neighboring kingdoms. These troops, as if orchestrated by God, arrived in Jerusalem in the Jewish month of Tishri, a month that begins with the Feast of Trumpets. Called the Day of Judgment, it is on this day that trumpets sound the somber days of atonement and final judgment (Leviticus 23:24, Numbers 29:1). Thus began the Jewish War.3
The A.D. 70 Doctrine View, Interpretation, Exposition and Commentary of Revelation 8: In Every Event that Fulfills the Seven Trumpets of Revelation an Audible Trumpet Sound Was Heard.
=============================
The Sound Of The Trumpet

The Apostle Paul used the Roman military trumpet as a metaphor for spiritual battle. First-century historian Josephus wrote that the Roman army did nothing, except by trumpet signals. He listed three specific trumpet sounds, all of which can be devotionally applied.

The first trumpet was a signal to prepare to depart. "Now when they are to go out of their camp, the trumpet gives a sound."(1) The Bible believer should be ready to depart swiftly for any field of conflict as ordered, always ready to fight the good fight of faith (1 Tim. 6:12; 2 Tim. 4:7).

The second trumpet was a signal to form up: "Then do the trumpets sound again, to order them to get ready for the march."(1) At this stage, a believer should have on the whole armor of God. The Lord wants skilled warriors, lined up with others, who will do battle against the wiles of the Devil (Eph. 6:11).

The third trumpet sound was the order to march: "Then do the trumpets give a sound a third time, that they are to go out."(1) Some have suggested that this is the equivalent of "the last trumpet" that Paul referred to in 1 Corinthians 15:52 concerning the Rapture of the church: Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed (1 Cor. 15:51-52).

This trumpet may also point to the personal resolve of a believer to march out to serve Christ, to stand against all challenges to God's kingdom, and to be willing to endure hardships like a good soldier (2 Tim. 2:3).
========================================

 

[DavidPT]

So........teaching about something that is truth.. should be avoided because others see it as fantasy?

When have Christians ever stopped teaching truth just because others thought it was fantasy?

Keep in mind, I am assuming these things via their perspectives. I'm not calling the rapture a fantasy. The rapture is not even nonsensical if one places it in the correct era of time. It only becomes nonsensical when it gets placed in an era of time it doesn't belong in. It doesn't belong before the trib, it belongs after the trib. Otherwise should we then think 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 gets fulfilled twice?

Obviously there will be saved ones still alive and remaining when Jesus returns, as in His 2nd coming. Obviously as well there will be a resurrection of the saved dead when Jesus returns, as in His 2nd coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


If this can occur at the 2nd coming, yet already occurred Pretrib, how can that not be rendering this passage nonsensical? What's written in verse 17 is only going to happen one time, not multiple times.

 

[JacksBratt]

Maybe I should try putting it another way---it's Pretrib that gets the most coverage. Kind of like Trump, who out of all recent Presidents seems to get the most media coverage, thus attracts the most attention, but usually not in a good way though.

I see.. But, this in no way has any affect or indication to whether it is the true time of the rapture.. Just that it is the most discussed or known.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

JacksBratt said: ↑
So........teaching about something that is truth.. should be avoided because others see it as fantasy?

When have Christians ever stopped teaching truth just because others thought it was fantasy?

I see.. But, this in no way has any affect or indication to whether it is the true time of the rapture.. Just that it is the most discussed or known.

Where is the rapture shown in Revelation?
And could someone please respond to my previous posts?
Or is this a private debate/discussion between you 2.......Thanks.

 

[JacksBratt]

Keep in mind, I am assuming these things via their perspectives. I'm not calling the rapture a fantasy. The rapture is not even nonsensical if one places it in the correct era of time. It only becomes nonsensical when it gets placed in an era of time it doesn't belong in. It doesn't belong before the trib, it belongs after the trib. Otherwise should we then think 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 gets fulfilled twice?

Obviously there will be saved ones still alive and remaining when Jesus returns, as in His 2nd coming. Obviously as well there will be a resurrection of the saved dead when Jesus returns, as in His 2nd coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


If this can occur at the 2nd coming, yet already occurred Pretrib, how can that not be rendering this passage nonsensical? What's written in verse 17 is only going to happen one time, not multiple times.

I disagree.. There is no way that I am comforted by those words. The words that say that my 82 year old aunt will face decapitation for her love of the lord. Or that a 14 year old little girl will have to chose between decapitation or taking the mark...
There is no way that the biblical account allows for the 2.2 billion Christians to be some how protected from the hell on earth.. without the rapture before it all takes place.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I disagree.. There is no way that I am comforted by those words. The words that say that my 82 year old aunt will face decapitation for her love of the lord. Or that a 14 year old little girl will have to chose between decapitation or taking the mark...
There is no way that the biblical account allows for the 2.2 billion Christians to be some how protected from the hell on earth.. without the rapture before it all takes place.

Comfort.................

1 Thessalonians 5
9 For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him.
11 Therefore encourage and build one another up, just as you are already doing.

2Co 1:4
who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble,
with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.

2 Corinthians 11
22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they servants of Christ? I am speaking like I am out of my mind, but I am so much more:
in harder labor,
in more imprisonments,
in worse beatings,
in frequent danger of death.
24 By Judeans five times forty minus one.
25 Three times I was beaten with rods,
once I was stoned,
three times I was shipwrecked. I spent a night and a day in the open sea.
26 In my frequent journeys, I have been in dangers of rivers
and to dangers of bandits,
in dangers from fellow race,
from the Gentiles,
in city and in wilderness,
in danger on the sea
and to dangers in false brothers,
27 in labor and toil and often without sleep,
in hunger and thirst,
and often without food, in cold and exposure.

1 Corinthians 4:
8 Already you have all you want. Already you have become rich. Without us, you have become kings. How I wish you really were kings, so that we might be kings with you.
9 For it seems to me that God has displayed us apostles at the end of the procession, like prisoners appointed for death.
We have become a spectacle to the whole world, to angels as well as to men.

10 We are fools for Christ, but you are wise in Christ. We are weak, but you are strong. You are honored, but we are dishonored.
11 To this very hour we are hungry and thirsty,
we are poorly clothed,
we are brutally treated,
we are homeless.
12 We work hard with our own hands.
When we are vilified, we bless;
when we are persecuted, we endure it;
13 when we are slandered, we answer gently.
Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.

 

[JacksBratt]

Where is the rapture shown in Revelation?

Revelation 3:10 New International Version (NIV)
10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

And could someone please respond to my previous posts?
Or is this a private debate/discussion between you 2.......Thanks.

Sorry, not sure which part you are asking to be commented on.

I apologize but sometimes all the scripture intermingled with the bolded colored and large lettering confuse me.

 

[JacksBratt]

Comfort.................

1 Thessalonians 5
9 For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him.
11 Therefore encourage and build one another up, just as you are already doing.

2Co 1:4
who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble,
with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.

2 Corinthians 11
22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they servants of Christ? I am speaking like I am out of my mind, but I am so much more:
in harder labor,
in more imprisonments,
in worse beatings,
in frequent danger of death.
24 By Judeans five times forty minus one.
25 Three times I was beaten with rods,
once I was stoned,
three times I was shipwrecked. I spent a night and a day in the open sea.
26 In my frequent journeys, I have been in dangers of rivers
and to dangers of bandits,
in dangers from fellow race,
from the Gentiles,
in city and in wilderness,
in danger on the sea
and to dangers in false brothers,
27 in labor and toil and often without sleep,
in hunger and thirst,
and often without food, in cold and exposure.

1 Corinthians 4:
8 Already you have all you want. Already you have become rich. Without us, you have become kings. How I wish you really were kings, so that we might be kings with you. 9 For it seems to me that God has displayed us apostles at the end of the procession, like prisoners appointed for death. We have become a spectacle to the whole world, to angels as well as to men.

10 We are fools for Christ, but you are wise in Christ. We are weak, but you are strong. You are honored, but we are dishonored.
11 To this very hour we are hungry and thirsty,
we are poorly clothed,
we are brutally treated,
we are homeless.
12 We work hard with our own hands.
When we are vilified, we bless;
when we are persecuted, we endure it;
13 when we are slandered, we answer gently.
Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.

Sorry, but again, all the bold letters, colors, scripture and only one word from yourself "comfort", make it very difficult for me to understand your point... It's a long read and all you are really doing is posting biblical scripture.

Maybe some more of your own thoughts and views would help me.

 

[DavidPT]

Or that a 14 year old little girl will have to chose between decapitation or taking the mark...

This gets us somewhat back to the OP. Let's say this 14 year old girl is not even saved. And let's also say, assuming a Pretrib rapture, that only children 11 years old or less will be raptured, all others will be looked at as accountable. In a scenario like that even Pretrib was of no benefit for this 14 year old. So either way then this 14 year would have to choose between decapitation or taking the mark. But you seem to think this is only a post trib problem, and not also a Pretrib problem.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Sorry, not sure which part you are asking to be commented on.
I apologize but sometimes all the scripture intermingled with the bolded colored and large lettering confuse me.

I will work on correcting that.

post on the "trumpets"

Children in the Rapture?

post on the "Air"

Children in the Rapture?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑ Comfort.................

1 Thessalonians 5
9 For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him.
11 Therefore encourage and build one another up, just as you are already doing.

2Co 1:4
who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble,
with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God

Sorry, but again, all the bold letters, colors, scripture and only one word from yourself "comfort", make it very difficult for me to understand your point... It's a long read and all you are really doing is posting biblical scripture.

Maybe some more of your own thoughts and views would help me.

Remember that Paul was trying to comfort his followers, some of who probably had families, warning them [as Jesus did in the 70ad Olivet Discourse] of the coming 1st century Jewish Wars and the holocaust/slaughter of 70ad........

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive
The Historical Fall of Jerusalem in AD70
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."

Jhn 16:33
“These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

[FWIW, Luke never uses the word "tribulation/s" in his Gospel........
The word "TRIBULATION" does not occur in Luke's Gospel.]
========================
Luke 21:23
“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be Great Distress in the land and wrath upon this people.'

Luke 23:27 Followed yet to Him a vast multitude of the people and of women were. And grieved and wailed over Him.
28 Being turned yet toward them, Jesus said "Daughters of Jerusalem no be lamenting over Me, moreover for yourselves be-lamenting, and upon the children of ye.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

While Jerusalem was a prey to these ferocious and devouring factions, every part of Judea was scourged and laid waste by bands of robbers and murderers, who plundered the towns; and, in case of resistance, slew the inhabitants, not sparing either women or children.

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen. In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ; and had actually eaten one half thereof, when the soldiers, allured by tile smell of food, threatened her with instant death if she refused to discover it. 'Intimidated by this menace, she immediately produced the remains of her son, which petrified them with horror. At the recital of this melancholy and affecting occurrence, the whole city stood aghast, and poured forth their congratulations on those whom death had hurried away from such heartrending scenes..................

Revelation 9:6
And in those days the men shall be seeking the death, and not no shall be finding it;
and shall be desiring/yearning<1937> to be dying, and the death is fleeing from them.

Revelation 18:8
“Thru this shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and mourning<3997> and famine<3042>
And in fire She shall be being burned, for strong is the Lord God the One judging Her.

 

[Galil7.62x51]

I agree... At the end of 7 years of the worst hatred towards Christians... who would be there to meet in the sky after the dead in Christ rise first? All would be dead.

There is no miraculous protection of the 2.2 billion Christians on this earth... during the time of the antichrist.... after "The one who restrains" is taken out of the earth.... other than a pre trib rapture.

I used to be a hard core post tribulation believer. I thought that the pre trib teaching was coming from “feel good” preachers that compromise the Word in order to tickle the ears of their of their lukewarm congregation. It took a good while of the Holy Spirit yanking on the bit to turn this ol mule around to see the truth.