Challenge thread: Charles Darwin was racist... so what?

[Bradskii]

Nope I'd rather just speak in general terms

If it is 'very likely', then how about you take a shot at nominating one 'race'?

It is very likely that one race is more intelligent than the others.

 

[AV1611VET]

If it is 'very likely', then how about you take a shot at nominating one 'race'?

I nominate the human race!

 

[SkyWriting]

This comment does pop up every so often when the theory of evolution is discussed:
"Charles Darwin was racist, which means the theory of evolution is racist!"
Or
"The theory of evolution was used to justify slavery, which means that it's racist!"

(Twice in the same thread too!)

One thing I always note with this sort of tactic, to simply discredit evolution by saying that Darwin was racist or that it was used in racist ways, is that... the people who use it really do just leave it at that and say nothing else.

ETA: Since I forgot to state: Charles Darwin may have been the person who came up with the idea for what became the modern theory of evolution, but that does not mean that his personal views dictate what the theory of evolution says. They were his own personal views and his own personal views alone. Racism has scientifically be shown to be an idiotic view and the theory of evolution has been one of the driving forces in showing that.

So my challenge is: without using the writing of Charles Darwin (which means his own works on The Origin of Species or any other books) or anything from the 19th century when slavery was practiced by the western nations, show me an example of the theory of evolution being racist.

I don't want people using it to justify racism. I want something from the theory of evolution that shows it being inherently racist.

Some groups (races) are more fit or adaptable, while other groups are less fit and less adaptable to environmental conditions. It all depends on where they come from as to whether they're fit or not.

 

[Shemjaza]

I nominate the human race!

Agree.

Racism is stupid.

Whether you think we all go back to a few some bands and families in North Africa or a single couple in a garden, we are all the same kind, not defined but one outer appearance or recent history.

 

[Leaf473]

.

I have tenants in buildings in which I have an interest. Science does not have tenants.

You may mean tenets. Those are the
principles of a religion. Science is not religion and does not have tenets.

Chinese are not smarter. We just take education very seriously.

Good catch. I often use voice typing and it tends to go with the most likely word. I don't always catch it.

Looking it up, I agree that Tenet was not the best choice. But I do think it fits.
A... principle, or position held as part of a philosophy... or field of endeavor.
tenet - definition and meaning

Thanks for the heads up.
______________

Taking education more seriously is a possible explanation. As I alluded to, smartness is difficult to measure. One easily quantifiable test is a vocabulary test. But of course, that's only going to work for native speakers of the same language. Maybe you could give such a test to the tenets of your building?

 

[Astrid]

Agree.

Racism is stupid.

Whether you think we all go back to a few some bands and families in North Africa or a single couple in a garden, we are all the same kind, not defined but one outer appearance or recent history.

It's more like atavistic than stupid in origin.
Keeping it up is stupid.

 

[Shemjaza]

It's more like atavistic than stupid in origin.
Keeping it up is stupid.

Fair, but I think we've been in stupid territory for a number of generations now.

 

[DamianWarS]

how melanin helps you is based on your environment. higher amounts of melanin is better suited for hot climates where's there's lots of sun, lower amount are more suited for area that has seasonal sun activity. basically, darker skin doesn't synthesize vitamin D as efficiently as lighter skin and in temperate climates with seasonal sun activity may have vitamin D deficiency. Of course, lighter skin in hot climates can have too much exposure to sun which has its own negative impacts. One is not better than the other, they are just more suited for specific climates.

Different environments can have an impact on critical thinking and that gained knowledge is passed down from generation to generation so you don't have to reinvent the wheel every generation and the knowledge is just added on instead of starting over.

constant changing seasons with large differences are going to produce more aggressive critical thinking patterns than seasons with very little changes. For example, in order to survive the winter, you need to have a plan of what to do during the warmer months so that you don't starve or die of cold during the colder months. That plan requires critical thinking and those who are best at it survived in these climates and pass down their knowledge to the next generation for them to improve and build upon it.

However, if you're in the tropics living in a jungle with plenty of fruit-bearing trees you don't need to think about 6 months in advance, you just to think about what you need for that day to survive which has it's own skill sets but is not as demanding as planning out an entire year.

Even in these topical environments, farmers may have a critical thinking advantage over fishermen (or hunters). Although traditional communities would have people for different skills for the greater good of the community, isolated a fisherman goes where the fish are. They don't require a lot of planning ahead because they can fish to feed themselves for the day and the next day do the same whereas a farmer they require more planning so that while a crop is being planted another is being harvested so they don't go hungry. So there are a lot of reasons why critical thinking development is more aggressive in some environments over others. the more aggressive the critical thinking will lead to more progress and development in those areas. It doesn't make people or races from specific regions more or less superior but the environment can nuture critical thinking to such a degree that it may seem people from x region are on a different level.

In addition to this political ideologies may stimulate or sedate critical thinking. For example in communism people may be less or more ambitious then in capitalism simply from approaching problem solving with different motivations, one for the gain of the country, the other for the gain of self.

 

[Astrid]

In addition to this political ideologies may stimulate or sedate critical thinking. For example in communism people may be less or more ambitious then in capitalism simply from approaching problem solving with different motivations, one for the gain of the community/country, the other for the gain of self.

.

It's gain for self. Except a few like my old uncle late of the Red Guard. He still believes that stuff. Do NOT get him started.
Even if you don't understand Cantonese.

 

[Leaf473]

how melanin helps you is based on your environment. higher amounts of melanin is better suited for hot climates where's there's lots of sun, lower amount are more suited for area that has seasonal sun activity. basically, darker skin doesn't synthesize vitamin D as efficiently as lighter skin and in temperate climates with seasonal sun activity may have vitamin D deficiency. Of course, lighter skin in hot climates can have too much exposure to sun which has its own negative impacts. One is not better than the other, they are just more suited for specific climates.

Different environments can have an impact on critical thinking and that gained knowledge is passed down from generation to generation so you don't have to reinvent the wheel every generation and the knowledge is just added on instead of starting over.

constant changing seasons with large differences are going to produce more aggressive critical thinking patterns than seasons with very little changes. For example, in order to survive the winter, you need to have a plan of what to do during the warmer months so that you don't starve or die of cold during the colder months. That plan requires critical thinking and those who are best at it survived in these climates and pass down their knowledge to the next generation for them to improve and build upon it.

However, if you're in the tropics living in a jungle with plenty of fruit-bearing trees you don't need to think about 6 months in advance, you just to think about what you need for that day to survive which has it's own skill sets but is not as demanding as planning out an entire year.

Even in these topical environments, farmers may have a critical thinking advantage over fishermen (or hunters). Although traditional communities would have people for different skills for the greater good of the community, isolated a fisherman goes where the fish are. They don't require a lot of planning ahead because they can fish to feed themselves for the day and the next day do the same whereas a farmer they require more planning so that while a crop is being planted another is being harvested so they don't go hungry. So there are a lot of reasons why critical thinking development is more aggressive in some environments over others. the more aggressive the critical thinking will lead to more progress and development in those areas. It doesn't make people or races from specific regions more or less superior but the environment can nuture critical thinking to such a degree that it may seem people from x region are on a different level.

And does it not follow that an environment that selects for critical thinking would then also tend to produce changes in hereditary traits related to the brain, even if they are slight or difficult to measure?

 

[Astrid]

how melanin helps you is based on your environment. higher amounts of melanin is better suited for hot climates where's there's lots of sun, lower amount are more suited for area that has seasonal sun activity. basically, darker skin doesn't synthesize vitamin D as efficiently as lighter skin and in temperate climates with seasonal sun activity may have vitamin D deficiency. Of course, lighter skin in hot climates can have too much exposure to sun which has its own negative impacts. One is not better than the other, they are just more suited for specific climates.

Different environments can have an impact on critical thinking and that gained knowledge is passed down from generation to generation so you don't have to reinvent the wheel every generation and the knowledge is just added on instead of starting over.

constant changing seasons with large differences are going to produce more aggressive critical thinking patterns than seasons with very little changes. For example, in order to survive the winter, you need to have a plan of what to do during the warmer months so that you don't starve or die of cold during the colder months. That plan requires critical thinking and those who are best at it survived in these climates and pass down their knowledge to the next generation for them to improve and build upon it.

However, if you're in the tropics living in a jungle with plenty of fruit-bearing trees you don't need to think about 6 months in advance, you just to think about what you need for that day to survive which has it's own skill sets but is not as demanding as planning out an entire year.

Even in these topical environments, farmers may have a critical thinking advantage over fishermen (or hunters). Although traditional communities would have people for different skills for the greater good of the community, isolated a fisherman goes where the fish are. They don't require a lot of planning ahead because they can fish to feed themselves for the day and the next day do the same whereas a farmer they require more planning so that while a crop is being planted another is being harvested so they don't go hungry. So there are a lot of reasons why critical thinking development is more aggressive in some environments over others. the more aggressive the critical thinking will lead to more progress and development in those areas. It doesn't make people or races from specific regions more or less superior but the environment can nuture critical thinking to such a degree that it may seem people from x region are on a different level.

The advanced civilizations of Cambodia, Egypt and Mesoamerica or Peru developed in the tropics, including rain forest.

We don't necessarily see a lot of critical thinking in the Trump and 7th grade reading level USA.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

And does it not follow that an environment that selects for critical thinking would then also tend to produce changes in hereditary traits related to the brain, even if they are slight or difficult to measure?

How does an environment select for critical thinking?

 

[SelfSim]

How does an environment select for critical thinking?

From amongst a backdrop of uncorralled believers ...(?)

I'd say it selects for those capable of distinguishing a belief.

 

[rturner76]

Yeah, Darwin was racist but so were most Europeans at the time.

 

[rturner76]

The advanced civilizations of Cambodia, Egypt and Mesoamerica or Peru developed in the tropics, including rain forest.

We don't necessarily see a lot of critical thinking in the Trump and 7th grade reading level USA.

Most of those civilizations are in ruins or are 3rd world. I'd prefer to be a well-fed uneducated American than live around open sewage.

 

[Astrid]

Most of those civilizations are in ruins or are 3rd world. I'd prefer to be a well-fed uneducated American than live around open sewage.

I'm fine with well noitished and educated.

But never mind that. I was just pointing out that the conceit of
believing a demanding climate like that of Britain is key to intellectual development is not consistent with data.

The fantasy of easy living in the tropics, picking fruit and all is just that, a fantasy.

 

[rturner76]

I'm fine with well noitished and educated.

But never mind that. I was just pointing out that the conceit of
believing a demanding climate like that of Britain is key to intellectual development is not consistent with data.

The fantasy of easy living in the tropics, picking fruit and all is just that, a fantasy.

Truth

 

[Astrid]

Yeah, Darwin was racist but so were most Europeans at the time.

Make that most people now everywhere always.

 

[rturner76]

Make that most people now everywhere always.

Truth

 

[Skye1300]

And does it not follow that an environment that selects for critical thinking would then also tend to produce changes in hereditary traits related to the brain, even if they are slight or difficult to measure?

No. Certain ways of thinking and doing things and viewing the world can be taught from generation to generation as in culture, but it would not become genetic.