Charismatic Baptists

AndOne · Apr 11, 2012

I am going to a SBC in which the pastor seems to really push the gifts of the spirit - mostly healing, dream, visions. Not much by way of toungues - however he doesn't think that one has ceased either. Seems like every Sunday morning I hear reports of the miraculous that people have experienced in the church.

Frankly I find this refreshing - but it hasn't been the norm from my experience in the SBC. Does anyone else go to a similar type church in the SBC?

Just curious...

Osage Bluestem · Apr 11, 2012

Behe's Boy said:
I am going to a SBC in which the pastor seems to really push the gifts of the spirit - mostly healing, dream, visions. Not much by way of toungues - however he doesn't think that one has ceased either. Seems like every Sunday morning I hear reports of the miraculous that people have experienced in the church.

Frankly I find this refreshing - but it hasn't been the norm from my experience in the SBC. Does anyone else go to a similar type church in the SBC?

Just curious...

I would not attend one as I am a cessationist. I don't believe that kind of thing belongs in Baptist churches. It should stay contained in pentacostalism.

phoenixdem · Apr 11, 2012

Pentacostals and Baptists just don't play well together. I wouldn't go to a Pentacostal Church.

WinBySurrender · Apr 11, 2012

Behe's Boy said:
I am going to a SBC in which the pastor seems to really push the gifts of the spirit - mostly healing, dream, visions. Not much by way of toungues - however he doesn't think that one has ceased either. Seems like every Sunday morning I hear reports of the miraculous that people have experienced in the church.

Frankly I find this refreshing - but it hasn't been the norm from my experience in the SBC. Does anyone else go to a similar type church in the SBC?

Just curious...

No, nor would I. The SBC does not believe in these gifts being active, particularly tongues.

International Mission Board :: News & Information

AndOne · Apr 11, 2012

WinBySurrender said:
No, nor would I. The SBC does not believe in these gifts being active, particularly tongues.

International Mission Board :: News & Information

Somebody needs to tell my pastor...

I'm not a cessationist per se. It's not because I've experienced anything miraculous - nor do I really expect to (speaking outside of Grace here) - its because I'm unwilling to throw away portions of scripure - particularly those in 1 Corinthians that address this issue. To me its no different than those who want to throw away portions of Paul's writings that address homosexuality...

Being a Calvinist and non-cessationist never makes me very popular in Baptist circles...

Hammster · Apr 11, 2012

Behe's Boy said:
Somebody needs to tell my pastor...

I'm not a cessationist per se. It's not because I've experienced anything miraculous - nor do I really expect to (speaking outside of Grace here) - its because I'm unwilling to throw away portions of scripure - particularly those in 1 Corinthians that address this issue. To me its no different than those who want to throw away portions of Paul's writings that address homosexuality...

Being a Calvinist and non-cessationist never makes me very popular in Baptist circles...

Mars Hill will probably open a campus there soon. Then you can be popular.

<*(((><

AndOne · Apr 11, 2012

Hammster said:
Mars Hill will probably open a campus there soon. Then you can be popular.

<*(((><

Ah well.... Driscoll hasn't been on my list of favorite people lately... But they do have some cool worship services...

SoulBap6 · Apr 11, 2012

Behe's Boy said:
I am going to a SBC in which the pastor seems to really push the gifts of the spirit - mostly healing, dream, visions. Not much by way of toungues - however he doesn't think that one has ceased either. Seems like every Sunday morning I hear reports of the miraculous that people have experienced in the church.

Frankly I find this refreshing - but it hasn't been the norm from my experience in the SBC. Does anyone else go to a similar type church in the SBC?

Just curious...

That is a Oxymoron according to what Baptist are all about, healing we believe, Talking in Tongues such as the pentacostal do?

No, the language that I speak engish but I don't speak Spanish then that would be talking in Tongues. I would need an interpreter and so would those in the church who only knew english.

It might be you would have a Pentacostal posing as a Baptist Preacher?

AndOne · Apr 11, 2012

SoulBap6 said:
It might be you would have a Pentacostal posing as a Baptist Preacher?

He jokingly calls himself a "bapticostal"

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 11, 2012

Osage Bluestem said:
I would not attend one as I am a cessationist. I don't believe that kind of thing belongs in Baptist churches. It should stay contained in pentacostalism.

If cessationist doctrine is really true, was St Benedict (12th Century AD) a liar? His story is that when one of the workers at the Benedictine monastery on Monte Cassino was killed when a wall fell on him, the broken body was brought down to him. He got down and prayed and the man came back to life and went back to work. If cessationism is true, that could never have happened, but it is clearly written in the history books.

All of the church fathers right through to the fourth century AD reported healings and deliverances, and successive movements, including Catholic monks reported the same, right through to the start of the 20th Century. None of these people were Pentecostals, because Pentecostalism didn't start until the early 1900s.

The fact is that tongues, healing, deliverances faded out when the Church became institutionalised, and when there was a great influx of pagans into the church at the end of the Third Century who brought all that influence in. This is why many churches have great ornate buildings and other rituals adapted from the former pagan worship.

So it was the Church itself that caused the miracles to fade away, not God. But every group of people through the centuries who have put Jesus first, have experienced signs, wonders and miracles. All you have to do is to read a bit of Church history.

John Wesley had 250 documented healings during his ministry. He even prayed for his horse and it got healed!

The early Baptists were just as Charismatic as the Pentecostals were. They had healings and demons cast out and all sorts of things. Read the early history of the church. But it became institutionised as successive generations of people joined the demonination who were not as committed to Christ as the ones before and put the institution of the church before Christ, and so the miraculous faded out, just like every other denomination that started with the miraculous.

You will find that in about 25 years, the Pentecostals will be just like the Baptists today - hardly any tongues, healings and miracles; and plenty of cessationists in its congregations. They are going that way already. Many Pentecostal churches no longer practice tongues, deliverances and healings. All they have are the hymn sandwich services that other "traditional" churches have.

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 11, 2012

WinBySurrender said:
No, nor would I. The SBC does not believe in these gifts being active, particularly tongues.

International Mission Board :: News & Information

That would be in complete unity with the institutionalised, pagan influenced Church of the Fourth Century onwards.

WinBySurrender · Apr 11, 2012

Oscarr said:
That would be in complete unity with the institutionalised, pagan influenced Church of the Fourth Century onwards.

As a Pentecostal, you probably see it that way. I, on the other hand, see it as biblical and correct.

Osage Bluestem · Apr 11, 2012

Oscarr said:
If cessationist doctrine is really true, was St Benedict (12th Century AD) a liar? His story is that when one of the workers at the Benedictine monastery on Monte Cassino was killed when a wall fell on him, the broken body was brought down to him. He got down and prayed and the man came back to life and went back to work. If cessationism is true, that could never have happened, but it is clearly written in the history books.

All of the church fathers right through to the fourth century AD reported healings and deliverances, and successive movements, including Catholic monks reported the same, right through to the start of the 20th Century. None of these people were Pentecostals, because Pentecostalism didn't start until the early 1900s.

The fact is that tongues, healing, deliverances faded out when the Church became institutionalised, and when there was a great influx of pagans into the church at the end of the Third Century who brought all that influence in. This is why many churches have great ornate buildings and other rituals adapted from the former pagan worship.

So it was the Church itself that caused the miracles to fade away, not God. But every group of people through the centuries who have put Jesus first, have experienced signs, wonders and miracles. All you have to do is to read a bit of Church history.

John Wesley had 250 documented healings during his ministry. He even prayed for his horse and it got healed!

The early Baptists were just as Charismatic as the Pentecostals were. They had healings and demons cast out and all sorts of things. Read the early history of the church. But it became institutionised as successive generations of people joined the demonination who were not as committed to Christ as the ones before and put the institution of the church before Christ, and so the miraculous faded out, just like every other denomination that started with the miraculous.

You will find that in about 25 years, the Pentecostals will be just like the Baptists today - hardly any tongues, healings and miracles; and plenty of cessationists in its congregations. They are going that way already. Many Pentecostal churches no longer practice tongues, deliverances and healings. All they have are the hymn sandwich services that other "traditional" churches have.

I think Wesley and Benedict were both in deep unbiblical error. So the very mention of their names makes me skeptical before we move any further. Especially Wesley. I think Wesley for instance was used by the devil to corrupt the Christian Church with a false man centered gospel so his experiences if they were even true were probably from the wrong spirit.

Read this:
http://www.gotquestions.org/cessationism.html

Tjc2496 · Apr 11, 2012

Behe's Boy said:
He jokingly calls himself a "bapticostal"

Haha, if I had to call myself something, I'd probably call myself a bapticostal as well

Blessedj01 · Apr 11, 2012

phoenixdem said:
Pentacostals and Baptists just don't play well together. I wouldn't go to a Pentacostal Church.

I went to a pentacostal church once. I got told to get out of my seat twice for people. LOL.

Then I heard about an hour worth of talking about money.

phoenixdem · Apr 12, 2012

Blessedj01 said:
I went to a pentacostal church once. I got told to get out of my seat twice for people. LOL.

Then I heard about an hour worth of talking about money.

Did they talk about faith having to do with how much money is in your bank account?

My wife and I tithe to our church, but the pastor never talks about money.

His_disciple3 · Apr 12, 2012

I attend a SBC who's pastor also believes in the baptism of the Holy Spirit as Scriptures teaches along with the Gifts of the Spirit. however the sba which we belong has stated that if we wanted to part ways with them they wouldn't have any problem with it. so we may not be sbc anymore. it comes down to how we see 1 cor 13 and that tongues will cease and prophecy will fail, when the perfect one comes, but this can not mean when the cannon of scriptures came about, for it also says that knowledge will vanish, and when the cannon came about knowledge didn't vanish, when the perfect one comes is When Jesus comes back, as the prophecy of Joel chapter 2, the same prophecy Peter preaches at pentecost, the last days started with God pouring out His Spirit on all flesh, but it doesn't say that it ends there it says it ends when the sun darkens and the moon turns to blood, on the noteable day that The Lord comes. the last days prophecy started at pentecost. but don't end til Jesus comes back. We are still in those last days!

Blessedj01 · Apr 12, 2012

Not really, but they had one big talk on the offering that went for about 15-20 minutes, then one whole sermon that culminated in a drive to raise millions of dollars for a thousand and one projects for the church.

And there was a segment with a break-down on how much you could give each week in different giving-tiers that would help them achieve this goal.

Not necessarily a bad thing, but yeah. I couldn't help but wonder if they need all this money to achieve their goals. I mean, the church was already massive and had hundreds of well-off looking people in it. I couldn't help but wonder if they'd really just gotten so carried away with monetary ambition and forgotten you don't even need a dollar to walk down the street and preach the gospel...

...but yeah, all theoretical objections. There could be a good aspect to it all.

Here's the info:

"
LIFE has been building a solid foundation for the past 20 years and we are excited for the new ground we will establish in the next 20!
Vision Sunday was the launch of our annual offering campaign- H4 (Heart for the House, Home for the Harvest), which is an offering to help fund our facilities and all that we do in the Kingdom. It is comprised of a one-off cash offering and/or a monthly pledge for a year.
H4 Sunday is on 25 March 2012. This is a day for everyone who calls LIFE home, so make sure you diarise and prioritise it.
By giving to the H4 offering you will be supporting the following initiatives:
Church Facilities, Emergency Appeals, Streetreach, Prison Ministry, LoveBank, A Girl Called Hope, Quantum Sport, Lifeway College, Lifeway Homes Red Frogs, LIFE Conference, Refresh, Sistas Women’s Conference, Kiwi Contax, Get Smart Youth Conference, Fit4Life, Detonate Kids Conference, Watoto, Bible in Schools, Hagar International, Kingdom Initiatives, Christmas Box, Regional Community Makeovers, Hospice, Nursing homes, Breakfast Club , LIFE Leadership Net, Pamper Night, 24/7 Youth (Youth Work), Kidz First Hospital at Middlemore , Cambodian School of Leaders, Cambodian Healthy Church Seminar, Cambodian Transitional Home , CAP at South and Central , REACH (Apostolic leadership)."

H4 2012 &lsaquo; LIFE

Watch the video: LIFE 2012 - Our Kingdom Initiatives on Vimeo

Hupomone10 · Apr 12, 2012

Behe's Boy said:
He jokingly calls himself a "bapticostal"

I admire you for holding to your beliefs, even when not popular. I am not a cessationalist, but not strongly in that position. Like you, it's because there are portions of scripture there. The problem is, I've never seen any depth spiritually come out of the emphasis on the spectacular gifts. There is a lot of good spirited worship and a real heart-felt love for the Lord that seems to be kindled in a lot of people. But the trade off in sins of the flesh is really sad.

I don't want any to misunderstand, I'm not saying charismatics are more sensuously fleshly than non-charismatics, I'm just commenting on what I've observed in those I've known and all the articles I've read over the years.

There seems to be a high degree of emotions and feeling that goes with the charismatic atmosphere, and the flesh thrives on feelings as much or more than it thrives on willfullness and intellectual pride. In fact, there is a good side to the flesh as certainly as there is a bad side. The bad side is characterized by unrighteousness; the good side is characterized by self-effort and self-righteousness. The flesh cannot distinguish between the rush one gets from a strong intense worship experience and the rush one gets by one's besetting sin, whether that be a fantasy of a sensuous woman, or getting good and mad at something or someone. A life governed by sensual feelings, no matter how good they start out being, will eventually make the person weak toward the baser sensuous urges. The flesh is the flesh. This is no doubt why there have been so many cases of sexual sin in the charismatic community. Aside from the doctrine, when one caters to feeling and is governed by feeling, then he is susceptible to many feelings.

Consequently, sometimes we can forfeit a deeper and more victorious life over sin for a life that just feels good. I would rather have Christ leading me in a life characterized by the principles of Romans 6 and 8 and Galatians 2:20, Christ enthroned and Self in the position of death where Christ put him, than a flamboyant exuberant emotional walk that ends up making me attached to the feelings.

5 years ago, my wife and I attended what had been an American Baptist church, now independent but strongly Baptist, but they had just in recent years got a pastor who had a charismatic background. When we left, he was emphasizing gifts more and more, but the preaching was pathetically shallow. The final straw when I decided we had to leave was when I noticed my wife reading her Bible through the sermons on multiple occasions. The pastor cared more about wonderful experiences than he did the depth and victory of his flock.

I hope this doesn't happen at your church; but it is a good thing to watch out for - whether the person cares for depth of growth or just flamboyant exuberance.

God bless,
H.

His_disciple3 · Apr 12, 2012

Blessedj01 said:
I went to a pentacostal church once. I got told to get out of my seat twice for people. LOL.

Then I heard about an hour worth of talking about money.

wow I went to a baptist church once and heard about 45 minutes worth talking about money for three weeks in a row! what's your point, are you saying you never heard them talking about money at a baptist church??

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