Children and education in Faith

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nestoj

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I wanted to ask you for opinion.

Couple years ago our ministry of education has included two new classes from which students of elementary schools (actually, choosing is done by parents) must choose one: Civil Education or Faith Education (this is literal translation and in spirit it would be “basics of Christianity and Orthodox theology”). Although percentage of choused class is still 70-30 in favor of Civil Education, this Sunday I’ve attended DL in one small church where there ware about 15 – 20 of us, grownups, and more than 50, eight to fourteen years old, children who organized themselves and came alone, while their parents found something more important to do.

We’ve had 50 years long downfall and I believe that introducing this kind of education was one of few things our government could do to, at least for the future, improve things. Must say that both of my daughters are attending “Faith Education”, and I don’t have a single thing to regret.

Back to topic.

Although it was really inspiring what these children have done, I’m truly disappointed by behavior of us, elder. My 60 years old father only recently received his first Eucharist in life, and I’m still battling my 78 years old grandfather – not about him doing something to save himself, actually he criticizes me for putting to much burden with fasting and all, and it’s a man who is close to end of this life I’m speaking of (I am really afraid for him).

I guess that elders find it hard to listen those younger that they are.

I ask you:
- Why do we put so much confidence in our wisdom, and so little in our hearth and in voice of a Holy Spirit?

- Can a child do enough to make those who should teach him, start learning from him?

- Is it OK, from your point of view, to begin teaching children this early (7 years old) about God (I don’t have any doubts, just want to hear from you)?
 

Knowledge3

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Yes, of course.

I would teach my own child about θεός as soon as he/she is able to grasp and understand basic concepts in elementary education.

BTW, Fr. Anthony also teaches the students enrolled in St. Peter's Classical School which is also part of our parish.

A easy-to-understand illustrated Bible depicting the gospel is a good place to start. :priest:
 
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kamikat

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My son is 7 and I do teach him about God. In fact, I teach my 4 year old about God. The thing is to keep is age appropriate. They may not completely understand the deeper theological concepts, but they can understand that Jesus loves them and it makes Him happy to hear their prayers. I don't know if you can get them where you are, but here in the States, there are lots of book written for children. We have prayer books written specifically for children, as well as books about all the major holidays and some bible stories.
 
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ModernDaySpyridon

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Exactly. :thumbsup:

Children need to know about the love of God just as much as anybody else. Remember, Jesus himself rebuked his disciples for preventing children from coming to him. The kingdom of God is made of such as these. ;)

One of the best things my mom had around was an illustrated Bible that had a Bible story per page, but they looked more like comics, but realistically depicted. I used to read it for hours, especially the OT stories.
 
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cassc

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Hi there,
I would say that it is never too early to begin teaching Children about God and their faith. My parish has religious education programs for children 3 and up, but you can definitely begin even before that at home. If you recite a short prayer over an infant every night by the time they are 18 to 24 months they should be able to recite it with you. Here are a few websites that sell great children's books:

Orthodox Marketplace

Conciliar Press
 
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I

IWantTheosis

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I ask you:
- I ask you:
- Why do we put so much confidence in our wisdom, and so little in our hearth and in voice of a Holy Spirit?

- Can a child do enough to make those who should teach him, start learning from him?

- Is it OK, from your point of view, to begin teaching children this early (7 years old) about God (I don’t have any doubts, just want to hear from you)?

I like these questions very much, and the Bible has some absolutely beautiful verses about them. I hope these verses help you understand.

You ask:
Why do we put so much confidence in our wisdom, and so little in our hearth and in voice of a Holy Spirit?
God says:
Pro 3:1-7 KJV said:
My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments: For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee. Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart: So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man. Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.


I don't know why we shouldn't trust God, because He knows more things than we do. I think we are proud and want to be strong, and we are afraid that saying we don't know things will make others think we are weak. But we really are weak, so we lie to ourselves when we act strong. So, I think it is the fear of being weak that makes people tell themselves that they know everything.

You ask:
Can a child do enough to make those who should teach him, start learning from him?
God says:
Isa 11:6 KJV said:
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.


Although we think that a child is inexperienced and cannot lead, God inspired the prophet Isaiah by showing him that all things are possible in Christ. The sweet little Baby Jesus was the King and Saviour of the world before He could even speak. Also, the blessed Mother Mary was a very young girl when the angel Gabriel came to her, and might have been very scared. But now she leads all of us in being the very first Christian because her purity and childlike innocence allowed her to bear God the Word.

You ask:
Is it OK, from your point of view, to begin teaching children this early (7 years old) about God (I don’t have any doubts, just want to hear from you)?
God says:
Mar 10:15 KJV said:
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

I think God is saying that children should be taught about God, and only those that are children or become like them can hope to learn anything about the Lord and how to love Jesus.
 
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Philothei

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Nestoj, it is too bad you are starting from bottom up. The youngest generation teaching the old. You have to start from somewhere though and it is great that they offer that option at schools. In Greece the opposite case senario. The Gov't has started to make religion class non-mandatory and there is talk about taking out alltogether... what a shame that will be.

As someone who has done youth work over the years I believe that rel. education is best achieved in the Church. DL being the best teacher for all ages. The Church setting is a classroom. Even children as little as 4 can benefit from it. Instuction is important to supplument the experience of religion as expressed through the Eucarist and the sacraments.

I remember bringing my daughter with me at the choir loft. The choir would "cover" her "soft cries" and she learned the hymns pretty early. Now she sings in the choir and she loves it.
It is important for children to experience the fullness of the faith that is precicely the reason we baptize them babies so that they fully participate in the life of the Church.

I had to paste this one as I found it beautiful....

Children in Orthodoxy
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Printable version
The Orthodox Church is a Church with a beautiful attitude toward children. It is also a Church to which children like to go. All ages, all kinds and sorts, feel at home in it. Children love to be with their parents and other adults. In the Orthodox Church there is an atmosphere of beauty and music, even the small ones lie relaxed and quiet in their parents' arms. There is no problem of holding young married people, either, when they may bring their little ones to Communion on any Sunday until the child is seven. From this time on, he will only receive Communion after very special preparation, as do the adults.
Among Anglicans and Roman Catholics and Protestants Holy Communion, or Mass, or the Lord's Supper is only partaken after the individual is initiated into full membership in their particular denomination. It is very surprising for Western Christians to see infants receive the Holy Sacrament. This custom is fundamental in the Orthodox Church. Only in Orthodox christianity are infants admitted to full membership through Baptism and Chrisamation (Confirmation) which are administered at the same time, as the rite of Christian initiation.
"The attitude of the Orthodox Church toward the child, and the child's attitude toward the Church, both stem from the nature of Orthodoxy itself. For the genius of the Orthodox Church is its objective approach. Men and women are urged to leave their hopes and fears for a time, and join in the worship of heaven. Christian doctrines are mighty realities. 'That God is great and man is little is everywhere and at all times insisted upon in Orthodox prayers and services. Man...must sink his own hopes and fears in something greater and grander.'"

Typical of this attitude is one of the hymns which is an adaptation of part of the Liturgy of St. James:
  • 'Let all mortal flesh keep silence,
    and with fear and trembling stand;
    Ponder nothing earthly-minded,
    for with blessing in his hand
    Christ our God to earth descendeth,
    our full homage to demand.'
It is not easy to describe Orthodox worship to one who has not experienced it...
There is a real beauty of holiness in Orthodox churches. Beauty of architecture, of art, of music, and of devotion, all blended together.Music from the choir floods the building. A drama is in process, the Drama of Salvation, and every worshipper is a participant... The sense of freedom is amazing. The sense of belonging, of at-homeness, on the part of the worshippers, even of the small children, is striking. The degree of participation by each one is impressive...
There are interests that divide us: intellectuals from non-intellectuals, educated from non-educated, old from young, rich from poor, Churches which place the main emphasis on the sermon can scarcely avoid such divisions. But in the Orthodox churches you will find all economic and educational levels, all ages...
All of this is but the application of certain basic principles of Christian nurture held by the Orthodox:
1. There is the attitude that the child is to be grafted at once into the Body of the Church. Born to Orthodox parents, membership in the Orthodox Church is open to him by right of birth. In consequense of this belief, the infant is baptized and confirmed in the first weeks of his life, and is taken to the Church for his first Communion at six weeks... Many modern Western 'Christians' would advise letting the child grow up outside the Church in order that he may decide for himself when he is mature. But what family would send its children at birth to an orphanage until the said children were old enough to decide whether or not they would pledge love and loyalty to the family in which they were born? Or, what nation would send its potential citizens away to a neutral spot until they came of an age to decide under which type of government they preferred to live?
2. Nothing is taught the child that is 'childish,' and so to be discarded when he reaches maturity. 'The traditional family training in prayer life also begins with the training in certain devout gestures. Each baby wears its baptismal cross around its neck, has an icon placed over its cot, is taught to make the sign of the cross, to kiss the icon. As the child grows in understanding these gestures are not discarded as a 'child's religion', but are simply filled with a deeper meaning. "The psychology here is in thorough accord with the child's physical, mental, and emotional development. The baby shows his love for his parents through gestures long before he can say 'I love you,' or before he can say the Fourth Commandment.
3. This Church takes the stand that the Church and the home are the institutions responsible for the child's Christian nurture, and not the school, which, more and more has become a tool of the state...
4. The Orthodox Church employs the best character training principle known to psychologists and educators today: the principle of participation. The acolytes in our churches are participating in corporate worship. Participation in worthwhile activities, either with adults or other children, is the soundest of educational principles. We teach our children what we believe, we live in our church together with them.'
This is sound educational doctrine. In any case, the greater part of learning is absorbed from the environment. Children absorb atmosphere as a sponge absorbs water. And when they participate with their parents, and moulding ideas come in association with those who love them best, there is an emotional overtone such as can never be given in parish house 'classes' for nursery age or kindergarten children.
Liturgy
All these prove that the Orthodox Liturgy is not simply an object of admiration for outsiders but something that concerns them more deeply in their studies. Particularly, the liturgical movement which has for some years become so widespread in the West, is systematically studying the Eastern Liturgy and trying to draw from it useful elements for enriching the Western Liturgy. One of such elements recently added to the worship program of the Roman Church is the Eastern Midnight Mass (Vigile Pascale) which was taken from the Eastern tradition and made a great sensation in the Western world. It is generally accepted that "the Roman Catholic theologians by coming in touch with the Orthodox have become better aware of the central position of the liturgic sacraments within Christianity. They have gone deeper into the meaning of worship and have been enriched by the East: "With an ever-increasing interest, the Latin specialists on liturgies turn their eyes, with curiosity and attention toward the eastern liturgical forms. They do not wish to know them so much as to find in them a solution to the problems that their own liturgy has created. At least they expect from them some light that will guide them in their quest for a liturgy more alive and more open to the faithful. " However, of these liturgical treasures we shall speak again in subsequent chapters.
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/gharvey/learning/articles/children.htm


God bless,
Philothei
 
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Xpycoctomos

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I ask you:
- Why do we put so much confidence in our wisdom, and so little in our hearth and in voice of a Holy Spirit?

That's human nature. However, in the personal things of fasting, I wouldn't bug my grandpa about this. As much importance as we put on fasting, it really is a lesser of the spiritual practices and, besides this, it is just something that is so personal.Harping on your grandpa (while out of the best of intentions) about fasting may prove to be a greater deterrant to his spiritual life than if you... bought him a steak. I'm not telling you to go out and buy a steak, I'm just saying that his spiritual life doesn't depend on if he eats meat or not, but rather what his prayer life is like and whether he can let God in to take over his life. Getting on him about eating meat and cheese may just make him feel like all of this religion stuff is too confining. if I understand your history even a little bit, it seems that y our father lived through a very crazy time in the life of the Church and Serbia where they were overridden with communist propaganda. That your grandfather believes at all is a miracle (from what i understand talking to my Russian friends). Don't get me wrong, fasting is important, but I just don't think it's a litmus test for anything at all. If you're grandfather is meant to fast, he will when he is ready. In the meantime, just pray for him if you fear he might not pray or love his neighbor. However, we should always remember St Ephraim's prayer "Grant that I may see my own errors...".

- Can a child do enough to make those who should teach him, start learning from him?

I'm sure it's possible and happens all the time. But I think in general, it is better to teach from example and pray. Be silent in word and loud in action, grasshopper :) However, don't forget that your grandfather may have wonderful advice to offer you that youth doesn't allow us to understand (in our thick-headedness) until we are older.

- Is it OK, from your point of view, to begin teaching children this early (7 years old) about God (I don’t have any doubts, just want to hear from you)?

OK? It should be a norm. Religion is not for the literate and intelligent... it's for everyone to understand and use per their own ability. It's essential. I coudl go on, but I think I am preaching to the choir :)

John
 
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Dust and Ashes

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My son is 4 months old and when we sit him in his high-chair to eat breakfast and dinner, we take his little hand and make the sign of the cross and say a simple prayer. I try to pray in front of him as often as I can and walk around the Church showing him the icons. It's about all we can do at this point but as soon as he is ready for more, I want to raise him immersed in Orthodoxy.
 
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nestoj

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Philotei, I understand you completly and my doughters are regular with me on DL. I wanted to know what do you guys think about government making religious education almost mandatory, and all of the answers are, if I understand you, positive.Xpycoctomos, I agree with wath you are saying brother, problem is I'm not pressing the man to believe at all, he presses me for believing.I've always thought that I accept children as equal, now I see that this will be truth when I start looking apon them in all those things where they are wiser then us. I also believe now that sins of the fathers are not passed to the sons. nestojGod Helps
 
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Xpycoctomos

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My son is 4 months old and when we sit him in his high-chair to eat breakfast and dinner, we take his little hand and make the sign of the cross and say a simple prayer. I try to pray in front of him as often as I can and walk around the Church showing him the icons. It's about all we can do at this point but as soon as he is ready for more, I want to raise him immersed in Orthodoxy.
How is he doing on the Essence and Energies. My godson (about 1 yr old) still hasn't grasped the difference... I think he's a little dense.
 
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Xpycoctomos

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Philotei, I understand you completly and my doughters are regular with me on DL. I wanted to know what do you guys think about government making religious education almost mandatory, and all of the answers are, if I understand you, positive.Xpycoctomos, I agree with wath you are saying brother, problem is I'm not pressing the man to believe at all, he presses me for believing.I've always thought that I accept children as equal, now I see that this will be truth when I start looking apon them in all those things where they are wiser then us. I also believe now that sins of the fathers are not passed to the sons. nestojGod Helps
Good points.

About religion class being mandatory... I think it has a place where a religion has been a bedrock of a nation. For the US, it has been a philosophy of democracy that defines us. Without that, we are just a land of immigrants. Your identity is tied up in ethnicity and religion which can withstand coups and new governments. Serbia is still serbia no matter what one does. America is no longer anything without Democracy and... well... capitalism on crack. I guess that's a long way of saying taht such a class makes sense in your country... here it would almost go against the grain and I would say it wouldn't be appropriate (However, as a public educator I must say that it is to our disgrace that philosophy is not mandatory in most states, if not all).

That's my opinion on the matter... and more :) I don't expect everyone to agree with me nor do I think they are bad people if they don't. Just wanted to make that clear :)

John
 
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Dust and Ashes

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How is he doing on the Essence and Energies. My godson (about 1 yr old) still hasn't grasped the difference... I think he's a little dense.

I think he has a basic grasp of the difference but he's completely stumped on the hypostatic union. I'm really concerned about his spiritual development at this point.
 
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I think he has a basic grasp of the difference but he's completely stumped on the hypostatic union. I'm really concerned about his spiritual development at this point.

Instead of Einstein, have you considered getting him Baby Hesychast? ;) :D
 
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Dust and Ashes

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Actually, I've been thinking about doing something like that. He loves the Baby Einstein videos so I figured since Orthodoxy has so much beauty, why not make some videos for young children with lots of contrasting images from the Church, coupled with chanting and readings.

I asked a friend who does lots of video editing and he said the hardest part would be the legal aspect with the footage and images. I'm sure there is a bishop who would give an ok for someone to put something like that together. I know I'd buy it.

James is always craning and twisting to look at the icons and watch what's going on in the services (when he's not sleeping) that I know the beauty captivates him.
 
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Xpycoctomos

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I think he has a basic grasp of the difference but he's completely stumped on the hypostatic union. I'm really concerned about his spiritual development at this point.
Just keep praying.. the grace from baptism should kick in any day now.... we all hope.

John
 
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Xpycoctomos

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James is always craning and twisting to look at the icons and watch what's going on in the services (when he's not sleeping) that I know the beauty captivates him.

My friends put some icons propped up against the wall on the floor so he could get used to seeing them and learning to respect and kiss them. When he starts walking they are going to nail one (a few???) up at eye level for him. I think that's so cool and such a great idea! (I'm stealing it!)

John
 
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