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Changing the Bible Sabbath by presumption alone ?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by BobRyan, May 5, 2018.

  1. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Christians [the "Israel of God" [Galatians 6:16 KJB, the "sons of God", the "brethren", for God is no respecter of persons [James 2:1,9 KJB], thus see "Abraham" [while yet in uncircumcision, was the "father" of the "faithful"; Galatians 3:7; Hebrews 11:17-19 KJB] and "Rahab", in James 2:21-26; Hebrews 11:31 KJB, "Job" James 5:11 KJB; "elders of the church" James 5:14, "our members" James 3:6 KJB; "men - made after the similitude of God [reference to Creation and Adam]" James 3:9], the spiritual children of Israel [Jesus; Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; Hebrews 2:9-13; Isaiah 8:8-20; Romans 9:6-8, 23-27 KJB]. These are also mentioned in Revelation 7:1-8, 14:1-5 KJB see below*

    James does not once in the entire epistle refer to the words "Jews" or "Gentiles". He is speaking to the "church", the true children of "Israel" [Jesus].

    *We also see this at the Ending of Scripture, given in the Sons of Israel in the special ordering, and might go something like this:

    Revelation 7:5 KJB - Of the tribe of Juda [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.

    Revelation 7:6 KJB - Of the tribe of Aser [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses [were] sealed twelve thousand.

    Revelation 7:7 KJB - Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.

    Revelation 7:8 KJB - Of the tribe of Zabulon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.​

    13 Tribes; 1 with no inheritance, 1 with double inheritance.

    Revelation 7 Names in Specifically Given Order:

    Judah = “Jew” = “I Will Praise The Lord” [Genesis 29:35 KJB]


    Genesis 29:35 KJB - And she conceived again, and bare a son: and she said, Now will I praise the LORD: therefore she called his name Judah; and left bearing.​

    Reuben = “Behold A Son” = “He Has Looked On Me” [Genesis 29:32 KJB]


    Genesis 29:32 KJB - And Leah conceived, and bare a son, and she called his name Reuben: for she said, Surely the LORD hath looked upon my affliction; now therefore my husband will love me.​

    Gad = “Troop” = “Given Good Fortune” [Genesis 30:11 KJB]


    Genesis 30:11 KJB - And Leah said, A troop cometh: and she called his name Gad.​

    Asher = “Happy” = “Happy Am I” [Genesis 30:13 KJB]


    Genesis 30:13 KJB - And Leah said, Happy am I, for the daughters will call me blessed: and she called his name Asher.​

    Naphtali = “Wrestling” = “My Wrestling” [Genesis 30:8 KJB]


    Genesis 30:8 KJB - And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali.​

    Manasseh = “Causing To Forget” = “Is Making Me To Forget” [Genesis 41:51 KJB]


    Genesis 41:51 KJB - And Joseph called the name of the firstborn Manasseh: For God, [said he], hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house.​

    Simeon = “Heard” = “God Hears Me” [Genesis 29:33 KJB]


    Genesis 29:33 KJB - And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, Because the LORD hath heard that I [was] hated, he hath therefore given me this [son] also: and she called his name Simeon.​

    Levi ** = “Joined To” = “Is Attached To Me” [Genesis 29:34 KJB]


    Genesis 29:34 KJB - And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, Now this time will my husband be joined unto me, because I have born him three sons: therefore was his name called Levi.​

    Issachar = “There Is Recompense” = “He Has Purchased Me” [Genesis 30:18 KJB]


    Genesis 30:18 KJB - And Leah said, God hath given me my hire, because I have given my maiden to my husband: and she called his name Issachar.​

    Zebulun = “Exalted” = “A Dwelling” [Genesis 30:20 KJB]


    Genesis 30:20 KJB - And Leah said, God hath endued me [with] a good dowry; now will my husband dwell with me, because I have born him six sons: and she called his name Zebulun.​

    Ephraim * = “Double Ash Heap” = “I Shall Be Doubly Fruitful” [Genesis 41:52 KJB]


    Genesis 41:52 KJB - And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.​

    Joseph = “Jehovah Was Added” = “God Will Add To Me” [Genesis 30:24 KJB]


    Genesis 30:24 KJB - And she called his name Joseph; and said, The LORD shall add to me another son​

    Benjamin = “Son Of The Right Hand” = “Son Of His Right Hand” [Genesis 35:17,18 KJB]


    Genesis 35:17 KJB - And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.

    Genesis 35:18 KJB - And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.​

    Dan * = “A Judge” [Genesis 30:6 KJB]


    Genesis 30:6 KJB - And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.​

    And therefore, by the special list given in Revelation [Juda, Reuben, Gad, Aser, Nepthalim, Manasses, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zabulon, Joseph, Benjamin] it is seen that the meaning is:

    I Will Praise The LORD {JEHOVAH} (Judah) [for] He Has Looked On Me (Reuben) [and] Granted Good Fortune (Gad). Happy Am I (Asher) [because] My Wrestling (Naphtali), God Is Making Me To Forget (Manasseh). God Hears Me (Simeon) [and] Is Attached To Me (Levi). He has Purchased Me (Issachar) A Dwelling (Zebulun) [and] Will Add To Me (Joseph) The Son Of His Right Hand (Benjamin).​

    Or​

    Now I Will Praise The LORD {JEHOVAH} (Judah) [for] Surely The LORD Hath Looked Upon My Affliction (Reuben) [and] Granted Good Fortune (Gad) [therefore] Happy Am I (Asher) [even though] With Great Wrestlings Have I Wrestled (Naphtali) [but] God Is Making Me To Forget All My Toil (Manasseh) [for] the LORD Hath Heard Me (Simeon) [being] Joined Unto Me (Levi) [and] He Has Purchased Me (Issachar) [wanting] To Dwell With Me (Zebulun) [and] The LORD Shall Add To Me (Joseph) [also] The Son Of His Right Hand (Benjamin).
    The same can be done for Genesis:

    Adam – Red, The Living Soul [through Blood], A Unique Son of God


    Genesis 2:7 KJB - And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

    Eve – The Mother of all Living [Life-Giver]


    Genesis 3:20 KJB - And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.​

    Abel – Breath, Briefly, a Keeper of the Sheep [Mourning, Lamenting]


    Genesis 4:2 KJB - And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.​

    Cain – Possession, a Tiller of the Ground [Lance, Spear]


    Genesis 4:1 KJB - And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.​

    Seth – Compensation [setting, in the place of [Abel], appointed]


    Genesis 4:25 KJB - And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.​

    Enos – Man [mortal man]


    Genesis 4:26 KJB - And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.​

    Cainan - Possession


    Genesis 5:9 KJB - And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:​

    Mahalaleel – Praise of God


    Genesis 5:12 KJB - And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel:​

    Jared – Descent [coming down]


    Genesis 5:15 KJB - And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:​

    Enoch – Dedicated [Who walked with God, and was not, for God took Him]


    Genesis 5:18 KJB - And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:​

    Methuselah – Man of the Dart [His Death Shall bring]


    Genesis 5:21 KJB - And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:​

    Lamech – Powerful [Strength]


    Genesis 5:25 KJB - And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:​

    Noah – Rest [Comfort]


    Genesis 5:29 KJB - And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.​

    What do these names say to us, in regards the plan of redemption and of the character of God?

    God, through His Unique Son [Adam, Red/blood], Gives Life [Eve], being pierced [Cain], and in the place of [Seth] mourning/sorrow [Abel], for Mortal Man [Enos], Obtained [Cainan], the Praise of God [Mahalaleel], for He Descended/Came Down [Jared], Dedicated/Walked With God and was not found, for God took Him [Enoch], and Whose Death Would Bring [Methuselah], Strength/Vital Force [Lamech], and Rest/Comfort [Noah], so declaring His Good Name [Shem].
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  2. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Well if you are going to quote an Atheistic source [Wicked-pedia], consider that it does say, "The Book of Kings states several times that the entire people of the Kingdom of Israel had been taken into exile by the Assyrians.", and notice that the two 'scholars' being referenced were a "Rabbi" [Umberto Cassuto - Umberto Cassuto - Wikipedia] and another "Rabbi", his brother in law [Elia Samuele Artom - Elia Samuele Artom (1887-1965), scholar - 4 Enoch: The Online Encyclopedia of Second Temple Judaism].

    Notice that wicked-pedia states [citing no-one as usual, more than likely critical scholars] - "Some [WHO???] believe that the Books of Chronicles information about the fate of the Northern Kingdom adds up differently. What is often cited is 2nd Chronicles, Chapter 15 ..." and yet is states clearly: "However, this is a mis-characterization of the events. Since those scriptures clearly declare that it was at a time when the Northern Kingdom was still intact, this happened in an era before the Assyrian Captivity."

    In the matter of "Samaria" the captial city, the number on the cuneiform tablet, only refers to that single captial city: "Assyrian cuneiform states that 27,290 captives were taken from Samaria,[4] the capital of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, by the hand of Sargon II."

    2 Chronicles 30 & 31, ties to 2 Chronicles 29 and its timeline:

    2 Chronicles 29:1 KJB - Hezekiah began to reign when he was five and twenty years old, and he reigned nine and twenty years in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Abijah, the daughter of Zechariah.

    2 Chronicles 29:3 KJB - He in the first year of his reign, in the first month, opened the doors of the house of the LORD, and repaired them.

    2 Chronicles 30:1 KJB - And Hezekiah sent to all Israel and Judah, and wrote letters also to Ephraim and Manasseh, that they should come to the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, to keep the passover unto the LORD God of Israel.

    2 Chronicles 30:11 KJB - Nevertheless divers of Asher and Manasseh and of Zebulun humbled themselves, and came to Jerusalem.

    2 Chronicles 30:15 KJB - Then they killed the passover on the fourteenth day of the second month: and the priests and the Levites were ashamed, and sanctified themselves, and brought in the burnt offerings into the house of the LORD.

    2 Chronicles 30:18 KJB - For a multitude of the people, even many of Ephraim, and Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet did they eat the passover otherwise than it was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, The good LORD pardon every one

    2 Chronicles 31:7 KJB - In the third month they began to lay the foundation of the heaps, and finished them in the seventh month.

    1st year Hezekiah (Judah) = 3rd Year of Hosea (Israel) [roughly] - 2 Kings 18:1 KJB; and 2 Chronicles 29:1 onward through 2 Chronicles 31 KJB

    Of course there are still tribes left, they hadn't been taken away yet.

    4th year Hezekiah (Judah) = 7th Year of Hosea (Israel) - 2 Kings 18:9 KJB

    7th year Hezekiah (Judah) = 9th year of Hosea (Israel) when Samaria was taken - 2 Kings 17:6 KJB

    Flavius Josephus wrote in Antiquities [Whiston J. AJ 9.14.1; and continuing]:

    "... [277] WHEN Shalmaneser, the king of Assyria, had it told him, that [Hoshea] the king of Israel had sent privately to So, the king of Egypt, desiring his assistance against him, he was very angry, and made an expedition against Samaria, in the seventh year of the reign of Hoshea; but when he was not admitted [into the city] by the king, 1 he besieged Samaria three years, and took it by force in the ninth year of the reign of Hoshea, and in the seventh year of Hezekiah, king of Jerusalem, and quite demolished the government of the Israelites, and transplanted all the people into Media and Persia among whom he took king Hoshea alive; and when he had removed these people out of this their land he transplanted other nations out of Cuthah, a place so called, (for there is [still] a river of that name in Persia,) into Samaria, and into the country of the Israelites. So the ten tribes of the Israelites were removed out of Judea nine hundred and forty-seven years after their forefathers were come out of the land of Egypt, and possessed themselves of the country, but eight hundred years after Joshua had been their leader, and, as I have already observed, two hundred and forty years, seven months, and seven days after they had revolted from Rehoboam, the grandson of David, and had given the kingdom to Jeroboam. And such a conclusion overtook the Israelites, when they had transgressed the laws, and would not hearken to the prophets, who foretold that this calamity would come upon them, if they would not leave off their evil doings. What gave birth to these evil doings, was that sedition which they raised against Rehoboam, the grandson of David, when they set up Jeroboam his servant to be their king, when, by sinning against God, and bringing them to imitate his bad example, made God to be their enemy, while Jeroboam underwent that punishment which he justly deserved. ..." - Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book 9, Whiston chapter 14, Whiston section 1
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  3. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    According to the actual historical document, the Bible [KJB], we can know that the Kings of Assyria took much more than just those in the capital city of Samaria, as it is written:

    The Bible says clearly:

    Deuteronomy 28:62 KJB - And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God.

    Deuteronomy 28:63 KJB - And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.

    Deuteronomy 28:64 KJB - And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

    Deuteronomy 28:65 KJB - And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:

    Deuteronomy 28:66 KJB - And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:

    Deuteronomy 28:67 KJB - In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were even! and at even thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.

    Deuteronomy 28:68 KJB - And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.

    1 Kings 14:15 KJB - For the LORD shall smite Israel, as a reed is shaken in the water, and he shall root up Israel out of this good land, which he gave to their fathers, and shall scatter them beyond the river, because they have made their groves, provoking the LORD to anger.

    1 Kings 14:16 KJB - And he shall give Israel up because of the sins of Jeroboam, who did sin, and who made Israel to sin.​

    2 Kings 17:5 KJB - Then the king of Assyria came up throughout all the land, and went up to Samaria, and besieged it three years.

    2 Kings 17:6 KJB - In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.

    2 Kings 17:18 KJB - Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.

    2 Kings 17:20 KJB - And the LORD rejected all the seed of Israel, and afflicted them, and delivered them into the hand of spoilers, until he had cast them out of his sight.

    2 Kings 17:23 KJB - Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.

    2 Kings 17:24 KJB - And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof.

    2 Kings 17:25 KJB - And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them.

    2 Kings 17:26 KJB - Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land.

    2 Kings 17:27 KJB - Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land.

    2 Kings 17:28 KJB - Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD.

    2 Kings 17:29 KJB - Howbeit every nation made gods of their own, and put them in the houses of the high places which the Samaritans had made, every nation in their cities wherein they dwelt.

    2 Kings 17:30 KJB - And the men of Babylon made Succothbenoth, and the men of Cuth made Nergal, and the men of Hamath made Ashima,

    2 Kings 17:31 KJB - And the Avites made Nibhaz and Tartak, and the Sepharvites burnt their children in fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim.

    2 Kings 17:32 KJB - So they feared the LORD, and made unto themselves of the lowest of them priests of the high places, which sacrificed for them in the houses of the high places.

    2 Kings 17:33 KJB - They feared the LORD, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence.

    2 Kings 17:34 KJB - Unto this day they do after the former manners: they fear not the LORD, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the law and commandment which the LORD commanded the children of Jacob, whom he named Israel;

    2 Kings 18:9 KJB - And it came to pass in the fourth year of king Hezekiah, which was the seventh year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Shalmaneser king of Assyria came up against Samaria, and besieged it.

    2 Kings 18:10 KJB - And at the end of three years they took it: even in the sixth year of Hezekiah, that is the ninth year of Hoshea king of Israel, Samaria was taken.

    2 Kings 18:11 KJB - And the king of Assyria did carry away Israel unto Assyria, and put them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes:

    2 Kings 18:13 KJB - Now in the fourteenth year of king Hezekiah did Sennacherib king of Assyria come up against all the fenced cities of Judah, and took them.​

    My final Authority is scripture [KJB] and it disagrees with Wicked-pedia.

    I will believe the Bible [KJB] over Wicked-pedia. Thank you.
     
  4. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Name them by citation, with their pages.
     
  5. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Jesus died for all [every man [mankind] in the whole world, from Adam the first, unto the last of mankind] - Luke 2:10,14; John 3:16, 4:42, 12:32; 2 Corinthians 5:14,15; 1 Timothy 1:15, 2:6; Hebrews 2:9; 1 John 2:2, 4:14, etc, etc... KJB. The difference is in their response to it.

    Again, this entire lost world was the one lost sheep [Luke 15:4-7 KJB]. Jesus died for all of them.

    Some responded another way, becoming goats [which was symbolic of sin].

    Saved
    vs lost. The 1000 year reign of Christ is in Heaven, not Earth [wicked/lost are dead and in the graves at this time]. The reign of for ever and ever will be upon the Earth made new after the 1000 years [and there is no wicked left, having been annihilated in the second death/lake of fire].

    Here are the texts of Revelation 20:1-6 KJB cited:

    Revelation 20:1 KJB - And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

    Revelation 20:2 KJB - And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

    Revelation 20:3 KJB - And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

    Revelation 20:4 KJB - And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    Revelation 20:5 KJB - But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    Revelation 20:6 KJB - Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.​

    Revelation 20:7 KJB - And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,​

    Please notice, that in these texts [Revelation 20:1-6 KJB], there is no where written that either Jesus, or the “saints” (or “satan” for that matter), shall “reign upon the earth” for 1,000 years, but simply says [vss. 4,6] that Jesus and the saints reigned “a thousand years”. The location of this 1,000 reign is nowhere stated to be “upon the earth” in these, or any passages of scripture [KJB]. One should very carefully look for themselves. It also is very clearly written that “satan” himself was not reigning during this “thousand years”, but is “bound” and “shut … up” with a “seal” placed “upon him”.

    The phrase “the day of the Lord” [Isaiah 2:12, 13:6,9, 34:8; Jeremiah 46:10; Lamentations 2:22; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31, 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 1:15; Zephaniah 1:7,8,14,18, 2:2,3; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi 4:5; Acts 2:20; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Corinthians 1:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Peter 3:10 KJB], is a direct reference to the “thousand years” [Revelation 20:2,3,4,5,6,7 KJB, see also Isaiah 24:22 KJB, “many days”], which is the final “day”, the 7th day – the great Sabbath, of the great week “with the Lord” [2 Peter 3:8 KJB].

    The second Advent of Jesus Christ, wherein the “saints” are “caught up together … in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air” [1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Revelation 20:1-6 KJB] is but the beginning of the “thousand years” or “the day of the Lord”, while the third Advent of Jesus Christ [Zechariah 14:1-21; Revelation 20:7-10 KJB] is the ending of the “thousand years” or “the day of the Lord”, after which the finally impenitent shall be utterly destroyed in the second death, and finally the “New Heavens” and the “New Earth” are recreated [Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1 KJB].

    Revelation 19-22 KJB, is parallel to Isaiah 24 KJB, and so also connected to Leviticus 16:1-34, 23:26-32 KJB.

    The location of this “reign” of Jesus and the saints, for “a thousand years” is never said to be on the plague wracked, utterly sin polluted and totally cursed and devastated “earth”, wherein even the upper heaven [atmosphere] is burned away by the second Advent [Genesis 3:17, 5:29, 8:21; Isaiah 34:4; 2 Peter 3:10-12; Revelation 6:14; 11:19, 15:1,6,8, 16:9,17-21, 18:4,8 21:9, 22:18 KJB]. So likewise for the passages of “Isaiah 2, 11, 65; Amos 9; Zechariah 14”. Read prayerfully and carefully for oneself. Where then is the “thousand year” reign of Jesus and the saints to be? It is to be in Heaven, the “third” [2 Corinthians 12:2 KJB].

    The “reign upon the earth” comes after 1,000 years [Revelation 20:2,3,4,5,6,7 KJB], for the “saints” must be both resurrected and/or translated, glorified, and brought back to Heaven [John 14:1-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17, etc KJB] at the Second Advent and First Great Resurrection, to “reign” in Heaven, for 1,000 years [Revelation 20:4,5a,6 KJB] going over the record books of the lost [1 Corinthians 6:2,3 KJB]:

    [1] The “thousand years” reign “in Heaven” [Psalms 50:5; Matthew 5:3,8,10,12, 6:20, 13:30, 24:31; Mark 10:21, 13:27; Luke 6:23, 18:22, 23:43; John 14:2-3, 17:24; Colossians 1:5; Hebrews 10:34; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 7:9, 14:3, 19:1 KJB; “Paradise”, Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4; Revelation 2:7 KJB] with Christ Jesus [1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 20:6 KJB] and

    [2] The “reign on earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth; 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17, 66:22; Revelation 21:1 KJB] that lasts “forever and ever” [Revelation 5:10 KJB; “meek inherit earth” [“made new”, not this sin polluted Earth], Psalms 37:9,11,34; Proverbs 11:31; Isaiah 25:8, 65:21; Daniel 7:27; Matthew 5:5; Revelation 5:10 KJB].
    As for the word "bottomless pit", as found in the GNT TR of Revelation 9:1,2,11, 11:7, 17:8, 20:1, it is the Koine Greek "αβυσσου" [abussou, or abyssou], in GNT TR of Revelation 20:3, it is again "αβυσσον" [abusson, or abysson], which in the transliterated English is the word "abyss", which according to the first use in Genesis, means the "deep", being in "darkness", and "without form and void [empty of/having no life]", thus is associated with a dark chaotic wilderness/desert [water or earth], symbolic of death/no life.

    I can cite both the KJB, GNT-TR and so called LXX sources on that word as necessary. The earth will be a desolate wilderness [Isaiah 34:13 KJB] for "dragons" [symbol of the devil] and "owls" [unclean night birds, symbolic of fallen angels]


    Presently, He reigns from the Throne of Grace, over the Kingdom of Grace [Heart]:

    Hebrews 4:16 KJB - Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.​

    Yet, there is a time, coming, when He will reign upon the Throne of His glory:

    Matthew 19:28 KJB - And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Matthew 25:31 KJB - When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:​

    So, coming to the texts:

    1 Corinthians 15:20 KJB - But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

    1 Corinthians 15:21 KJB - For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

    1 Corinthians 15:22 KJB - For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

    1 Corinthians 15:23 KJB - But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    1 Corinthians 15:24 KJB - Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

    1 Corinthians 15:25 KJB - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

    1 Corinthians 15:26 KJB - The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
    These passages speak of the saved and the lost. Not two folds of good sheep. It speaks of two groups alright, the "sheep [spiritual Israel, Jews/Gentiles, spiritually circumcised of heart]" and 'sheep of the devil' [lost/enemies of the cross of Christ spiritually UN-circumcised of heart] [John 10:26 KJB - But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.]

    Ezekiel 34:17 KJB - And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.

    Matthew 25:32 KJB - And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

    Matthew 25:33 KJB - And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    Satan is the chief "goat" - Leviticus 16:20-22; Revelation 20:1-3 KJB.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  6. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    This is the rare case where it does. The exchange is more clear in Mark 7:27.

    :27 "But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs."

    The allusion is clearly about the downtrodden Israelites living as second class citizens in that region, not a pet dog. In this case the woman's daughter was the metaphorical "puppy". Begging Jesus for her healing was asking him for but 'crumbs' compared to how she perceived the blessings afforded the Jews: the children.



    The woman wasn't a Jew; and the Greek word used by Jesus and by her wasn't the usually deprecating term used to describe people of questionable character. It simply meant a little dog or a puppy.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  7. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    James 1:1 is all the citation needed.

    "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting."

    While many went north after the Assyrian captivity many of the tribal families were still in the region, probably in the area of Turkey today. Some certainly migrated back to Samaria. There are strong indications that many settled in Galilee, where Jesus began his ministry to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel".
     
  8. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    Revelation 20 verse 4 is the first resurrection, not verse 5.​
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Comparing her to a dog (vs Jews as "children" was something Jesus initiated - the text says she was from that region and neither Jesus nor the woman in anyway show that they think she was not a gentile. Nor do the disciples show any indication of it -- nor does Matthew indicate she was not a gentile.


    Matthew 15

    The Syrophoenician Woman
    21 Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.” 23 But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, “Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us.” 24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” 26 And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” 28 Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed at once.


    1. A Caananite - not an Israelite
    2. Both Jesus and the woman refer to her nationality/race as "dog" as compared to Israelite "children"
    3. Jesus goes out of his way to go to the gentile district of Tyre and the woman is not "from Israel but living in Tyre" rather she is "from that region" .
    4. Jesus' argument against the woman is that she is not "the lost sheep of Israel" and that Heis only sent to them -- not her.​
    human..vs..pet dog.

    But it is the woman that brings up the idea of the "pet" dog that eats crumbs that fall from the master's table.

    'dogs' in general is a phrase used in both OT and NT that hardly ever means "your pet puppy".

    Not even once does NT or OT refer to Jews outside of Israel "as dogs" as we all know.

    Instead of 'dogs' -- here is how the NT authors refer to a Jew outside of Israel

    Acts 18:24
    "Now a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures, came to Ephesus."

    Not even once does NT or OT refer to Jews outside of Israel "as dogs" as we all know.

    You realize of course that your statement reads much more like "preference" than exegesis.

    In fact it would be the only case in all of scripture where "dogs" = "puppy... Israelite living outside of Israel"..
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Matthew 15

    The Syrophoenician Woman
    21 Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.” 23 But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, “Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us.” 24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” 26 And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” 28 Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed at once.


    1. A Caananite - not an Israelite
    2. Both Jesus and the woman refer to her nationality/race as "dog" as compared to Israelite "children"
    3. Jesus goes out of his way to go to the gentile district of Tyre and the woman is not "from Israel but living in Tyre" rather she is "from that region" .
    4. Jesus' argument against the woman is that she is not "the lost sheep of Israel" and that Heis only sent to them -- not her.​
    human..vs..pet dog.

    But it is the woman that brings up the idea of the "pet" dog that eats crumbs that fall from the master's table.

    'dogs' in general is a phrase used in both OT and NT that hardly ever means "your pet puppy".

    Not even once does NT or OT refer to Jews outside of Israel "as dogs" as we all know.

    Instead of 'dogs' -- here is how the NT authors refer to a Jew outside of Israel

    Acts 18:24
    "Now a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures, came to Ephesus."

    Not even once does NT or OT refer to Jews outside of Israel "as dogs" as we all know.

    Here again nothing at all about "dogs being family pets" or "dogs being the name given to Jews living outside of Israel".

    I fail to see how this is making your case.

    No reference at all to that idea in the text.



    Nothing in the text says that the term "dog's" is some sort of well established Bible metaphor for "Jews living outside of Israel" -- you keep insisting on that insert without showing even one case where the text tells us this is what is meant.

    How in the world does that rise above the level of mere "preference"??

    I am surprised to see you say that - since that is my point. Did I misunderstand your view here?

    If your claim now is that gentiles were being compared to little dogs in the discussion they were having -- I would not doubt that at all. Since "Israel" is being contrasted to gentiles as -- "Children vs dogs"

    But I thought you were arguing the opposite point.
     
  11. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    James 5:14 KJB - Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
     
  12. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Again:

    Revelation 20:1 KJB - And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

    Jesus Christ, the Strong man [Luke 11:22; Leviticus 16:20-22 KJB] comes down [does not touch the sin polluted earth, but remains above it], see Revelation 19-22 KJB, is parallel to Isaiah 24 KJB, and so also connected to Leviticus 16:1-34, 23:26-32 KJB. [since devils can break physical chains, Mark 5:3,4; Luke 8:29, but not the chains of circumstances that God will lay upon them]
    Revelation 20:2 KJB - And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

    Satan is bound on earth which God will have made desolate by the destruction of the 7 last plagues, mighty earthquake, etc. and the Sun and moon will have been moved [shaken] out of their places: Jeremiah 4:23-28, Jeremiah 25:15-38; Zephaniah 1:2-3,14-18; Isaiah 2:6-22; Isaiah 11:4; Isaiah 24:1-6,17-22; Isaiah 34:1-17, etc KJB

    All the wicked who are alive at Jesus' coming are slain by that brightness of His own glory, coming in His Father's glory and in the glory of all the holy angels of heaven:

    2 Thessalonians 2:8 KJB - And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    Satan, having no more mankind to tempt [until after the 1,000 years, when all the wicked are resurrected [Revelation 20:7-9 KJB]] is in this 'bound' [Psalms 73:6; Lamentation 3:7 KJB] condition for 1,000 years to consider the work. He is mandated to sabbath in that sense, so that the land of sin may rest, as it had in the days of Babylon, when Israel sinned.

    The saints are caught up to meet Christ Jesus, and leave this brokoen world, for 1000 years:

    1 Thessalonians 4:15 KJB - For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

    1 Thessalonians 4:16 KJB - For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    1 Thessalonians 4:17 KJB - Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    The first Great resurrection [taking place after the special resurrection], which is only composed of saints, takes place at Jesus second Advent, which begins the 1,000 years. See Revelation 20:4; Daniel 7:22b KJB
    Revelation 20:3 KJB - And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

    Satan and his angels are thus stuck on this deslate earth for 1000 years in darkness [sun and moon having been moved by the shaking of the heavens].

    Satan cannot deceive any of the nations, for the righteous nations left with Christ Jesus [for 1000 years, entering into the judgment of the wicked angels, world; Psalms 149:1-9; 1 Corinthians 6:2,3 KJB, etc], and all the wicked nations are slain by the brightness of Jesus coming. Isaiah 24:3-12,19-21, etc KJB; etc.

    Satan will deceive again those wicked nations after the 1000 years [the "day" of the LORD; Psalms 90:4; 2 Peter 3:8 KJB], when they are resurrected to face the great white throne judgment, see Revelation 20:7-9;

    Isaiah 24:22 KJB - And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
    Revelation 20:4 KJB - And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    Daniel 7:22 KJB - Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

    Revelation is drawing from Daniel, and notice, that after the saints are in Heaven, they have judgment handed to them for 1000 years; Psalms 149:1-9; 1 Corinthians 6:2,3 KJB.

    These live and reign with Christ in Heaven [John 14:1-3 KJB, etc] for 1000 years. All of the wicked [except for satan and his angels] are dead on earth.

    "The time came" in Daniel 7:22, is the end of the 1000 years, when the Saints will inherit the earth made new, after the complete eradication of all wicked, including satan and his angels. Revelation 20:9-10,13-15 KJB.
    Revelation 20:5 KJB - But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    Notice the connection in Revelation 20:4 KJB, to those who were "slain" and yet "lived" and then "reigned". How could they except that there was, as mentioned, a Great resurrection? That is the First resurrection [of the Just/Life] as it is written:

    John 5:29 KJB - And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
    Notice that the "rest of the dead", are the wicked. They remain dead until after the 1000 years, as Isaiah 24:22 "after many days" they shall be "visited". This is the 3rd Advent spoken of in Zechariah 14:4, etc.
    Revelation 20:6 KJB - Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.​
     
  13. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    It is the only case, that's why I cited it. Jesus and woman were engaged in a 'word play'. The term 'puppy' is a metaphor that both understood.

    Isn't it odd that Jesus, who was sent only to the ten tribes would go to a strictly gentile region for the seemingly sole purpose of ministering to a gentile?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  14. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    You left out the word "behold" from verse 22, which is inserted in narratives because something important or unusual is going down and the reader should pay close attention. And what is important and unusual is that Jesus is telling his disciples that this woman is an Israelite. Otherwise there would be nothing unusual about the story.​
     
  15. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is the only 'place' in Matthew 15:26,27 ["κυναριοις", "κυναρια"] and in Mark 7:27,28 ["κυναριοις", "κυναρια"] KJB, and it is a diminiutive derivative [G2952] of "dog" [G2965; H3611; see also the so-called LXX uses of G2965, beginning in Exodus 22:31 "kuni", "kunes", "kunwn", "kunas", "kusin", etc], even as 'little crumbs' are mentioned. Maybe you might find this interesting:

    "... After the encounter with the Pharisees, Jesus withdrew from Capernaum, and crossing Galilee, repaired to the hill country on the borders of Phoenicia. Looking westward, He could see, spread out upon the plain below, the ancient cities of Tyre and Sidon, with their heathen temples, their magnificent palaces and marts of trade, and the harbors filled with shipping. Beyond was the blue expanse of the Mediterranean, over which the messengers of the gospel were to bear its glad tidings to the centers of the world's great empire. But the time was not yet. The work before Him now was to prepare His disciples for their mission. In coming to this region He hoped to find the retirement He had failed to secure at Bethsaida. Yet this was not His only purpose in taking this journey. {DA 399.1}

    "Behold, a Canaanitish woman came out from those borders, and cried, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, Thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil." Matthew 15:22, R. V. The people of this district were of the old Canaanite race. They were idolaters, and were despised and hated by the Jews. To this class belonged the woman who now came to Jesus. She was a heathen, and was therefore excluded from the advantages which the Jews daily enjoyed. There [400] were many Jews living among the Phoenicians, and the tidings of Christ's work had penetrated to this region. Some of the people had listened to His words and had witnessed His wonderful works. This woman had heard of the prophet, who, it was reported, healed all manner of diseases. As she heard of His power, hope sprang up in her heart. Inspired by a mother's love, she determined to present her daughter's case to Him. It was her resolute purpose to bring her affliction to Jesus. He must heal her child. She had sought help from the heathen gods, but had obtained no relief. And at times she was tempted to think, What can this Jewish teacher do for me? But the word had come, He heals all manner of diseases, whether those who come to Him for help are rich or poor. She determined not to lose her only hope. {DA 399.2}

    Christ knew this woman's situation. He knew that she was longing to see Him, and He placed Himself in her path. By ministering to her sorrow, He could give a living representation of the lesson He designed to teach. For this He had brought His disciples into this region. He desired them to see the ignorance existing in cities and villages close to the land of Israel. The people who had been given every opportunity to understand the truth were without a knowledge of the needs of those around them. No effort was made to help souls in darkness. The partition wall which Jewish pride had erected, shut even the disciples from sympathy with the heathen world. But these barriers were to be broken down. {DA 400.1}

    Christ did not immediately reply to the woman's request. He received this representative of a despised race as the Jews would have done. In this He designed that His disciples should be impressed with the cold and heartless manner in which the Jews would treat such a case, as evinced by His reception of the woman, and the compassionate manner in which He would have them deal with such distress, as manifested by His subsequent granting of her petition. {DA 400.2}

    But although Jesus did not reply, the woman did not lose faith. As He passed on, as if not hearing her, she followed Him, continuing her supplications. Annoyed by her importunities, the disciples asked Jesus to send her away. They saw that their Master treated her with indifference, and they therefore supposed that the prejudice of the Jews against the Canaanites was pleasing to Him. But it was a pitying Saviour to whom the woman made her plea, and in answer to the request of the disciples, Jesus said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house [401] of Israel." Although this answer appeared to be in accordance with the prejudice of the Jews, it was an implied rebuke to the disciples, which they afterward understood as reminding them of what He had often told them,--that He came to the world to save all who would accept Him. {DA 400.3}

    The woman urged her case with increased earnestness, bowing at Christ's feet, and crying, "Lord, help me." Jesus, still apparently rejecting her entreaties, according to the unfeeling prejudice of the Jews, answered, "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." This was virtually asserting that it was not just to lavish the blessings brought to the favored people of God upon strangers and aliens from Israel. This answer would have utterly discouraged a less earnest seeker. But the woman saw that her opportunity had come. Beneath the apparent refusal of Jesus, she saw a compassion that He could not hide. "Truth, Lord," she answered, "yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table." While the children of the household eat at the father's table, even the dogs are not left unfed. They have a right to the crumbs that fall from the table abundantly supplied. So while there were many blessings given to Israel, was there not also a blessing for her? She was looked upon as a dog, and had she not then a dog's claim to a crumb from His bounty? {DA 401.1}

    Jesus had just departed from His field of labor because the scribes and Pharisees were seeking to take His life. They murmured and complained. They manifested unbelief and bitterness, and refused the salvation so freely offered them. Here Christ meets one of an unfortunate and despised race, that has not been favored with the light of God's word; yet she yields at once to the divine influence of Christ, and has implicit faith in His ability to grant the favor she asks. She begs for the crumbs that fall from the Master's table. If she may have the privilege of a dog, she is willing to be regarded as a dog. She has no national or religious prejudice or pride to influence her course, and she immediately acknowledges Jesus as the Redeemer, and as being able to do all that she asks of Him. {DA 401.2}

    The Saviour is satisfied. He has tested her faith in Him. By His dealings with her, He has shown that she who has been regarded as an outcast from Israel is no longer an alien, but a child in God's household. As a child it is her privilege to share in the Father's gifts. Christ now grants her request, and finishes the lesson to the disciples. Turning to her with a look of pity and love, He says, "O woman, great is thy faith: [402] be it unto thee even as thou wilt." From that hour her daughter became whole. The demon troubled her no more. The woman departed, acknowledging her Saviour, and happy in the granting of her prayer. {DA 401.3}

    This was the only miracle that Jesus wrought while on this journey. It was for the performance of this act that He went to the borders of Tyre and Sidon. He wished to relieve the afflicted woman, and at the same time to leave an example in His work of mercy toward one of a despised people for the benefit of His disciples when He should no longer be with them. He wished to lead them from their Jewish exclusiveness to be interested in working for others besides their own people. {DA 402.1}

    Jesus longed to unfold the deep mysteries of the truth which had been hid for ages, that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs with the Jews, and "partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel." Ephesians 3:6. This truth the disciples were slow to learn, and the divine Teacher gave them lesson upon lesson. In rewarding the faith of the centurion at Capernaum, and preaching the gospel to the inhabitants of Sychar, He had already given evidence that He did not share the intolerance of the Jews. But the Samaritans had some knowledge of God; and the centurion had shown kindness to Israel. Now Jesus brought the disciples in contact with a heathen, whom they regarded as having no reason above any of her people, to expect favor from Him. He would give an example of how such a one should be treated. The disciples had thought that He dispensed too freely the gifts of His grace. He would show that His love was not to be circumscribed to race or nation. {DA 402.2}

    When He said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel," He stated the truth, and in His work for the Canaanite woman He was fulfilling His commission. This woman was one of the lost sheep that Israel should have rescued. It was their appointed work, the work which they had neglected, that Christ was doing. {DA 402.3}

    This act opened the minds of the disciples more fully to the labor that lay before them among the Gentiles. They saw a wide field of usefulness outside of Judea. They saw souls bearing sorrows unknown to those more highly favored. Among those whom they had been taught to despise were souls longing for help from the mighty Healer, hungering for the light of truth, which had been so abundantly given to the Jews. {DA 402.4}

    Afterward, when the Jews turned still more persistently from the disciples, because they declared Jesus to be the Saviour of the world, [403] and when the partition wall between Jew and Gentile was broken down by the death of Christ, this lesson, and similar ones which pointed to the gospel work unrestricted by custom or nationality, had a powerful influence upon the representatives of Christ, in directing their labors. {DA 402.5}

    The Saviour's visit to Phoenicia and the miracle there performed had a yet wider purpose. Not alone for the afflicted woman, nor even for His disciples and those who received their labors, was the work accomplished; but also "that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through His name." John 20:31. The same agencies that barred men away from Christ eighteen hundred years ago are at work today. The spirit which built up the partition wall between Jew and Gentile is still active. Pride and prejudice have built strong walls of separation between different classes of men. Christ and His mission have been misrepresented, and multitudes feel that they are virtually shut away from the ministry of the gospel. But let them not feel that they are shut away from Christ. There are no barriers which man or Satan can erect but that faith can penetrate. {DA 403.1}

    In faith the woman of Phoenicia flung herself against the barriers that had been piled up between Jew and Gentile. Against discouragement, regardless of appearances that might have led her to doubt, she trusted the Saviour's love. It is thus that Christ desires us to trust in Him. The blessings of salvation are for every soul. Nothing but his own choice can prevent any man from becoming a partaker of the promise in Christ by the gospel. {DA 403.2}

    Caste is hateful to God. He ignores everything of this character. In His sight the souls of all men are of equal value. He "hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after Him, and find Him, though He be not far from every one of us." Without distinction of age, or rank, or nationality, or religious privilege, all are invited to come unto Him and live. "Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference." "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free." "The rich and poor meet together: the Lord is the Maker of them all." "The same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Acts 17:26, 27; Galatians 3:28; Proverbs 22:2; Romans 10:11-13. {DA 403.3} ..." - Desire of Ages, pages 399.1 - 403.3
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  16. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    We'll just have to agree to disagree on this matter.
     
  17. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  18. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    Was the 'woman at the well'; the "woman of Samaria"; in John 4 a Samaritan or an Israelite? There is a strong similarity between the two encounters.
     
  19. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    Adam Clarke has it wrong. The Greek word deprecating gentiles is a different form of the word "dog". The use of the word for "puppy" was not common among other Jews.

    Adam Clarke Commentary
    The children's bread - The salvation provided for the Jews, who were termed the children of the kingdom. And cast it to the κυναριοις, little dogs - to the curs; such the Gentiles were reputed by the Jewish people, and our Lord uses that form of speech which was common among his countrymen. What terrible repulses! and yet she still perseveres!
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    So then another example where the contrast is between Jew and Gentile. Are you changing your POV?
     
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