Jerry,
That vehicle is the New Blood Covenant Church of Jesus Christ, which is made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one body as the spiritual commonwealth of Israel.
It is symbolized as the Olive Tree in Romans chapter 11.
One must be grafted into the Olive Tree, according to the Apostle Paul.
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
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baberean2,
1. Israel's covenants are eternal as a nation separate from the new covenant for the church in the context of being physical at the head of the nations. Do you understand that or do you just like to ignore it? Israel has to be purged and not the church for the church is being trained now? Do you understand this or do you just like to ignore it?
2. Israel can be grafted back into its own olive tree but this doesn't alter the covenant promises to Israel the physical nation in the physical kingdom at the head of the nations and in charge of being the capitol over all the earth.
3. The olive tree is physical in people but basically spiritual in nature. Now you are trying to say that because they will be grafted back in again they are grafted into the body of Christ and therefore all their covenant promises are cancelled and given to the church. This is your position and you think that is the end all to it but as usual you are wrong.
4. You want to make this one sided as most people do that go to the extreme of a doctrine resulting from tunnel vision. The scriptures shows there is more than one side in this context. The bible says the covenant promises of Israel were eternal to begin which means unconditional but they were conditioned by obedience.
5. The gifts and callings are without repentance which means unconditional and they will come to pass with the obedience of the physical nation at the appointed time when they are purified and obedient for God will not rule with man without a holy heart. This is biblical fact of truth and if you say or disagree with the whole of scripture on this subject then you are leaving out the most important part and you end up with disharmony and contradiction to the scripture and that is not how you rightly divide the word and properly deduce the truth of the word.
6. The same holds truth for paradoxes in scripture. John said in 1 John 3 that whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin for his seed remaineth in him. In James 2 it says, if any man sins we have an advocate with the father who is the propitiation for our sins and not our sins only but for the whole world. This shows that both saint and sinner can sin. Not just one can be true alone but there has to be a context to understand what seems to be a contradiction. On the surface and in most people's comprehension we know we have the capacity to sin and all unrighteousness is sin which covers so much ground that most christians think it it completely impossible to not sin. In this context they both cannot be right.
7. A Truthful Person is not a Liar but a Truthful Person could tell a Lie! Why? The natures of saints and sinners are different but the possibility of a Truthful Person telling a lie is possible because we are not perfect in our knowledge and we are in a war and can be caught off guard at any time and act upon what is contrary to our nature. This is why God has forgiveness and restoration for believers.
8. The information for the grafting back in and the gentiles being grafted in being the church and that the nation of Israel comes back in they do and do spiritually. But you cannot leave out the rest of the information in the scriptures that says the opposite of which has Israel's gifts and callings in their role in the KOH being different from the church itself and it being eternal, otherwise it is a contradiction and Paul would have no reason to say the gifts and callings are without repentance and that it will happen at the time of the gentiles. It destroys the total picture of Israel's role in the KOH and annihilates their purpose for being purified and coming back into Christ from their backslidden condition. This is why God has not forgotten them and Paul said this and he was a jew and still understood the KOH message and the covenant promises concerning his fellow brethren.
9. To believe one side of your assessment is to ignore the other side which has the prophecies concerning Israel the physical nation in the last days before the restoration of all things. This is what you are doing whether intentional or not and that is not fair exegesis or proper hermeneutics and is proper jewish thinking and knowledge of the scriptures that believe in the death and resurrection message.
10. There is no reason for jews to be regathered back to their country and all Israel will be saved because their nation will be physically surrounded by the nations of the world at the battle of Armageddon. Christ will come out of heaven at the second coming as a warrior king to save Israel from becoming extinct as a physical nation with the heavenly saints who will all be a part of the church from Abel on to the tribulation saints. This means that the jewish remnant that believe and the rest of the nation preserved in the wilderness will be saved spiritually and physically so they can enter into the KOH.
11. The second coming is not the rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4:16-27 for Christ will come from heaven with the dead in Christ and not the living saints on earth. We who are alive and remain will be the living saints united with the Lord in the clouds to ever be with the Lord and changed in the twinkling of an eye.
12. The nature and purpose of both the rapture and the second coming are totally different just as the earthly calling of Israel and the heavenly calling of the church though we will be a part of the earthly KOH reign as well.
13. Why are you so stubborn on this point? Can you not understand the truth or you don't want it to be true because it cause you to be embarrassed? I have been wrong before on denominational beliefs growing up because of lack of knowledge and lack of understanding of context and improper hermeneutics.
14. You say that you don't believe God is a respect of persons but yet the perception of the timbre of your posts sounds like you just think it is almost abhorred to think that Israel should be at the head of the nations instead of the church. This is why those that admit in replacement theology are seen as anti-semitic. I am not saying you believe this in actuality or that you are anti-semitic but the perception seems to loom there.
15. Can you honestly say which is most likely probable of what you will say that you believe what you believe because you really believe that the program with Israel is over because they have to be grafted back in with the rest of the church and therefore proves that they are part of the church and the church will be physically at the head of the nations. Can you show me a scripture that gentile believers of the church will have part in the government of Israel as the head of the nations and ruling over the 12 tribes of Israel.
16. It is a fact that there will be a physical nation of Israel believers of the Jewish race and it is a fact that the physical jewish nation of the house of Israel and the tribe of Judah will be united as one stick.
17. It is a fact that the 12 apostles are physical jews and will rule over the physical tribes of the physical nation of Israel.
18. It is a fact that David will have physical governmental responsibilities in the theocracy on earth as King over all of the physical nation of real jews.
19. It is a fact that the physical nation of physical jews called Israel will be blessed among all nations and the seed of Abraham will flow out of Israel.
20. It is a fact that Jerusalem will be the jewish capitol in that day and the gentile nations will go to them to celebrate the feast.
21. Are you going to dismiss all these facts and still say and believe what is only your assessment and wrong hermeneutics and misunderstanding of the history and future of the covenants of Israel as well as plain statements of facts of it being eternal?
22. I really want to know how and why you would do such a thing that cannot hold water to the hard core facts of the context of historical promises and bringing them back and what the future prophetical promises say will happen etc. What is your true motive?
23. You try to make a big deal on me being a follower of Dispensation Darby when I have already stated I don't believe everything he says. Yet, at the same time you will post your berean teacher or whatever he is to prove your point. It appears to be an apparent contradiction of who is a follower of man's teaching. After all you are the one that made the assessment of me because I believe in dispensations and assumed I studied out Darby and yet you posted your teacher to prove your point which he had some things that were right because not all dispensations are necessarily with their assessments. Just because there is a school of thought of dispensationalism doesn't do away with the fact that there are periods of time of stewardships called dispensation or that the word is not in the bible. Bereans is recorded in the bible and we are to be like them to see whether or not if the person espousing truth or not but that doesn't guarantee that every berean will be right about every thing just because he investigates. It also doesn't mean there is denomination of bereans in the bible either anymore than any other denominational church though there are well meaning believers in most all the fellowships and denominations. One thing is for sure is that all believers are to be pentecostal believers as being filled with the HOLY SPIRIT!. Jerry kelso
