• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Challenging the Eschatological View that America is God's New Israel

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Gxg (G²), Mar 29, 2013.

  1. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

    +1,180
    Oriental Orthodox
    Private
    US-Others
    Shalom :)

    For anyone interested..

    It has been the case in the U.S that many have long advocated for the ideology that God somehow sees the U.S as a "New Israel" of sorts - predominately due to the viewpoint that the U.S was founded on Christian principles and that its expansion has arisen as a means of supernatural blessing.

    However, from what I've studied, it seems the U.S has never, at ANY point, been God’s covenant nation who operates with Divine sanction. That was reserved for Israel...and even then, the U.S has already had a wide range of things done in the name of the nation that've never been a part of God's heart ( more shared in #501 ).

    When you understand the roots of how things develop, it seems to make sense of many factors. Many, due to their eschatological view of a "Christian U.S" developing where a theocracy under God arises, seem to feel that the U.S needs to be fought for - and "brought back" to it's heritage.

    However, I wonder, if supporting a theocracy, if that theocracy others may want would support those who are Indigenious peoples/"First Nations" people who are believers. FOr it often seems that discussion of theocracy often leaves out the fact that many Native Americans and others are often not considered as those who'd be leading the way if they trusted in Christ.

    For more information, the Puritans originally came to America in order to gain freedom of religion, freedom from the persecution that they were experiencing at the hands of an antagonistic Church of England. And so they fled. In their fleeing they encountered all kinds of hardship and tribulation, and yet they endured and finally made it to the ‘Promised Land’. It was these kinds of experiences, and the relative success of establishing a new nation, that imbued Puritan pastors and theologians with the notion that Divine Providence had carried them into the new land of promise. Indeed, many (if not all) of the Puritans believed that they were truly the new Israel of God, and that they had been given Divine sanction to sack the native Americans (like the original Israel did with the Canaanites), and take their lands (manifest destiny)

    Many tend to have a postmillennial view of heritage that believes that America has its rootage in Divine favor and blessedness—as God’s covenant people [As a side note, the interesting thing about this is that most American's who appeal to this age as constituting a "Christian" heritage to our nation are not postmillennial, but premillennial dispensationalists, which is completely at odds with postmil thought]. And it is this kind of mindset that believes that America is exceptional, that is, because we have been blessed of God (as his covenant nation), and thus we can offer things to the rest of the world (even if that means that we, in a utilitarian and pragmatic way impose ourselves on other nations for the greater good; i.e. which is the preservation of God’s new Israel, America) that the rest of the world needs. By the logic of others, we are the dispensers of God’s covenant promises after all [​IMG] . But people fail to realize that other nations have been exceptional as well and it's theological error trying to assume that a nation being exceptional at many points is either exceptional at ALL points or "exceptional" according to the standards of the Lord. ....and as it concerns God rulling the nation, one would have to see a radical shift where God is honored at ALL points in order for any talk on theocracy established by men to be possible.



    A school of thought existing doesn't equate to it being historically valid or accurate. It simply means that it exists. And for anyone interested, there's actually a good book on the issue entitled "Between Babel and the Beast" addressing the issue very well (more here ).



    [​IMG]

    And for more, one should consider investigating the work of Roger Olson who has provided a mini and partial review of Peter Leithart’s book, Between Babel and the Beast. (more here ).Leithart challenges a religion that he (amongst others) has labeled Americanism (or the worship of America as God’s special nation, like the new Israel). Moreover, for others who've spoken on the issue. One is Soong-Chan Rah in his work The Next Evangelicalism: Releasing the Church from Western ... - Page 449..and another is Andrea Smith of Native Americans and the Christian Right: The Gendered Politics of Unlikely Alliances.

    As the Late Richard Twiss said best:



    If anyone here has any thoughts, I'd love to hear sometime....
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

    +1,180
    Oriental Orthodox
    Private
    US-Others
    God is faithful..
     
  3. PaladinValer

    PaladinValer Traditional Orthodox Anglican

    +1,108
    Anglican
    Single
    US-Others
    Antagonistic Church of England?

    With all due respect, it is the Puritans who were at fault. They wanted what they couldn't get, while being given full representation and voice, and instead of accepting the fullness of the faith, they rebelled, martyred the king and archbishop, and drove the Church underground...and the people HATED it so much that they asked for the Church and monarchy restored!

    The Puritans kicked themselves out.

    Now, with that aside taken care off...

    ...the idea that America is God's New Israel, depending on how you use the term "Israel", is either nothing more than 19th century ce-type Nationalism or, perhaps even worse, British Israelist racism and heresy. It may be even both. Either way, history has shown the extreme dangers associated with both and they have no place within orthodox Christianity.

    I am a good and proud citizen of my country, but I don't act like a haughty jerk about it like many sadly do. Each country contributes or should, and while American hegemony may be here to stay, it doesn't mean Americans should lord it over others. If anything, we should be preparing the world for a global-level hegemony instead of being selfish.
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,605
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Much ado about nothing. It is not an issue.

    Doug
     
  5. PaladinValer

    PaladinValer Traditional Orthodox Anglican

    +1,108
    Anglican
    Single
    US-Others
    Christian orthodoxy isn't an issue? The OP brings up a valid point.
     
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,605
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    "America is God's New Israel" is not an issue. Much ado about nothing. What is going on in Europe is a much bigger issue because the emergence of a ten king kingdom is something that is actually in bible prophecy.


    Doug
     
  7. YeShallTread

    YeShallTread Well-Known Member

    +174
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Republican
    God's Israel is the same Israel we have always been. Followers of God are His people.

    Today all of Israel, the house of Israel AND the house of Judah remain split but we will be joined into one stick in His hand.

    He scattered the house of Israel and they migrated to many places....one of which is certainly America. Today's Christians Are the house of Israel...either by blood lineage or adoption.
     
  8. interpreter

    interpreter Senior Member

    +129
    Anglican
    The Christian nations in NATO are God's new Israel. They are led by the US, the fourth horseman, founded by George Washington who rode a pale horse. Our weapons bring hell and death.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,605
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    :eek: I hope that you are not being serious.

    Doug
     
  10. PreachingChristCrucified

    PreachingChristCrucified Lutheran Church Missouri Synod

    +34
    Lutheran
    Private
    America is not the "new Israel". No one in their right mind believes that. The people of God are Israel.
     
  11. PaladinValer

    PaladinValer Traditional Orthodox Anglican

    +1,108
    Anglican
    Single
    US-Others
    Yes, it is; it is a corruption of Christian teaching.

    Except it is influencing American politics and actions in the wider world.

    No such thing.

    Exactly, and the Church is that Israel :)
     
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,605
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private

    There is no such thing as a end times ten king kingdom? I don't why you would think that. In Daniel 7 is the ten kings that will come out of the fourth kingdom, the Roman Empire. And in Revelation 17, when the beast comes to power, they in their kingdom will have power with the beast.

    The little horn will come out among the ten king kingdom of the former Roman Empire. The EU is primed for that kingdom being put into place.

    Daniel 7:

    23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
    24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
    25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

    Revelation 17

    12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
    13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
     
  13. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

    +2,452
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    /
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
  14. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

    +2,452
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    /
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
  15. dana b

    dana b Newbie

    +19
    Non-Denom
    Married
     
  16. dana b

    dana b Newbie

    +19
    Non-Denom
    Married


    He was healed from a cut with a knife.
     
  17. interpreter

    interpreter Senior Member

    +129
    Anglican
    in the coming millennium, which immediately follows the Battle of Ar Mageddon (now unfolding), 24 thrones will rule earth for Jesus.That would be the 23 Christan nations now in NATO plus one more.
     
  18. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

    +529
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    :confused:

    Who is it that thinks America is God's Israel anyway???
     
  19. PaladinValer

    PaladinValer Traditional Orthodox Anglican

    +1,108
    Anglican
    Single
    US-Others
    The Roman Empire is no more.

    This is nothing more than conspiracy theory.
     
  20. dana b

    dana b Newbie

    +19
    Non-Denom
    Married


    No it's more of a "contovercial theory."
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
Loading...