Charting Revelation 6-19

[Douggg]

In Revelation 19 the rider on the white horse is commonly seen as Christ (let me know if you think it’s not). How can Christ be riding the white horse before the last enemy, which is death, is destroyed?

In Revelation 19, Jesus riding the white horse is bringing the Kingdom of God to earth to replace the stranglehold that Satan and his third of the angels mystical (non-geographical) kingdom symbolically called Babylon the Great has had over the nations and humanity. Ending their kingdom.

He brings to an end a 6000 years period begun in the garden of Eden. Humans during the 1000 year reign will live longer lifespans, and learn war no more among the nations. Satan's kingdom will never rise again. The best he will be able to do at the end of the 1000 years, when released for a short season, will be able to get some of the nations to rebel, like he got a third of the angels to rebel. It will be a quick ending to it though, unlike previous times.

Then the Great White Throne Judgement, after which there will be no more death, as death and hell are cast into the lake of fire at the Great White Throne Judgement, in Revelation 20:14 .

 

[grafted branch]

In Revelation 19, Jesus riding the white horse is bringing the Kingdom of God to earth to replace the stranglehold that Satan and his third of the angels mystical (non-geographical) kingdom symbolically called Babylon the Great has had over the nations and humanity. Ending their kingdom.

He brings to an end a 6000 years period begun in the garden of Eden. Humans during the 1000 year reign will live longer lifespans, and learn war no more among the nations. Satan's kingdom will never rise again. The best he will be able to do at the end of the 1000 years, when released for a short season, will be able to get some of the nations to rebel, like he got a third of the angels to rebel. It will be a quick ending to it though, unlike previous times.

Then the Great White Throne Judgement, after which there will be no more death, as death and hell are cast into the lake of fire at the Great White Throne Judgement, in Revelation 20:14 .

Thanks for your explanation. On one of your other charts, from several months ago, you showed the white horse in Revelation 19 occurring before Jesus returns on day 2520, which you have as prior to the millennial reign.

My question specifically is how can Christ be on the white horse prior to His second coming if He has to remain at the right hand of God until his enemies are made his footstool (Psalms 110:1). The last enemy to be destroyed is death (1 Corinthians 15:26), which I agree with you happens when it is cast into the lake of fire. ISTM that according to Colossians 3:1 Christ is currently sitting at the right hand of God, so do you spiritualize the meaning of “right hand of God”? Or do you think Christ is not currently sitting at the right hand of God?

 

[BABerean2]

Then the Great White Throne Judgement, after which there will be no more death, as death and hell are cast into the lake of fire at the Great White Throne Judgement, in Revelation 20:14 .

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.



2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


.

 

[Douggg]

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.



2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


.

BAB2, when you read Revelation 6-19, you would do well to think about this, regarding the mystery of God in Revelation 10:7....

"... my overall bible view is that the mystery of God is His plan to correct all that is wrong in the world begun in the garden of Eden, and Satan and his third of the angels rebellion. That's what's in my mind when I read Revelation."

 

[Douggg]

Thanks for your explanation. On one of your other charts, from several months ago, you showed the white horse in Revelation 19 occurring before Jesus returns on day 2520, which you have as prior to the millennial reign.

This chart? I still use it, but I didn't focus on it in this thread. What I showed on it is the rider on the white horse as the first seal rider in Revelation 6:2, at the beginning of the 7 years. I consider that rider as the Antichrist.

My question specifically is how can Christ be on the white horse prior to His second coming if He has to remain at the right hand of God until his enemies are made his footstool (Psalms 110:1).

Jesus, for certain, is the rider on the white horse in Revelation 19.

During the second half of the seven years, God is dismantling Satan's and his third of the angels kingdom of Babylon the great - Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen. So those enemies of Jesus are made Jesus's footstool before He returns, and God will have poured out His wrath in the vials on the beasts' kingdom as well, the last of which is the 7th vial.

Or do you think Christ is not currently sitting at the right hand of God?

Jesus is currently sitting at the right hand of God right now, is what I think.

 

[Running2win]

Thanks for your explanation. On one of your other charts, from several months ago, you showed the white horse in Revelation 19 occurring before Jesus returns on day 2520, which you have as prior to the millennial reign.

My question specifically is how can Christ be on the white horse prior to His second coming if He has to remain at the right hand of God until his enemies are made his footstool (Psalms 110:1). The last enemy to be destroyed is death (1 Corinthians 15:26), which I agree with you happens when it is cast into the lake of fire. ISTM that according to Colossians 3:1 Christ is currently sitting at the right hand of God, so do you spiritualize the meaning of “right hand of God”? Or do you think Christ is not currently sitting at the right hand of God?

If you read down further and compare Psalm 2 and Rev 19, you get your answer. Christ does not start to reign until the start of the MK. He destroys the nations that came against Jerusalem, He reigns for 1000 years, and then He delivers up the Kingdom to the Father after the 1000 year reign. This is the Pre-Mill viewpoint.

5The Lord is at Your right hand;
He will shatter kings in the day of His wrath.

6He will judge among the nations,
He will fill them with corpses,
He will shatter the chief men over a broad country.

1Why are the nations in an uproar
And the peoples devising a vain thing?

2The kings of the earth take their stand
And the rulers take counsel together
Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,

3“Let us tear their fetters apart
And cast away their cords from us!”

4He who sits in the heavens laughs,
The Lord scoffs at them.

5Then He will speak to them in His anger
And terrify them in His fury,

 

[keras]

when you read Revelation 6-19, you would do well to think about this, regarding the mystery of God in Revelation 10:7....

"... my overall bible view is that the mystery of God is His plan to correct all that is wrong in the world begun in the garden of Eden, and Satan and his third of the angels rebellion. That's what's in my mind when I read Revelation."

Douggg, This is right and I agreed with your post #21.
But why must you shuffle the given sequence of the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls?
Doing that is irrational and quite unnecessary.

I know that Revelation 19:15 mentions God's fierce wrath.
That verse says He will smite the nations with His sharp sword; paralleled with Rev 19:21, killing all the armies of the Anti-Christ at His Return. The 7th Bowl.
But His treading the winepress with the fierce wrath of Almighty God, is a different event and we find it in Revelation 14:17-20. Note; it is done by the angel who has authority over fire.
It is also paralleled by the Sixth Seal; Revelation 6:12-17, as the great and terrible Day of the wrath of Almighty God and the Lamb, which is proved to be by fire in over 70 other prophesies. 2 Peter 3:7, Malachi 4:1, +

 

[grafted branch]

This chart? I still use it, but I didn't focus on it in this thread. What I showed on it is the rider on the white horse as the first seal rider in Revelation 6:2, at the beginning of the 7 years. I consider that rider as the Antichrist.

Yes, that’s the chart; I was looking at the second white horse above the “1290 days” and not the white horse of the first seal.

I think that death become Christ’s footstool, he then gets up and is seen riding the white horse and destroys death by casting it into the lake of fire. I think this all happens on the last day.

I have one final question for now; if Christ remains seated until his enemies are made his footstool, and the last enemy is death, do you then think there is no death in a future millennium?

 

[grafted branch]

If you read down further and compare Psalm 2 and Rev 19, you get your answer. Christ does not start to reign until the start of the MK. He destroys the nations that came against Jerusalem, He reigns for 1000 years, and then He delivers up the Kingdom to the Father after the 1000 year reign. This is the Pre-Mill viewpoint.

5The Lord is at Your right hand;
He will shatter kings in the day of His wrath.

6He will judge among the nations,
He will fill them with corpses,
He will shatter the chief men over a broad country.

1Why are the nations in an uproar
And the peoples devising a vain thing?

2The kings of the earth take their stand
And the rulers take counsel together
Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,

3“Let us tear their fetters apart
And cast away their cords from us!”

4He who sits in the heavens laughs,
The Lord scoffs at them.

5Then He will speak to them in His anger
And terrify them in His fury,

Do you think that Christ is not currently sitting at the right hand of God?

 

[Douggg]

I know that Revelation 19:15 mentions God's fierce wrath.
That verse says He will smite the nations with His sharp sword; paralleled with Rev 19:21, killing all the armies of the Anti-Christ at His Return. The 7th Bowl.

I think the 7th bowl is the last of God's wrath poured out on the beast's kingdom, and Satan and his third of the angels kingdom, symbolically called Babylon the Great.

Differently, in Revelation 19:21, are the armies that have gathered to make war on Jesus.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

I am looking at verse 21 as being Ezekiel 39:17-20.

I think you referred to Revelation 19:15...

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

I look at that as being Psalms 2, when the heathen try to break out from under God's rule, coming by Jesus and the armies of heaven.

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

The speaking to them is, imo,....

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Whatever the words are that Jesus says, the armies will all fall dead.

 

[Douggg]

Yes, that’s the chart; I was looking at the second white horse above the “1290 days” and not the white horse of the first seal.

Oh, that may not show up the right color on your monitor. It tried to make it pale green. The pale horse. It is not intended to be white.

If you right click on the chart, and pick "view image" it might be clearer. Also you can left click and the chart and it zooms in. Left click on the horse and see what color it shows in the zoom in. Click on it again to return to normal view.

I tried to make the rider look like the grim reaper - death.

Looks like I need to do some work on it though. The head and the sickle kinda got cut off.

 

[Running2win]

Do you think that Christ is not currently sitting at the right hand of God?

Yep.

 

[keras]

Whatever the words are that Jesus says, the armies will all fall dead.

Yes; but my point that you avoided, is that the winepress of God's wrath is BEFORE the Return of Jesus. At the Sixth Seal, which you wrongly place at the Return.

Get that right and then you need to address your errors of putting the extra days as per Daniel 12 before the Return.
Your insistence on the European union being the kingdom of the 'beast', a virtually non-existent entity today, also throws the rest of your 'charts' into disrepute.

 

[Douggg]

Yes; but my point that you avoided, is that the winepress of God's wrath is BEFORE the Return of Jesus. At the Sixth Seal, which you wrongly place at the Return.

I think you are misinterpreting the sixth seal, the wrath of the Lamb. It is, imo, referring to Jesus's about to take place vengeance for the martyred great tribulation saints in the fifth seal.

His appearance has to be something that terrifies the wicked of the world. I show Him with a sickle in his hand which I am getting from Revelation 14:14.

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

I show the martyred great tribulation saints on my chart of the second half. And the 5th seal as well...

 

[keras]

I think you are misinterpreting the sixth seal, the wrath of the Lamb. It is, imo, referring to Jesus's about to take place vengeance for the martyred great tribulation saints in the fifth seal.

But the Great Tribulation, which is the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls; has not taken place at that time. The Seals must be removed and fulfilled, before the scroll can be opened and the GT commenced.

The number of the GT martyrs is not completed until the Day Jesus Returns.
The destruction of 'Babylon the great fornicator; happens at the Seventh Bowl. Revelation 16:17-21 and Revelation 17:1-6
Relating that to the Sixth Seal is quite wrong and basically throws your end times chart into disarray.

I repeat my warning; the Sixth Seal is the next prophesied event. It will set the scene for all the many prophesied events and changes that must happen before Jesus Returns.

 

[Running2win]

Yep.

Ah, No. Just read that again. I thought you said is. Of course I do.

I believe in a literal MK where Jesus comes back to take possession of the earth at Rev 19, He reigns for 1000 years, great white throne judgment, then no more sin or death.

I believe different than Doug does on the timing of the resurrection/rapture, placing this at the sixth seal-which corresponds to Mat 24 (after the great Trib). This is the Pre-wrath viewpoint, his is Pre-trib.

I do not believe in a general resurrection- because we have Rev 20, which teaches us there are 1000 years in between-if that is what you are getting at. Paul also confirms this in 1st Cor 15, where there are 3 parts to the resurrection: Christ being the first fruits, they that are His at His coming/parousia, then comes the end (when) He hands over the kingdom to the Father. So I tie this third part of the resurrection with the resurrection of the unjust, at the great white throne.

Christ first has to reign over the nations with a rod of iron (Psalm 2) before He can hand the kingdom over to the Father. He does this over on Mount Zion in Israel on the throne of his father David. He is not doing that now.

‘Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come. 26‘He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS; 27AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father;

1The word which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2Now it will come about that
In the last days
The mountain of the house of the LORD
Will be established as the chief of the mountains,
And will be raised above the hills;
And all the nations will stream to it.

3And many peoples will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
That He may teach us concerning His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.”
For the law will go forth from Zion
And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

4And He will judge between the nations,
And will render decisions for many peoples;
And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
And never again will they learn war.

 

[Douggg]

But the Great Tribulation, which is the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls; has not taken place at that time. The Seals must be removed and fulfilled, before the scroll can be opened and the GT commenced.

The 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls are "in" the great tribulation.

The seals have already been "opened" in order to view what was in the book.

Now that it is known what is in the book, the task is to understand how everything fits.

The seals themselves having been "opened" for knowing what is in the book are not preventing anything from happening. Those being opened already is a foregone fact.

As a matter of reference, we say the 1st seal, the 2nd seal, and so on.

A timeline chart is a tool employed to put the events in order, one to another.

 

[Douggg]

The number of the GT martyrs is not completed until the Day Jesus Returns.

The martyrs in the 5th seal are told to wait, because there was still time left which the 7 trumpets and 7 bowls were to take place. During which time there would be more martyrs.

The destruction of 'Babylon the great fornicator; happens at the Seventh Bowl. Revelation 16:17-21 and Revelation 17:1-6
Relating that to the Sixth Seal is quite wrong and basically throws your end times chart into disarray.

Babylon the great is not the harlot who gets the destroyed by the ten kings. Babylon the great gets destroyed by God.

The mystery of the woman riding the beast is that she preceded the great harlot who gets destroyed.

The woman riding the beast represents Satan and his fallen angels kingdom - going all the way back to the beginning of the bible. Responsible for harlots (false religions) and abominations upon the earth.

One of those harlots is the great harlot who gets destroyed by the ten kings.

 

[iamlamad]

But the Great Tribulation, which is the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls; has not taken place at that time. The Seals must be removed and fulfilled, before the scroll can be opened and the GT commenced.

The number of the GT martyrs is not completed until the Day Jesus Returns.
The destruction of 'Babylon the great fornicator; happens at the Seventh Bowl. Revelation 16:17-21 and Revelation 17:1-6
Relating that to the Sixth Seal is quite wrong and basically throws your end times chart into disarray.

I repeat my warning; the Sixth Seal is the next prophesied event. It will set the scene for all the many prophesied events and changes that must happen before Jesus Returns.

Keras, sometimes you write a very good post! ;-)

 

[iamlamad]

The martyrs in the 5th seal are told to wait, because there was still time left which the 7 trumpets and 7 bowls were to take place. During which time there would be more martyrs.


Babylon the great is not the harlot who gets the destroyed by the ten kings. Babylon the great gets destroyed by God.

The mystery of the woman riding the beast is that she preceded the great harlot who gets destroyed.

The woman riding the beast represents Satan and his fallen angels kingdom - going all the way back to the beginning of the bible. Responsible for harlots (false religions) and abominations upon the earth.

One of those harlots is the great harlot who gets destroyed by the ten kings.

I still disagree: it will be the pretrib rapture that ENDS the church age, and causes the last martyr of the church age to BE that last martyr. Since this will happen before the 6th seal start of WRATH, then it is before all trumpets and all vials - in short, before any part of the 70th week - and of course before God's wrath.

Wrong again, "mystery Babylon" IS "the harlot" IS the one seen riding the beast, IS the one destroyed by the ten kings. It is all ONE entity which is non other than the Mystery city of Jerusalem: which is the city of Jerusalem WHILE the Beast and False Prophet are there deceiving the world.

She is first seal RIDING the Beast which is the time while the world is being deceived from the false god in Jerusalem. Then later she is seen being destroyed.

"MYSTERY Babylon" the city of Jerusalem that deceives the entire world, will disappear and never be seen again. But the real, physical, city will be rebuilt and stand forever.