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Featured Cessationism: Tongues, Prophecy, and the Gift of Miracles Have Ceased.

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bible Highlighter, Jan 3, 2019.

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  1. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    I was just proving that I did write a book. If you want to read it fine; if not, fine. What verses are you talking about anyway. You've quoted a lot.
     
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Again, your book more than likely does not have the answer I seek (Which is a word for word commentary from the Continuationist view on 1 Corinthians 14:14-17, and 1 Corinthians 14:19).
     
  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I didn't ask you to prove it, though.
     
  4. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    I'll answer your question.
     
  5. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    I've been healed once and also have healed someone with a 3 day fast/prayer which was proven with x-rays. Also I was mentally healed after another 3 day fast. I've seen other miracles as well as received prophecy from spirits that came true, etc. It's perhaps desirable for some reason to want to believe that these things simply don't happen anymore, but I'm not sure why it's desirable to want to believe that :)
     
  6. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Can you give me a word for word commentary from the Continuationist view on 1 Corinthians 14:14-17, and 1 Corinthians 14:19?

    Thank you;
    And may God bless you today.
     
  7. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

    He is speaking in the Spirit, and he, himself, does not know what he is praying, let alone anyone who hears him.

    1 Corinthians 14:14-17, and 1 Corinthians 14:19?

    13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say? 17 For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.
    18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.


    Paul speaks in tongues more than all of them, but only to God. To people it would not benefit them, unless he also used the gift of interpretation of tongues. The tongues are God's words, spoken by the Spirit. It is His perfect will. If one doesn't understand what he is saying, it only builds up his spirit, but not his mind, and certainly no one around him. So in church he only prophesies, for the benefit of the church. And if someone does receive a message in tongues, it should only be a few and one must be able to interpret for the benefit of all.

    That is no way means one cannot pray in the Spirit. Or praise God in the Spirit as 120 did on the Day of Pentecost.

    There are two manifestations of speaking in tongues.

    The first is the sign to pray in the Spirit, alone. This ability is given to all who believe. Mark 16:16-18. The person does not know what he is saying, but the Spirit know.

    The second is the gift of diverse kinds of tongues. This is NOT given to all, but only a few in a congregation. Someone else, of themselves, must also display the gift of interpretation of tongues if it is to be used in church. If no interpreter of tongues is present, they must remain quiet and speak to themselves. This is why at the end of 1 Corinthians 12 it says "do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?" The answer is no. But even if no one in a congregation has one or both of these gifts, all can pray in the Spirit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    We are not talking about praying and fasting to heal others. We are talking about the early church gifts whereby a believer was able to speak to a person and they were instantly healed, or their clothes could heal others, or their shadow could heal others, etc.
     
  9. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Test Everything.
     
  10. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    First, to know what you believe, isn't it that you believe Paul is saying not to speak in tongues ever?
     
  11. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    Yeah I read the scriptural references that were used to suggest that these things don't happen anymore, and they seemed very vague to me. Did I get that wrong?
     
  12. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Its not desirable, it doesnt tickle the ears.
     
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  13. Foxfyre

    Foxfyre Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is how I see it. I do believe that spiritual gifts are just as active today as they have ever been. It is only our persistent logic/reason/indoctrination/unwillingness to believe that hinders or stifles them these days. It hinders or stifles them in a way that probably didn't exist much in Jesus of Nazareth's or the Apostle Paul's time on Earth.

    Using ICor3:8-10 as evidence that tongues, prophecies etc. are no more simply cannot omit 'knowledge' from that passage and be intellectually honest. And since I doubt that any of us think we possess no knowledge, we have to logically allow that everything else is still with us too.

    Paul's counsel in his letters to the churches I saw as a) admonishing those who felt pride and boastfulness in their gifts as somehow making them superior over those who didn't manifest the same gifts and b) acknowledging that when we meet Jesus face to face and know all truth, tongues, prophecy etc. will no longer exist because there would be no point. A reasonable conclusion.
     
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  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    You have to take the whole chapter into account when you read this verse. Otherwise, you are taking this verse out of context. Paul here is criticizing the Corinthians for speaking in tongues without an interpreter.

    Let all things be done unto edifying." (1 Corinthians 14:26).

    Here are the commands for speaking in tongues:
    1. Let him that speaks in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful (1 Corinthians 14:13-14).
    2. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). The spirits of the prophets [the speakers in tongues] are subject to the prophets [the interpreters]. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. (1 Corinthians 14:32-33).
    Prophesying is done for the purpose of edifying the church.

    "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification," (1 Corinthians 14:3).

    But he that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks to edify themselves.

    "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church." (1 Corinthians 14:4).

    "Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church." (1 Corinthians 14:12).

    Paul is telling us to seek to edify the church and not to edify ourselves.
     
  15. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Knowledge in 1 Corinthians 13 is in reference to the "Gift of Knowledge" that certain early believers had. This would be the knowledge given by the Spirit to speak as Stephen did before he was martyred or to write Holy Scripture like Peter, and Paul, etc.

    The only spiritual knowledge we are given is the Bible. No more knowledge can be added to the Bible during the time of our faith under the New Covenant while we are alive here on this Earth. This gift of knowledge has ceased with the close of Revelation (Whereby we now have a completed Bible). New knowledge from God has now ceased because we have all the knowledge that we can handle with a completed Bible in our hands today.
     
  16. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    That's what I saw when reading the references, that Jesus would end it upon ending the earth or something to that effect.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I used to think that way, but Scripture has shown me otherwise. It's not an easy thing to accept. Many like the idea of chasing after the miracles instead of the heart of the Miracle Maker. Jesus criticized those he fed with the miracle of the many loaves and the fishes and He pointed them to seek after Himself (Who is the Bread of Life). They wanted more physical food (Which would be Him doing more miracles for them to be amazed by them).

    Jesus told Thomas that blessed are they who do not see and yet believe. I believe Jesus is prophetically speaking of a time when miracles would cease and men of God would come to trust in Him by faith without seeing any kind of miracles.
     
  18. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    That's simply not true, you can look around and see the advances in science and medicine, and it's simply obvious that is a gift of Knowledge from God :) God has blessed the earth.
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    For today: The greatest miracle of all is in accepting Jesus and in receiving a new changed heart and in seeking to obey and follow the Lord Jesus Christ (overcoming their sin).
     
  20. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    You're making the assumption that during the miracles I witnessed that I was seeking after them, in fact they were more of a burden to fast for 3 days. I would have rather have ate. Simply put, the gift of miracles I have witnessed in my life:) Which is why I testified of it. Of course I didn't perform the miracles, but God acted when I sought him in prayer and fasting. And he glorified himself to me and others. Is there something wrong with God glorifying himself to people thru these things in your mind?
     
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