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Featured Charting Revelation 6-19

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Aug 6, 2020.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I am undertaking a massive project to chart Revelation 6-19. I will keep the updates as I progress in this opening post.

    Leaving the remainder of the thread for you guys to tell me how wrong I may be.
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    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
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  2. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Frankly, based on previous charts of yours, you already are wrong here before it even begins, so you know.
     
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  3. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    For one ... you are wrong because your charts do not align with the book of Daniel and the interpretation of Nebuchadnezzars' dream. His dream takes us through several rise and falls of kingdoms culminating until Jesus returns (when this last kingdom is destroyed). After the last kingdom (of which we know from history) was pagan Rome .... the next event is destruction of the entire image (representing the destruction of this final kingdom) and that happens when Jesus returns.

    Also ... might be my computer .... but several of your charts are not displaying properly.
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    eleos, your computer is okay. I am in the process.

    I have to have historic panels for Revelation 12, 17. And a background panel for Revelation 13.

    And then, the 7 year 70th, which because of forum's software image size restrictions for post, I actually had to make three charts (the 7 year 70th week title page, the first half, and the second half.

    There are a total so far of 6 charts, in my opening post. And there will be a seventh for Jesus's return.

    Revelation 12 historic panel (blank right now)
    Revelation 17 historic panel (blank for the most part)
    Revelation 13 background panel (black right now)
    7 year 70th week title
    The first half (working on)
    The second half (working on)
    Jesus's return (haven't done anything on)

    You will notice a little bit of gap one to the next, that is because I have to load them each by itself as a separate chart, stacking them on top of each other.

    It is a massive project for me because of the technical work-arounds I have to do, on top of what to put on the charts
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
  5. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Ha ha ha ha TS, for once I agree with you!

    He pulls seal one out of its first century context.

    Next, NO trumpet can possibly be sounded until all 7 seals are opened - for a very simple reason: the trumpet are written INSIDE THE BOOK and the book cannot be opened to reveal the trumpets until all 7 seals are opened first.
     
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    okay, you don't like that I put "opened" beside each seal - that's not a problem. I removed the word opened.

    btw, aren't you the one who claims that Abaddon is the beast from the bottomless pit. Look at where he is on my chart. The person is already the beast near the end of the first half.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
  7. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    I don't mind "opened." it is the sequence I disagree with. The first seals were opened in 32 AD as soon as Jesus ascended. And the corresponding events happened way back then, when each seal was opened. Seal one is the church sent out with the gospel.
    I don't think any will know who "the BEAST" is until he is revealed. Some may guess.
     
  8. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I know that Dougg's chart work is the typical or traditional view of the pouring out of the vials, but I don't see it as a progression of one vial poured out after the other. My studies tell me something completely different. I see it as the number 7 signifying the completeness of what is being done, not an indication of successive judgments one after the other. It is the completeness of God's judgment poured out.

    Just as the 7 very literal Churches of Asia didn't really signify 7 separate churches, but aspects of God's corporate Church from different points of view. Like the four gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke & John) painting the very same picture, using different language and speaking of different things that all took place at that same event at the same time. For example, the 7 vials signify the completeness of judgment for the 7 churches (completeness of the Churches). And it doesn't mean that judgment comes on 7 actual or Physical spots (earth, Sea, Sun, etc.) or that 7 actual successive times something happens for the number 7 is spiritual! It means completeness of whatever is in view. In other words, John was shown 7 judgments in this symbolic vision representing one judgment just as he was shown 7 Churches representing one Church. This can also be seen as the 7 vials are poured out on the sun, the fountains, and the throne of the beast, all representing the Church. It's all ultimately representing judgment on the Church. That is it!

    Some brief examples in the context:

    Revelation 16:2 KJV
    [2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

    These plagues are not poured out upon all men, women, and children in the world as is often speculated, but upon the unfaithful Church, which has spiritually become Egypt. The plagues mimic the plagues of Egypt because the church has spiritually become like Egypt! Using ancient Egypt as an example for the church today! As it is written:

    Jude 1:5a
    • "I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not."
    Revelation 11:8
    • "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and EGYPT, where also our Lord was crucified."

    1.) God's judgment upon the people of His house is a given, and that they are spiritually Egypt is also a given. Thus the plagues recorded upon Egypt in the Old Testament were types used in His judgments upon the Church, because it is become a house of bondage. Not the world since it was never faithful representative of God's kingdom on earth. The New Testament Congregation is God's Great City on Earth, the home of Two Witnesses (Faithful Christians), not the world or physical Jerusalem. Remember that!

    2.) The plagues are not poured upon all the people of the world (as is widely believed), but upon all the people WITHIN a great city where she has BECOME a whore who has spiritually become Egypt, which is the Church! This is talking about God's judgment upon PROFESSED CHRISTIANS, not faithful Christians, who have gone after false prophets and christs who have performed lying signs and wonders. They are the ones plagued of God, and they are the ones who at this time had received the mark of the beast signifying they were brought under his rule. For example, the rest of the world is ALREADY CONTROLLED by Satan, but those within of this corporate Church of God are the ones deceived now and will be handed over to Satan to be brought into His prison house, and who worship his image in the Church (2nd Thess 2). This is where the Man of sin ruled, and where the men which had RECEIVED the mark of the beast dwelled, and who worshiped him THERE as if he was God. We have to remember, the sores/plagues signify something. Something which they didn't have previously, but which God put upon them for some reason at this time. not upon the whole world, but upon those symbolized by this particular language.

    The Gospel has nothing to do with Dougg's interpretation of adding 2,000 years gap, peace treaty with Israel, a physical man with supernatural power, Jews fleeing from Israel in the Middle East, a third temple bring rebuilt and taken over by antichrist, a literal plagues poruing all over the world in literal fashion, etc. with all the false doctrines of pre-millennialism craps who only are looking for literal fulfillment without realizing that the judgment is coming upon the church spiritually which explains the chaos we are witnessing in this nation and the world BECAUSE of it. The church has fallen into desolation, and God warns that many will deny this or not realize it just like Jews of Old Testament.

    This is why God warned that there are two groups of Christians within the Church - the Wise Virgins vs. the foolish virgins. The wise see the judgment of God's unfaithful congregations as a signs of Christ's return while the foolish still go to the unfaithful congregation to "buy and sell" while looking for an interpretation from the world news to develop charts just like Dougg is doing. They thought they are seeing the signs of christ return with carnal minds, but they are looking at wrong signs. That's why they are foolish and without spiritual discernment.
     
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    updated opening post.
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people for a period of about seven years, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.

    This was the 70th week of Daniel during the first century.


    The New Covenant in Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner




    If you have to ignore these scriptures to make your chart work, you are wasting your time.


    .
     
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The seven years are stated in the text Romans and Galatians?
     
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  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I completed my series of charts in the opening post with Jesus's Return, Revelation 19.
     
  14. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    1.) You got the timing of Satan cast into bottomless pit wrong. Satan was cast into bottomless pit at the Cross so that Christ could build his church. Not at Second Coming.

    2.) AOD "statue" image into flames. Scripture please.

    3.) The beast and the False prophet are not two men who case alvie into lake of fire. You did not show us God's definition of the beast before you assume that he is a man.

    4.) Zechariah 14 will not take place at Second Coming where you believe that Christ will literally touch down on Mt. Olives that it splits into two so that the Jews could escape on foot. Sigh.
     
  15. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    The FP and abomination (beast) are cast into the lake of fire. The image is Satan's Adam, Messiah, thus Antichrist. It does despicable things for almost 3.5 years. That is why the 2 witnesses are in those 3.5 years. They counteract the FP and the Image (Antichrist). People really cannot understand that Satan is just a loud mouth dictating angel. He has no power nor authority, but demands worship.

    Satan can not do one action unless He gets God's permission. That is why he needs a FP and image. They have free will and can do as they please. Do people not read and understand the book of Job? Job is the symbol of the church. Satan tells the church what to do, because Satan cannot do anything. It is the church who failed to be even self righteous like Job. The church has totally fallen for and accomplished Satan's demands, because Satan could never on his own do a single thing.
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

    14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

    15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

    16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

    17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

    18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

    19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
     
  17. Running2win

    Running2win Well-Known Member

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    You got a lot of good stuff Douggg! You ought to write a book and publish it. :oldthumbsup: You have the basic Pre-mill structure down-which is the truth.

    All Pre-millers disagree on the finer points like the timing of the rapture/resurrection, who and what the final beast empire is and where they come from. But this is minor compared with what we see taught in the Amill and Post-mill camps.

    You really can't reason or even discuss things with a people that don't believe in a more literal, face value hermeneutic, and do not see God dealing with Israel again. Keep up the good fight! :oldthumbsup:

    What is biblical hermeneutics? | GotQuestions.org
     
  18. grafted branch

    grafted branch Member Supporter

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    We are far apart on our interpretations of Revelation, but I would like to ask you about Revelation 19 and Christ sitting at the right hand of God.

    Christ is currently sitting at the right hand of God (Colossians 3:1).​

    Christ remains seated until his enemies are made his footstool (Psalms 110:1).​

    The last enemy is death (1 Corinthians 15:26).​

    In Revelation 19 the rider on the white horse is commonly seen as Christ (let me know if you think it’s not). How can Christ be riding the white horse before the last enemy, which is death, is destroyed?
     
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Many thanks.
     
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I view the rider on the white horse in Revelation 19 as Jesus - the true Christ.

    "the" Christ is, in function, the promised King of Israel, descended from king David. To reign and rule during the messianic age of peace and harmony among other things. Jesus was rejected by his own people, to be that King of Israel. (Mark 15:31-33 "Christ the King of Israel" in the text).

    Differently, in Revelation 6, the first seal, that rider on a white horse is the person who becomes the Antichrist (instead of and against the true Christ Jesus) by being anointed the King of Israel, but coming in his own name. That is to say, someone that God did not select to be their king.

    I see the seals compressed as being the 7 year 70th week. Others see the seals spread over the past 2000 years.

    ________________________________________________

    Some other information is that there has only been three kings over the nation of Israel when it was united, one nation not split into two after Solomon. And all three were anointed by a known prophet, to show that God selected those individuals to be king.

    Saul and David by Samuel the prophet. Solomon by Nathan the prophet.

    Because of that, the Jews believe that the messiah (someone not Jesus in their present view) will be anointed by a known prophet. They also expect Elijah to come right before the messianic age.

    Since the false prophet in Revelation 13 does miracles such as fire coming down from heaven, similar to what Elijah did, many (like me) think the F.P. will claim to be Elijah.

    So my conclusion is that the false prophet will be the one who anoints the person (the little horn coming from the EU following Gog/Magog) the King of Israel. Which is what makes the person at that time the "Antichrist". Until the day he goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God. Showing that he is not the messiah after all, but reveals himself to be the man of sin. That ends his time as the "Antichrist".

    Going forward, he becomes the beast, King of the Roman Empire, dictator of the EU, for the last 42 months of the 7 years.

    btw, historically, Julius Caesar was killed by the Roman Senate for being a "tyrant". Stabbed something like 20+ times, including the one by Brutus to the groin. There are some interesting You Tube videos on Julius Caesar and his end.

    Caesar | Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall Of An Empire | BBC Documentary

    And a follow up one of his demise.

    The person who becomes the Antichrist - King of Israel, and at other times King of the Roman Empire, has to be a Jew and in his blood line also descended from the Juilo-Claudians (the Caesar family).
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
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